Slave VS. Submissive

Slave VS. Submissive (Full Version)

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supportourtroops -> Slave VS. Submissive (10/24/2009 12:14:39 PM)
What do you consider to be a slave VS. a submissive? I have always called and considered myself a submissive as I have limits. The DOMs I meet always tell me I'm a slave to the bone. I've asked and their comments are, "I know a slave when I see one, and, you have slave written all over you" I would like to know how you decide and your honest opinions on the difference. Thank You, s.

AquaticSub -> RE: Slave VS. Submissive (10/24/2009 12:17:24 PM)
I don't really think there is a difference, not in a way I can meaningfully define for anyone not in a relationship with me. They are relationship terms that speak to the people involved and I can't define that for other people any more than I can tell someone what being a wife is beyond the legal requirement.

sweetsub1957 -> RE: Slave VS. Submissive (10/24/2009 12:40:28 PM)
~Fast Reply~ I've been told I have "a slave's heart," but I call myself a "submissive" cause "slave" sounds to extreme and scary to me. But, this either/or debate will go on forever. There's lots about it if you use the search function. I think it's really just a matter of how the people in the relationship define it.

MasterJack53 -> RE: Slave VS. Submissive (10/24/2009 12:42:34 PM)
ok heres what I determine to b e the difference. A slave gives up the right to say no or set limits. she is held till she is released oir given away. a submissive is allowed to say no, allowed to set limits, and can end the association when she wants. I a strange Master because I like to call my collared woman a slave but I give her the rights of a submissive. thats just samntics. I hope this helps. Master Jack

sofiasparkles -> RE: Slave VS. Submissive (10/24/2009 12:54:17 PM)
i see myself as far too rebellious to ever classify as a slave... and i can be a good little sub when properly motivated.. but i love resistance and the possibility of back and forth powerplay. so i guess i'm more switch than anything, but i don't fit into the hard-lined traditional roles or labels, and i'm okay with that. :)

devilishpixie -> RE: Slave VS. Submissive (10/24/2009 1:27:03 PM)
To me a person can be both, I think one can evolve from a submissive into a slave with the right person. I personally don't worry about labels, although I will admit when Nubian muscle says, my slave I love you. It makes my toes curl.

NihilusZero -> RE: Slave VS. Submissive (10/24/2009 2:10:40 PM)
Expectations and the degree of surrender. A slave should have no facet which is not surrendered unto the M-type. The only marginal framework is her having decided that, prior to entering the relationship/dynamic, the M-type in question was one that had directives and goals at least semi-parallel to where xhe would prefer to see hirself go. A submissive, on the other hand, requires sovereignty over certain parts of hir life despite the surrender of others. Big difference. The reason some will say there isn't any is because people are free to use whatever title suits them (making the discussion difficult). If I suddenly decide to call myself a giraffe, however, it does not magically erase the differences between giraffes and humans.

maat -> RE: Slave VS. Submissive (10/24/2009 2:12:46 PM)
its just labels, slave, pet or submissive. I call myself submissive if i have to explain something. i also get coments that i have the heart of a slave and im sooo slave not submissive. I honestly dont care, its words, its the feeling im after.

Aileen1968 -> RE: Slave VS. Submissive (10/24/2009 2:43:04 PM)
Wow. I can't believe no one has ever brought up this topic before. [:)] They are just labels and the only people that it should matter to are the ones involved in the relationship.

ncbabe -> RE: Slave VS. Submissive (10/24/2009 2:56:45 PM)
The difference is whatever it means to you. I've always called myself a submissive, but according to NZ's definitions I am a slave. Maybe I should update my profile.

j374390476 -> RE: Slave VS. Submissive (10/24/2009 3:09:43 PM)
Mistress and i call me a slave, and in many ways we live like i am a slave, but in reality i am a submissive like everyone else on this side of the leash for we ALL have limits, just some are more extreme then others.

Wolf2Bear -> RE: Slave VS. Submissive (10/24/2009 3:15:12 PM)
Same critter just a different name.

