RE: Slave VS. Submissive

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RE: Slave VS. Submissive - 10/29/2009 8:51:10 AM

porcelaine

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Joined: 7/24/2006
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caring,

it always a pleasure to read you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal

Eh. Talented people do. It goes with the territory, I think. ;)

I really have a fetish for having my ego shattered in non-destructive ways these days. It's like an addictive drug. The humility one is my favorite thing to experience in a bdsm relationship.

can i quote you on the talented line when i try and use it next time to lessen my offenses? *lol*

i utilized religion to address humility. i've used different perspectives on the subject. at present i'm working through the spiritual laws again as i see a massive shift coming about. while i enjoy the humility, the surrender would be my nirvana. it is the thing i crave the most.

quote:

Nods. That makes sense for someone who likes or loves achivement...and who is also good at it! I am not very driven, in fact I have big fears of failure about everything, so the challenging item, above, is often very challenging to me. What I like about that sort of dominant is that I am very curious and challenges or a challenging personality certainly do keep things "interesting."

exactly, addressing a fear of failure is important. a lot of overachievers have it. i'd kick the crap out of myself for screwing up. my self abuse was always worse than anything someone else could heap upon me. but for the most part i've stopped doing it. when i catch the thoughts creeping up in my head i refute them or speak with a close confidant that reminds me it is all bs and to knock it off.

however, having someone that wouldn't drive me would drive me insane. i suppose in some respects it would be a larger challenge to be forced to slow down and settle. for Him to say enough, you don't need to do this or that. but my personality is such i pair best with people that are like myself. i've tried the other route and it led to incessant frustration on my end. when He places huge demands on me i'm happiest.

this is one of the things that reveals itself early on in a prospect. i notice it in my response to Him. how the words flow and the manner they're crafted. if i'm stretching or merely drawing from what i know instead. i need to be stretched and taken new places. i prefer Someone that is light years ahead of me.

porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to CaringandReal)

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Post #: 101

RE: Slave VS. Submissive - 10/29/2009 10:10:23 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
I stand corrected on all counts.

Another brilliant and deeply thought out response. I'm so impressed. Sigh.

Uh, help me out here... but I AGREED with you and now I'm wrong for doing so? Am I not tracking this program somehow?

quote:

Why are you so angry so much lately and so miltantly anti-master-slave? If it's too personal don't answer, but it's pretty offensive and grating to hear you constantly attacking a sort of relationship I've loved and thrived in for many years. (shrug) I don't grasp what's going on with you.

And how did you get that I am anti M/s? Are you confusing me with someone else? Regardless, I can tell you that I am not anti ANY relationship type. I'm pro smiles. If someone's relationship is generating lots of smiles, I am very much in favor of it. I have no particular leanings towards M/s, D/s, Vanilla, poly, monogamous, or anything else that I'm aware of.

If you were referring to my anger from a few weeks ago, it had nothign to do with M/s. It had to do with what I perceive as a general tendency on collarme to find the negative in things... something I referred to as a Jerry Springer-esque attitude. I'm actually kind of astonished that you found a negative spin on "I stand corrected". I mean seriously... the phrase means "I was wrong, you were right."

To clarify my posts on this thread, I wasn't anti anything. I just felt that the OP needed to know that there were no definitions for these terms and so she'd need to ask the people making assertions about her slave nature what they mean by it -- just as the responses on this thread indicated. But you were correct, that was not the question the OP asked (hence my standing corrected).

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to CaringandReal)

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Post #: 102

RE: Slave VS. Submissive - 10/29/2009 10:28:23 AM

porcelaine

Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

If you were referring to my anger from a few weeks ago, it had nothign to do with M/s. It had to do with what I perceive as a general tendency on collarme to find the negative in things... something I referred to as a Jerry Springer-esque attitude.

