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RE: Why not "Black" instead of "African ... - 10/27/2009 7:50:08 AM   
chiaThePet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptainJack09

Why is it "BBW" instead of "fat"?


Oh no you didn't!

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RE: Why not "Black" instead of "African ... - 10/27/2009 8:08:15 AM   
Eigenaar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anarrus

Actually, any American who's roots are from the continent of Africa could be considered African-American. This includes South Africans, Egyptians, and whites born anywhere on that continent.
The label African-American is pretentious at best and condescending at worst.
But hey, it tends to make all us white folk feel pretty comfortable. And it's politically correct
I've never seen anything wrong with just using "Black"

It would be politically correct if caucasians would be called European American and Australian aboriginals Australian American. Since most users have an English username, even while living in a German village and only wanting a local dom, this would not be a bad idea to most users I think.

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RE: Why not "Black" instead of "African ... - 10/27/2009 8:13:06 AM   
Blaakmaan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: einstien5201

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Fashion.  They used to be called Negroes (well, they were known as something else first), then darkies, then coloreds, then blacks, then African American.  We'll think of something else to call them eventually.


A minor correction: Negro was in use well before the other word you imply, and was actually the root word of the other. It comes from the Spanish word for "black", "negro".

As for why "African-American" is used in favor of "Black", I can think of a few reasons, though I have no support for these other than my own thoughts.

The new term emphasizes that they are a subset of Americans, rather than of people in general, helping to promote the idea that citizens of the US are Americans first, and only after that whatever group or culture they identify with.

"Black" conjures up images of evil, witchcraft, and spooky graveyards at night, in much the same way "White" conjures up images of cleanliness, angels, and healing magic. While most won't object to an adjective that associates them with angels and clean linen, being associated with evil knights and bad luck is understandably undesirable.

It just doesn't fit. While "Black" may be a relatively accurate description of the population in certain areas of Africa (at least as accurate as "White" is of certain populations in Europe - I'm thinking of the Norse countries and Ireland in particular), it certainly isn't accurate of the majority of those who identify with the term "African-American". Even before his transition into a poster child for cosmetic surgery gone wrong, Michael Jackson could hardly be described as having black skin, and I think that the same goes for most "Americans of african descent". We are after all a mixing pot, and that doesn't just apply to culture and language, but to genetics as well.



Hmmmm...

An intelligent, educated response.

How refreshing!

Use of the term "Black" was an explicit rejection of the term "Negro" and an attempt, more or less successful, to eliminate any preferences or gradations in status among the descendants of slaves depending on how much white lineage they had.

And, the "black" identification was, in a sense, revolutionary, because the descendants of American slaves had been taught to revile the "black" identification.

When I was a child, the surest way to start a fight with a black person was to call him or her "black."
And, the gravest of insults was to call a black person a "black _________".

All that has changed.

Thank God.

We're all Black. We're all one. At least in theory.

We're Black and we're proud.

The term "African-American" is a cultural, rather than a strictly racial, identification.

It acknowledges that "African-Americans" are indeed American--not just some free-floating people without a country or a place.

It does not deny blackness. It is not a rejection of the "black" identification.

It is more an augmentation--an additional identification that is culturally, rather than racially, based.

And it's not really a new identity at all.

In fact, the term "Afro-American" was much used in the 1960's, if not before, and it co-existed with the "black" identification.

Some eschew the "African-American" identification because it can tend to divide American Blacks from Black Africans and Blacks of Carribbean descent, for example, which is unfortunate.

If you don't get it, you just don't get it.

For those who would actually like some insight into this issue, as opposed to an excuse to post silly, racist bullshit (which, unfortunately, seems to be the norm):

http://uppitynegronetwork.com/2008/07/12/why-im-a-black-african-american/

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RE: Why not "Black" instead of "African ... - 10/27/2009 8:18:57 AM   
Blaakmaan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Fashion.  They used to be called Negroes (well, they were known as something else first), then darkies, then coloreds, then blacks, then African American.  We'll think of something else to call them eventually.


Upon re-reading this, it's even more ridiculous than at first glance.

If that's possible.

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RE: Why not "Black" instead of "African ... - 10/27/2009 8:29:00 AM   
Blaakmaan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShadowSide

Because "black" is a color.


Except it isn't.
Unless you are a chemist.(And even then it's debatable).

Black and white are not colours.  They are the absence of colour.

the.dark.


As I understand it, in the sense of physics, black is the absence of color, and white is the blending of all colors.

Technically.

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RE: Why not "Black" instead of "African ... - 10/27/2009 8:33:56 AM   
GreedyTop


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I think it's the other way around, actually.

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RE: Why not "Black" instead of "African ... - 10/27/2009 8:37:35 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShadowSide

Because "black" is a color.


Except it isn't.
Unless you are a chemist.(And even then it's debatable).