AnnaOfAramis -> RE: Slave VS. Submissive (10/24/2009 3:18:06 PM)
Hi s, This is one of those topics that is probably endlessly debated with no one agreeing. But for what it's worth... To me, "submissive" is a character trait occurring naturally throughout the animal kingdom- humans included. There will always be some who are more dominant and some who are submissive by nature. Having a submissive nature means you are more likely to follow the orders of someone stronger than you, that you are generally more comfortable with someone else leading. Having a submissive nature means that it is possible that if someone meets the right person who is strong enough in the ways that they need, they can potentially become enslaved by that person. To me this happens not by choice, but by response. A submissive chooses to obey because a submissive while preferring to follow, is still a free person who can make their own choices. A slave, contrary to popular belief, in my opinion, cannot choose. She responds to the dominant person because of the force of their personality and the way that it complements her particular needs (meaning that not just any strong person will do, it has to be the one that is capable of mastering HER). She finds herself obeying- sometimes not even knowing that she is doing so... she obeys because he wills her to, not because she chooses to. If she is choosing, then she is maintaining her free status and by definition can not be a slave. It's not the way a lot of people see it though. But thought I'd throw that out there. Well wishes, anna

porcelaine -> RE: Slave VS. Submissive (10/24/2009 3:19:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: supportourtroops What do you consider to be a slave VS. a submissive? I have always called and considered myself a submissive as I have limits. The DOMs I meet always tell me I'm a slave to the bone. I've asked and their comments are, "I know a slave when I see one, and, you have slave written all over you" I would like to know how you decide and your honest opinions on the difference. while this is continually debated, it gets real dicey when the one that identifies themselves as such runs across someone with a different interpretation of the word. the terms were not as diluted as they are today. simply put: a submissive has the option of (based on the relationship type/dominant): negotiating setting/maintaining limits utilizing safe words suggesting/desiring ssc/rack implements selecting the degree of surrender according to comfort and other factors. rejecting impositions on areas of discomfort and/or limits as for slavery, rather than try and give a catch all phrase that may not apply to others i will provide my own comments on how i view slavery in power dynamics that reflect the tenets of TPE, O/p, and IE based relationships. at the forefront is the desire to be obedient and to adhere to His will. i view obedience as a continual choice, an ongoing movement as to whether we will obey at that given time. which in turn prompt the following questions when i'm examining my behavior in context to Him: is my attitude good at this moment? is this an act of my submission or will? is it in accordance with His standards, values, ethics, and what He would want in my life? during this time i adopted an attitude that embraced the concept of viewing all aspects of my life as a service to Him which i articulated through the following actions: - the importance of me being who i proclaim myself to be. - the development of pride in my actions and the obedience that service inspires. - finding humility within and learning not to rationalize or attempt to make decisions for the One i serve. - having a conscience acceptance that this relationship is different and the requirements differ as well. - ingraining in my mind the fact that service is not what i believe it to be, but in actuality is what He says. - being able to bring all of me into serving by following my own nature and the path He has laid with the silent knowledge that i will hold to it no matter how difficult the challenges or tasks may be. - trusting that He is capable of and will provide me with the tools that i need. - appreciating the value found in waiting and that it too is a service and should be performed with a calm energy that does not push and will in turn cultivate discipline that can actually be a form of denial as well. - practicing self care and making it a part of my daily activities. - owning my actions and choices with a clear awareness that actions have consequences that i will be held accountable for and must take responsibility for as well. it is a series of continuous acts meant to develop and sustain mindfulness, who's goal is to inspire a pliant heart that seeks a state of being where all actions, thoughts, and desires are the embodiment of His will. over the years i have written many things about slavery, however these precepts stand and are just as applicable today as they were in the past. porcelaine

eyesopened -> RE: Slave VS. Submissive (10/24/2009 3:27:37 PM)
The dictionary has always been a good place for me to look for definitions. Submission is defined (at least one of the dictionary definitions) as "yeilding to the authority of another". I honestly believe this fits most D/s dynamics. A slave is the posession of another. One can be both submissive and slave or slave but not submissive or any varience or degree. One is not better than another. I don't believe it is associated with the degree to which one serves, or makes choices, etc. I know plenty of people who are not slaves who serve from the depth of their souls but simply do not identify as a posession. I was not a slave until my Master claimed ownership of me and took responsibility for me and I was able to accept myself as being His posession. (Oh, and that He took responsibility doesn't mean I don't maintain responsibility for myself, let's not get into that hair-splitting.)