Jeff,

i think you'll find similar behavior expressed on other sites, including chat rooms. it is merely the nature of the beast and the result of personalities mingling in a manner that isn't always cohesive. however, what i can control is my expression and reaction to what is said and written on my end. for me it matters not what is inferred at present, but how i choose to respond to such. attempting to analyze what i might perceive as hostile, negative, or antagonistic is futile. much can be disguised in keystrokes and in reality you cannot know the persons intended meaning without conversing. whether they elect to be honest is a mystery of course. i believe we each get something different from the site and must remain cognizant of this. doing so seems to alter ones thinking and keep it properly aligned. you find much flies over your head or is quietly ignored. life has enough stress without seeking additional headaches, particularly virtual ones.

porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to leadership527)

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Post #: 103

RE: Slave VS. Submissive - 10/29/2009 10:44:05 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine
i think you'll find similar behavior expressed on other sites, including chat rooms. it is merely the nature of the beast and the result of personalities mingling in a manner that isn't always cohesive. however, what i can control is my expression and reaction to what is said and written on my end. for me it matters not what is inferred at present, but how i choose to respond to such. attempting to analyze what i might perceive as hostile, negative, or antagonistic is futile. much can be disguised in keystrokes and in reality you cannot know the persons intended meaning without conversing. whether they elect to be honest is a mystery of course. i believe we each get something different from the site and must remain cognizant of this. doing so seems to alter ones thinking and keep it properly aligned. you find much flies over your head or is quietly ignored. life has enough stress without seeking additional headaches, particularly virtual ones.

I completely agree (and just for the reading impaired, that means I think you're right so in theory we shouldn't have an argument over this *laughs* -- although I've been recently surprised by that sort of thing).

Howsabout we don't hijack this thread though :)

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to porcelaine)

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Post #: 104

RE: Slave VS. Submissive - 10/29/2009 10:59:02 AM

alittleevil

Posts: 235
Joined: 10/25/2007
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quote:

If any of the following apply to you, you are just not yet ready for a life of real slavery:

                                              {edited list follows}

   * I have set my own "limits", like any "normal" person should and they must be respected!
   * I don't want my hard earned career experience/education to just go to waste; I need an Owner who will allow me to keep my career/get a career in my chosen profession/let me stay in school.
   * I have dependants (children, relatives, et cetera) that I cannot abandon.
   * I don't want to give up any of my friends or risk losing contact with my family.
   * I have a "vanilla" interest (or two, or more) that I simply will not give up.
   * I would never allow my Owner to share me with someone else.
   * I would never be willing to share my Owner with anyone else, after all - they know I am the jealous type; I would insist on being my Owner's only slave!
   * It's not like it's 'real' slavery anyway, you know: it's more like 'role-playing'; isn't it?
       * I am a "non-BDSM slave" and I do not want any Owners who practice/enjoy any type or variety of BDSM.
   * I have rights, you know, just like everyone else; and I would never give any of my rights up!

I'm always of two minds when i read this, and things like it.

On the one hand, i nod along because, yes, once one becomes a slave (of the variety i am most personally familiar with), all of this and more becomes "fair game" so to speak. A slave's free choice about all of this is removed and subject to the whim and will of the Master/Mistress, once one is enslaved (Which is very different from the point at which one says "i am your slave" or "You are my slave"). You takes your chances and hopes for the best when you "choose" the one who would own you.

So yes, seeking slavery without a clear understanding of the possibility of the loss of your free choices/preferences WRT to the above is not wise. People should think about this, long and hard. It may turn out that a would-be slave's life circumstances simply will not allow them to seek slavery, no matter how much it might be longed for.

BUT, on the other hand, the onus of all this is not on the slave. Which those lists make it seem. Seeking slavery while hanging onto one or more of the aforementioned 'requirements' is not all that uncommon. What happens next is up to the master.

quote:

* I am [insert: race/creed/gender/sexual preference here] and I am only interested in an Owner who is [insert: race/creed/gender/sexual preference here].

Captivity-slavery might be a hot fantasy, and some people may successfully find other people willing to realize these fantasies via auctions and such. However, one big problem with a priori removing wanting the desire for choice of "master" from would-be slaves in this way is that it is unlikely that said "slave" is going to find anything like enslavement by just giving her- or himself to the first "Master" that comes along, due to the relative scarcity of people both truly interested in and able to keep a slave.

The others were left out cause they have little to do with slavery, in my view. People should be free to seek their bliss.