Black and white are not colours.  They are the absence of colour.

the.dark.


As I understand it, in the sense of physics, black is the absence of color, and white is the blending of all colors.

Technically.


Well, technically (in physics)  white reflects all colour - which in physics means it is a colour.
Black however, absorbs colour and does not reflect back to the eye, making it not a colour (in physics).

the.dark.

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RE: Why not "Black" instead of "African ... - 10/27/2009 8:37:41 AM   
honeygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Fashion.  They used to be called Negroes (well, they were known as something else first), then darkies, then coloreds, then blacks, then African American.  We'll think of something else to call them eventually.


I find the whole context behind this statement pretty yuck and I am pretty appalled personally.  Ah well.

the.dark.



This thread is mighty interesting. And DarkSteven's post is the top of the pile. The absolute top. I don't often get the opportunity to see anything like that. Yes, I guess *appalled* would sum my emotions up very accurately!

And yes, yes, he may write later about how some of us just can't a joke. He's just being playful and we should share in the laughter!



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RE: Why not "Black" instead of "African ... - 10/27/2009 8:41:15 AM   
Blaakmaan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I understand what you are saying, only you have the right to call yourself whatever you choose, and with that others of your colour,ethnicity, ancestry etc. But for those of the ''white'' racial colour that wish to understand and push all this crap with undertones of racism aside, it would be helpful, if we knew where we stood when reffering to a persons description.

For example, if you had to describe a person say in the street for whatever, would you say 'black' , African whatever, or what ? Personally I find the use of colours as descriptive terms abhorrent, as black is opposite to white and vice versa, and there that straight away indicates difference, black with it's usual connotations of something shadowy, not light. Do a similar word exercise on each colour, and you will see what I mean.

You see, we suffer from what is the  current politically correct word syndrome, we can say the wrong thing and cause unintended offence just by the use of a description  known to us we though correct, been there on that one, and with the police too.

But with President Obama now in the top seat, maybe all remaining undertones and remenants of a less enlightened past needs to be addressed, for the good of all.



To me, in most instances, "Black" and "African-American" are interchangeable.

Neither would cause me the slightest offense.

There is a context.

If I were talking to you and a group of your white friends, and you said you were British, and your friend said he was Spanish, I'd say I'm African-American. Or perhaps, Black American.

It grounds me in a place on the planet.

If we were chatting on IM, and you said "I'm a white woman," I'd say "I'm a black man."

That's a racial identification.

For most purposes, you can use the two interchangeably, without concern.

But, "Negro" and anything that's a historical antecedent to that term, is gonna be a problem.

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RE: Why not "Black" instead of "African ... - 10/27/2009 8:42:11 AM   
kdsub


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One absorbs all visible wavelengths of light where the other reflects them...

just saying… technically


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RE: Why not "Black" instead of "African ... - 10/27/2009 8:45:16 AM   
Blaakmaan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: devilishpixie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan


quote:

ORIGINAL: devilishpixie

I find it silly personally, I have NEVER once called my owner an African amercian man. He is a black man period. He doens't take offense to it or get his boxers in a bunch. lol



Well, I guess can't really blame YOU.

After all, you only know as much as you're taught...


WTF does that mean?


It means just WTF it said.
There's nothing "silly" about "African American."
Nothing at all.

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RE: Why not "Black" instead of "African ... - 10/27/2009 8:49:55 AM   
Blaakmaan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Venatrix

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

If you REALLY want to know why Blacks in America choose to be known as one thing instead another, you'd do well to listen to Blacks in America, because most white people don't have a clue.


True.  But most white people really don't care what you call yourselves.  Right now, the vast majority of them are either looking for jobs, trying to find jobs beyond part-time, or trying to keep the jobs they have.  Sorry if you don't like hearing this, but most people have more to worry about right now.


Oh, I get that.

Because most black people don't care if white people care or not.
(We could continue this cycle indefinitely, but let's not...)

We have plenty of more pressing problems, too.

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RE: Why not "Black" instead of "African ... - 10/27/2009 8:53:03 AM   
cjan


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Here, in the South ( USA ), it beats calling them  "niggras ".

Btw, "Dashiki" means "doggy style" in Swahili.....'member ?

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RE: Why not "Black" instead of "African ... - 10/27/2009 8:55:13 AM   
Wolf2Bear


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Anarrus

Actually, any American who's roots are from the continent of Africa could be considered African-American. This includes South Africans, Egyptians, and whites born anywhere on that continent.
The label African-American is pretentious at best and condescending at worst.
But hey, it tends to make all us white folk feel pretty comfortable. And it's politically correct
I've never seen anything wrong with just using "Black"



It's absolutely just as "pretentious" and "condescending" as Irish-American, or Japanese-American, or Italian-American is for you people who have never set foot on the soil of Ireland, Japan and Italy.

