RE: Ayn Rand you big Sub!!!

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Elisabella -> RE: Ayn Rand you big Sub!!! (10/26/2009 12:45:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SilentSpark OK... Please don't tell me I'm the only one who get turn on reading the Fountainhead. I mean... the idealism and art and totally dominate hero Howard Roark and his relationship with perfect sub Dominique... Even Ayn Rand herself admitted, Dominque is the woman for someone like Howard Roark (AKA perfect sub for perfect dom). Is that how you see human relationship, Ms. Rand? LOL...if nothing else, Ms Rand definitely has a huge rape fantasy, just look at the first sex scene between Roark and Dominque. and the time when Dominque went to Roarks apartment, and telling him she'll try her best to destroy him, I was completely in shock when I read it. How could something like this slipped into general public and no one scream "KINKY~~~~" This is more kinky than cuffs and ropes and all that leather combined!!! this mental kinky~~~ I have always wondering why a strong woman like Ayn Rand end up in a long lasting relationship with some unknown actor, and from her notes I've read, she really loved him. Now that I think of it, he's probably a huge Dom!!! OK OK... Don't get me wrong, I love the book for its idealism, for its romanticism, for the tight writing style, for the vivid characters, and the underlying philosophical ideas. But numerous people have written endless essays about it, I'm sure they can do a better job in literary analysis. I just want to say, if there's something called "intellectual porn", this is it. Thank you Ayn Rand~~~ haha, your book is totally genius on multiple levels, we don't have books like this nowadays... Now I'll move on to Atlas Shrugged. Oh my God I know! The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged are two of my favourite books, and they are so erotic to me. I love that someone else feels the same way.

Elisabella -> RE: Ayn Rand you big Sub!!! (10/26/2009 12:47:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucienne quote: ORIGINAL: SilentSpark wow... I didn't know Rand is like that... Now I start to understand the meaning of "inner circle"... LOL... Her book is a bit too idealistic. And if you ask me, it's like Emperor's new clothes in reverse, if I say "no one can be like Howard Roark", then I'll automatically get categorized into "losers". Still, it's a fun book to read, and some of the speeches are very well written. Toohey is just so charmingly evil. Ayn Rand want to write like Victor Hugo, or at least, that's what she loved, romanticism. But compare to Hugo, her writings lack that humanitarian touch. She doesn't allow weakness or any "lesser human emotion". She saw the world in black and white absolute, and that's something I can not agree with. If I may be so presumptuous, I'm going to tell you in advance that you do not have to read all the way through the "This is John Galt speaking" chapter. She beats that horse into glue. I think Ayn Rand is a fun read. (And Dagny is a richer character than Dominique). Her heroes and heroines typify a boldness of character and commitment to principle that many readers seek to nourish in themselves. But, as you note, her world is not the real world. And people who get too carried away by her narrative tend to misunderstand their place in the real world. Nothing wrong with a little self-indulgent fantasy, as long as you recognize that it is fantasy. So, yeah, fuck people who brand you a "loser" for realizing Howard Roark could not exist as a real human being. A guy has to be pretty hot and exceptional in other ways in order for me to tolerate an overly positive opinion of Ayn Rand. Heh. Seconded. I've read the book three times, never once read that whole speech. It's a shame her editor wasn't more dominant, because that chapter really needed to be sliced and diced.

Elisabella -> RE: Ayn Rand you big Sub!!! (10/26/2009 12:50:31 AM)
quote: Reading littlewonders post begs the question : is it still a rite of passage for some percentage of college kids to go through a Rand phase? I know it was in past generations, including my own, but would the average college student even recognise her name, if asked? I'm guessing the higher level of education the more likely that students would be familiar? I definitely did...I'm 26 so I guess I'm not the current generation but still. Though when I was in college there was only a small percentage of people interested in libertarian ideas...the trend in my generation was to go through a Chomsky phase.

Elisabella -> RE: Ayn Rand you big Sub!!! (10/26/2009 12:52:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder Everytime I hear about Ayn Rand I think of college kids who think they're all sophisticated, educated and intelligent, who think they're now part of some kind of elite group lol..... Yeah...Ayn Rand does nothing for me and leaves me cold and bored to be honest. That's how I feel about Noam Chomsky [:D] Haha me too! He was the big thing when I was in college and I was just like...um...yeah. And I love to read, too.

Level -> RE: Ayn Rand you big Sub!!! (10/26/2009 3:22:27 AM)
[;)] I see more "cool" people with their noses in the air and a copy of Chomsky in their hand, than Rand. At least I got some amount of pleasure reading her, Chomsky simply left me with fewer brain cells.

hermioneinchains -> RE: Ayn Rand you big Sub!!! (10/27/2009 10:29:13 PM)
Thoroughly enjoyed the rape scene in The Fountainhead, and you'll like Atlas Shrugged even more. Don't listen to the judgmental stuff in this thread - they're just jealous that you can still be excited by a chapter in a book :) Enjoy the hell out of it.