AnnaOfAramis -> RE: Slave VS. Submissive (10/24/2009 3:31:11 PM)
quote: slave but not submissive I'm pretty sure that's not possible, just sayin'... lol, did you mean to say that?

lizi -> RE: Slave VS. Submissive (10/24/2009 3:46:52 PM)
As a general category I label myself as a sub because I think that title that seems to fit me. Others interpret my personality and actions according to their own definition and it isn't always the same word I use. It's really what the other responders have said -whatever works for that particular relationship. There isn't a blanket definition that everyone accepts as being gospel. Even if such a dictionary existed there are different ways people can interpret the meanings. It's all up to what you think, and what the person you are with thinks, and the agreement that you come to. *Edited for clarity

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Slave VS. Submissive (10/24/2009 4:54:01 PM)
For us, we feel too many view the difference between sub and slave in the physical sense (i.e., kneeling, following orders, sexual limits, limits on freedoms, etc.), where we feel the difference is in the mental/emotional sense. As such, here's how we personally view the sub vs. slave thing: If the person's primary pleasure comes from: THEIR pleasure from submitting/submission itself, that's sub-wired Their PARTNER'S pleasure in their submission, that's slave-wired Mind you, this is NOT to say a "sub" does not seek to please their Toppy one, nor is this meant to imply a "slave" does not receive pleasure from their service; it's simply where the PRIMARY motivation to submit/surrender comes from... because they enjoy submitting, or because they enjoy their PARTNERS pleasure from their submission. Now, many who identify as "sub" may read the above and feel they fit the description of "slave-wired". And to that I would add we also feel FAR too many are simply afraid to self-identify as "slave" because of much of the internet information (or misinformation) that's out there with regard to what a slave is SUPPOSED to be (i.e., that a slave can have no life, no career, is bound naked 24/7 in a cellar somewhere, has no limits, and so forth). If these physical tenets were true, then one could simply chain a "sub" in a basement somewhere and call them a "slave". But that wouldn't be accurate. And so, the physical compoenents of limits, freedoms, obedience, and so on cannot be accurately used to define the difference between sub and slave, where the mental/emotional element can. Additionally, there are those who view sub and slave on a sliding, linear scale of sorts (i.e., with sub on one side and slave on the other... with a progression from sub to slave). We don't personally subscribe to that theory, instead viewing the two as apples and oranges; with neither being better or worse than the other... just different. Lastly, with regard to LIMITS... just as a "sub" chooses their Dom/me, so too does a "slave" choose their Master/Mistress... and that choice is based on mutual/common interests, limits and so forth. So while it may APPEAR as if a slave has no limits or control, it's simply not the case. Things have been pre-negotiated prior to their ownership.

tazzygirl -> RE: Slave VS. Submissive (10/24/2009 5:14:40 PM)
you are you. whatever he, or she, may see in you doesnt change who you are. its a lable, but, at the end of the day, when your kneeling, standing, sitting, cuddling, what have you... it only matters what he/she may think, no?

leadership527 -> RE: Slave VS. Submissive (10/24/2009 5:16:31 PM)
As you should have already figured out reading this thread, there are no commonly accepted definitions of these words. Everyone has their own thing. For some people it's about "ownership" (an interesting concept in and of itself and not an easy thing to define). For some it's about limits or the lack thereof. For some it's about internal headspace. So what that means is any sentence in which someone uses either "sub" or "slave", you can just translate in your head to "submissive - need more data" laughs I would have absolutely NO idea what the particular people who are saying this to you might mean. I could tell you what I think the word means to me, but what good would that do you? It wouldn't agree with anything anyone else here has posted.

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