You people are just amazing!


Frankly anyone who immigrated from the country of their birth to here can legitimately be referred to as Irish-American or Italian American though when it comes to the 2nd, 3rd, 4th..etc generation....it does become redundant. It's great to have a sense of pride regarding one's ancestral heritage though it is a fine between that and being overly arrogant about it.

~Bear...the white assed mutt~

eta: kinda idiotic to get one's knickers in a major uproar over the varying amounts of melanin in their skin then others; especially when melanin is a biological process we have absolutely no control over.


< Message edited by Wolf2Bear -- 10/27/2009 9:02:04 AM >


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RE: Why not "Black" instead of "African ... - 10/27/2009 8:55:18 AM   
mnottertail


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but Blaakman,

Why is negro getting to be a problem? That sort of fucks it for the united negro college fund and derivatives like that........

Afro-american is no longer used, I dont know now, but when I was around many older folks, woman of color or man of color were ok for everyone, is that still true? and if black folk are of color, what does that make us crackers? transparent? I am a man of transparency.....LOL

Now, I understand it is all sort of motile, the way people identify (and they fuckin' do and there is nothing in the world to stop it........

but if we say, people with a genetically superior tanning solution that still can get sunburned, we aint never gonna get to hello, are we?


Just Musing,

Ron (Norwo-American)
too american and too divided, I am now united

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 10/27/2009 9:17:25 AM >


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RE: Why not "Black" instead of "African ... - 10/27/2009 9:04:00 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolf2Bear

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Anarrus

Actually, any American who's roots are from the continent of Africa could be considered African-American. This includes South Africans, Egyptians, and whites born anywhere on that continent.
The label African-American is pretentious at best and condescending at worst.
But hey, it tends to make all us white folk feel pretty comfortable. And it's politically correct
I've never seen anything wrong with just using "Black"



It's absolutely just as "pretentious" and "condescending" as Irish-American, or Japanese-American, or Italian-American is for you people who have never set foot on the soil of Ireland, Japan and Italy.

You people are just amazing!


Frankly anyone who immigrated from the country of their birth to here can legitimately be referred to as Irish-American or Italian American though when it comes to the 2nd, 3rd, 4th..etc generation....it does become redundant. It's great to have a sense of pride regarding one's ancestral heritage though it is a fine between that and being overly arrogant about it.

~Bear...the white assed mutt~



well, japanese living in other countries are:

Issei (first generation)
Nisei (second generation)
Sansei
Yonsei

and now they have an all encompassing (made up word, I think) for japanese background that do not eminate from Japan:
Nikkei.......

but they are generally concerned with longer time periods and traditions than most others are.

Ron

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RE: Why not "Black" instead of "African ... - 10/27/2009 9:07:49 AM   
sirsholly


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i could call myself Irish of American descent, an Irish-American, an American who sunburns easily, or (my choice) an American.

The bottom line is....who cares?????


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RE: Why not "Black" instead of "African ... - 10/27/2009 9:10:12 AM   
mnottertail


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Irish of American descent?

lets not get too interchangeable in our terms holly. It makes it even worse.

An American of Irish descent I can buy, not the other way 'round, it puts the chicken before the egg..............

LOL,
Ron Descended from the insufferable smarasses

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RE: Why not "Black" instead of "African ... - 10/27/2009 9:10:17 AM   
Blaakmaan


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Well, we didn't all, historically speaking, just leave our native countries voluntarily.

Africans were brought here by slavery.

The Irish were pushed here by a potato famine.

Under circumstances like those faced by the Irish, I think it's natural for people who were driven from their native land by natural disaster, to have a longing for that land, and to want to keep an identity with it.

Additionally, those labels, like "Irish," weren't necessarily sought by the immigrants themselves. The labels were often foisted on them to justify discrimination against them (as in, "No Irish Need Apply").

For Blacks in America, who were taught that Africa was a land of uncivilized heathens, barbarians and cannibals, to embrace the identify of "African," was--like embracing the racial identity of "black"--nothing short of a revolution of the mind.

Accepting and embracing the identities of "black" and "African" were both great steps forward in the evolution of what has been called "a black esthetic," or what I would call a black "consciousness."

To some Blacks, the identity "African-American" is a continuation of that evolution.

To others, it's a step backwards.

Depends on your point of view.

But, either is acceptable, in almost any circumstance.

Personally, I use and answer to both.

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RE: Why not "Black" instead of "African ... - 10/27/2009 9:17:44 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

Irish of American descent?

lets not get too interchangeable in our terms holly. It makes it even worse.

An American of Irish descent I can buy, not the other way 'round, it puts the chicken before the egg..............
damnit Ron...now this thread is going to go to the chicken/egg thing again!!!! And next some wise-ass (that would be you, btw) is going to ask why the hell the feathered beast crossed the road.....*sob*

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