Peace,
aj

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RE: Slave VS. Submissive - 10/29/2009 5:18:26 PM

DowagerMum

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Joined: 10/28/2009
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I know a woman whose friends say that she is so submissive she can't say "Boo!" to the dog *chuckle* That pretty well spells slave to me! *S*

Dowager Mum

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RE: Slave VS. Submissive - 10/29/2009 6:25:30 PM

elleX

Posts: 161
Joined: 10/24/2009
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Submissive women comes with a desire to please and a need for a deep understanding and a right to set limits , Under certains curcomstances that same women can become a slave . Meetting the right Dominant who want to invest her , and with the trust and intimacy that comes with a strong emotional bondage , that same women will give all she is and all she has, she then become His slave there will no longer what we call limits ,,

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RE: Slave VS. Submissive - 10/29/2009 6:43:26 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: supportourtroops

What do you consider to be a slave VS. a submissive? I have always called and considered myself a submissive as I have limits. The DOMs I meet always tell me I'm a slave to the bone. I've asked and their comments are, "I know a slave when I see one, and, you have slave written all over you"
I would like to know how you decide and your honest opinions on the difference.
Thank You,
s.

Before slavery - strike that - before I acknowledged slavery, I still attempted to retain control over certain areas, most notable among those was my own determination of how I could & should be of service to Himself. I had already been doing the bottom thing, then the submissive thing for several years, so I just *knew* how to do it all right.

I also figured that I was perfectly capable of walking out the door anytime I felt like it and throw the relationship into the pile of *well, THAT didn't work*. It was only later, after several years serving in his house, when I realized how cheap talk really is and that I, literally, could not walk out that door without losing a core part of who I am and that I had no choice but to serve the way he required me to serve. It took a while, but after accepting the reality and truth of who and what I am to him, I was able to let go of the fail safes that had once seemed so important to me. Those little safety nets that I thought I needed so as to retain some sense of identity outside of his influence were really nothing more than walls and masks.

There are no areas outside of his influence despite the well-meaning pixels who are bound and determined to 'prove' either lunacy or liar are more accurate labels than slave for me. :;chuckles:: I've been told I have the 'right' to leave, it's in the Constitution, I have limits and choices and options in slavery or that slavery doesn't exist at all since it's illegal (although, technically.. *being a slave* isn't illegal.. it's just owning a slave that is covered under the 13th of the US Constitution and even that has an exception). Others have determined that I have a choice to let go of it at a whim, in a fit, on a dare or even beg release and if denied, go ahead and grant release to myself.

If this wasn't the Internet, it would seriously boggle my mind that someone else is so sure fire set on what I am or am not capable of doing, what rights I do or do not have. You'd think they'd been living in my skin for the last 49 years when the only one who's been here all this time has been me.. and, of course, the voices in my head. :) .. well, that's how I know the difference. Submissive speaks with a California cool and the odd Texas twang for me .. slavery is all Bronx, New York which, surprise, surprise, is where Himself was whelped. ::grins::

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

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RE: Slave VS. Submissive - 10/29/2009 7:16:35 PM

AnnaOfAramis

Posts: 523
Joined: 7/30/2008
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quote:

I know a woman whose friends say that she is so submissive she can't say "Boo!" to the dog *chuckle* That pretty well spells slave to me! *S*

Actually Ma'am, I've often found the reverse to be true. I've known very submissive, timid people who were unable to obey the simplest of things and I wondered if it was lack of strength or what (I'm still puzzling on that) and I have found that many slaves when left unmastered are naturally strong, independent, stubborn, rebellious, and darn right hard to manage. But somehow, we need to seek out someone who can handle that and tame us, someone stronger than ourselves. It seems like a bit of an oxymoron doesn't it?

Well wishes,
anna

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RE: Slave VS. Submissive - 10/29/2009 11:30:16 PM

SubmissiveOinker

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Joined: 10/23/2009
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I've noticed that the terms slave and submissive are often said as many would form from an opinion, people may agree to disagree within this topic.

From my perspective, I may start submitting to someone as a submissive, obviously I'd have limits as the relationship between the two of us continues to develop. Over time I may give myself over more so, completely as a slave. It really depends on the relationship between those involved, as the are just another way to label themselves. However I suspose the best way to label myself is as a pet;)

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