Hierodule -> RE: Ayn Rand you big Sub!!! (10/27/2009 11:08:21 PM)
I can watch an episode of Startrek and really enjoy it, but I'm not wearing spock ears to a convention. I don't judge the people who do, but I can't relate to them either. I enjoyed reading Rand's books. Except for the Gault speech, which was almost unreadable, Rands novels read like brain candy, romance novels or fantasy. They are easily digestible with satisfying , if predictable, structure. I don't see them as a guide to real life and I can't relate to people who do. Having said that, the rape scene in fountainhead got me HOT! And Atlas shrugged is a utopian fantasy that is beautiful in its imposibility. Sorry Ayn, you can't have a productive society without workers. We aren't all creative supermen, but that doesn't make us leaches!

Corpsbride -> RE: Ayn Rand you big Sub!!! (10/29/2009 1:26:10 PM)
...aaaannndd yours truly will never consider The Fountainhead in the same light again. I'm inspired to do a re-reading.

Elisabella -> RE: Ayn Rand you big Sub!!! (10/30/2009 3:44:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hierodule Having said that, the rape scene in fountainhead got me HOT! And Atlas shrugged is a utopian fantasy that is beautiful in its imposibility. Sorry Ayn, you can't have a productive society without workers. We aren't all creative supermen, but that doesn't make us leaches! Somehow I don't think the point of Atlas Shrugged was 'creative vs. workers' but rather 'creation through work' vs. 'doing the bare minimum to be socially acceptable.' Just my reading of it, of course, but I don't think she would have had John Galt working as a short-order cook in middle America if his only purpose was to demonstrate innovative genius. Er...I think that was Galt working in the diner, I haven't read the book in ages, but I know one of those 'creative supermen' was working as a cook in the diner creating perfect omelettes and proud of himself for it.

abuddingdom -> RE: Ayn Rand you big Sub!!! (10/30/2009 6:53:54 AM)
Thats one of the many messages, Elisabella, though they are all of the same vein. She also had no use for who she percieved as weaklings and the governments who enabled them to not only feed off the ambitious and creative but to bring them down. Another part of the book's message of course was individualism, but hers is a cruel cold type of it. Throughout the story her loyal assistant(I forget his name) was quizzed and unkowingly and unmercifully used by Galt. He was fiercely loyal to Dagny (also likely in unrequited love with her) and just as importantly loyal to her ideals but he was cast aside&forgotten as she flew off into the sunset with her three lovers and supermen. Relevently, Rand had little loyalty to anyone in her real life if they were the least bit in her way. and Galt worked for Dagny's railroad company in order to stay close to her. It was one of the other above the rest of us genius supermen who worked in the diner. He also provided her with one of her many clues to uncovering the conspiracy - the best cigarette she'd ever smoked(of COURSE it was the best cigarette she'd ever smoked, lololo!) stamped with the dollar sign. This is an enjoyable discussion, & I recall fondly both times I read Atlas. This is the kind of thing which sometimes inspires me to pick something up again. Watching the credits of movies is dangerous - I so often have to seek out the source of a movie, whether book, story, play, historical events, even comic books. But : I have to much to read and not enough time. I WON'T go back for another re-read of this book. I have to much to read and not enough time, I WON'T........(repeating to myself).

Hierodule -> RE: Ayn Rand you big Sub!!! (10/30/2009 12:46:29 PM)
quote: . Throughout the story her loyal assistant(I forget his name) was quizzed and unkowingly and unmercifully used by Galt. He was fiercely loyal to Dagny (also likely in unrequited love with her) and just as importantly loyal to her ideals but he was cast aside&forgotten as she flew off into the sunset with her three lovers and supermen. Relevently, Rand had little loyalty to anyone in her real life if they were the least bit in her way.. Yes, the end, where he is stuck in the chaos of the wilderness after all he did for her really made me sad. Also, call me a liberal, but I think the bare minimum is all some people are capable of. Whether becasue of a lack physical ability, lack of education, low social status or just becasue some people are not creative in their work. Those people are people too and they serve a purpose in society. Not all work is enjoyable but it still has to get done. I don't think you have to enjoy it to be respected for doing it. If you are willing to put in the hours you are holding up your end of the bargin. Some people work in fast food becasue its the only job they can get. Do I expect them to dedicate their life to making me the perfect hamburger? Hell no. Do they owe us a living?? Of course they do! of course they do! Owe us a living? Of course they fucking do!

Lucienne -> RE: Ayn Rand you big Sub!!! (10/30/2009 12:51:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hierodule quote: . Throughout the story her loyal assistant(I forget his name) was quizzed and unkowingly and unmercifully used by Galt. He was fiercely loyal to Dagny (also likely in unrequited love with her) and just as importantly loyal to her ideals but he was cast aside&forgotten as she flew off into the sunset with her three lovers and supermen. Relevently, Rand had little loyalty to anyone in her real life if they were the least bit in her way.. Yes, the end, where he is stuck in the chaos of the wilderness after all he did for her really made me sad. The problem with people who get carried away with Ayn Rand is that they mistakenly assume that they would be invited to Galt's Gulch. The treatment of that character suggests otherwise. That doesn't change the fact that having a bracelet made of Reardon metal would be hot.

Moonhead -> RE: Ayn Rand you big Sub!!! (10/30/2009 4:22:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucienne quote: ORIGINAL: Hierodule quote: . Throughout the story her loyal assistant(I forget his name) was quizzed and unkowingly and unmercifully used by Galt. He was fiercely loyal to Dagny (also likely in unrequited love with her) and just as importantly loyal to her ideals but he was cast aside&forgotten as she flew off into the sunset with her three lovers and supermen. Relevently, Rand had little loyalty to anyone in her real life if they were the least bit in her way.. Yes, the end, where he is stuck in the chaos of the wilderness after all he did for her really made me sad. The problem with people who get carried away with Ayn Rand is that they mistakenly assume that they would be invited to Galt's Gulch. The treatment of that character suggests otherwise. That doesn't change the fact that having a bracelet made of Reardon metal would be hot. That's the problem with the libertarian mindset in a nutshell, isn't it? A lot of the people who defend it the most feverishly are the ones who are going to completely fucked over if we should revert back to feudalism.

Nemesys -> RE: Ayn Rand you big Sub!!! (11/1/2009 3:52:31 PM)
"Tell me what a man finds sexually attractive, and I will tell you his entire philosophy of life.” Perhaps that says it all, re: Ayn and BDSM.

Nemesys -> RE: Ayn Rand you big Sub!!! (11/1/2009 4:00:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: Lucienne quote: ORIGINAL: Hierodule quote: . Throughout the story her loyal assistant(I forget his name) was quizzed and unkowingly and unmercifully used by Galt. He was fiercely loyal to Dagny (also likely in unrequited love with her) and just as importantly loyal to her ideals but he was cast aside&forgotten as she flew off into the sunset with her three lovers and supermen. Relevently, Rand had little loyalty to anyone in her real life if they were the least bit in her way.. Yes, the end, where he is stuck in the chaos of the wilderness after all he did for her really made me sad. The problem with people who get carried away with Ayn Rand is that they mistakenly assume that they would be invited to Galt's Gulch. The treatment of that character suggests otherwise. That doesn't change the fact that having a bracelet made of Reardon metal would be hot. That's the problem with the libertarian mindset in a nutshell, isn't it? A lot of the people who defend it the most feverishly are the ones who are going to completely fucked over if we should revert back to feudalism. While Objectivism (decision making as a result of reason) has nothing to do with Feudalism (decision making as a result of force), it might be true that those who support a more objective way of running society might get fucked over as a result. Of course, the problem is that they're going to be fucked over anyway. Given a choice, I'd go with the merits of reason over group-think collectivism any day. I wish you well. - N "Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men. "

Hierodule -> RE: Ayn Rand you big Sub!!! (11/1/2009 4:13:34 PM)
Personally, I'm for community. I'm not a doormat but I dig altruism for altruism's sake. I'm one of those people who pays the toll for the car behind me just cause it makes me smile. Privacy is boring. GIVE ME THE TRIBE!!! ooga boooga! jumps the fire

DagnyTaggart -> RE: Ayn Rand you big Sub!!! (11/1/2009 4:51:21 PM)
You're definitely not alone [:D]

Hierodule -> RE: Ayn Rand you big Sub!!! (11/1/2009 5:06:11 PM)
Ha! NICE ONE! [sm=applause.gif] subtle jokes tickle my kitty.

auburnvixen -> RE: Ayn Rand you big Sub!!! (11/1/2009 5:44:46 PM)
The best way to tackle John Galt's speech is to skip over it lightly while reading the book, and then go back and read it by itself later. It's much better that way. I wouldn't cut any of it because it's a perfect outline of Rand's philosophy. The one problem with it is that it slows down the narrative of the book. Even after all these years I love the book. Does knowing that it's an impossible Utopia make it unreadable? Not for me. I also find that Barbara Branden's excellent biography of Ayn Rand really humanizes her. The woman had her own dreams and standards that she herself could not achieve...kinda like most of the rest of us.

Hierodule -> RE: Ayn Rand you big Sub!!! (11/1/2009 5:53:26 PM)
Just to Clarify: I loved both Atlas Shrugged and Fountainhead. I could not put them down. But I read them as fantasy/romance novels. The speech was ths only part that lagged. I understand that it outlines her philosopy. It happens to be a philosophy that I whole heartedly disagree with. That does not diminish the affection and admiration I felt for her characters. I don't believe in elfs, but I do like fairy tales. Does that make sense?

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