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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/19/2009 4:42:44 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Wouldn't their apology for misleading viewers, only after others pointed it out, be an admission of guilt?

What kind of proof besides admission and apology do you require?

Butch



an apology for an admitted production error is an admission of exactly that...a production error, not "guilt". Only on this board could it be spun to be anything more.

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/19/2009 4:47:40 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

The assertion that the leadership of the Tea party Movement refered to themselves as "TEABAGGERS". Why are you playing dumb?


Whoa, wait a minute. First of all, I take exception to your suggestion  that I was pretending not to understand what you were talking about. I asked you several times to explain where you were coming  from, and you ignored me every time. It never occurred to me that you'd hang your entire argument on such a flimsy issue. And now the price I pay for giving you too much credit is to be called a liar. Noted.

Second... nah, fuck it. I'm leaving it right there. You used to at least be a guy someone could have a discussion with, even when you're wrong, but now it's like talking to a stump. Like I said earlier, this is a waste of keystrokes. Think whatever you want to think, I'm done trying to figure out the sense in what you're trying to say.


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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/19/2009 4:52:44 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Wouldn't their apology for misleading viewers, only after others pointed it out, be an admission of guilt?

What kind of proof besides admission and apology do you require?

Butch



an apology for an admitted production error is an admission of exactly that...a production error, not "guilt". Only on this board could it be spun to be anything more.


It was not the first error on their part...you do know that don't you... And it did change the thrust and truth of the story directly. As others have said it is either out and out fraud or Fox is incompetent at presenting the news.

Myself considering how slick and competent the presentation and look of their news I believe these were not production errors but attempts to influence viewers with misinformation.

Now this is not to say other news organizations have not been guilty of exactly the same thing but its advocates cannot truthfully describe Fox as impartial.

Butch


< Message edited by kdsub -- 11/19/2009 4:53:38 PM >


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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/19/2009 4:56:07 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Wouldn't their apology for misleading viewers, only after others pointed it out, be an admission of guilt?

What kind of proof besides admission and apology do you require?

Butch



an apology for an admitted production error is an admission of exactly that...a production error, not "guilt". Only on this board could it be spun to be anything more.


It was not the first error on their part...you do know that don't you... And it did change the thrust and truth of the story directly. As others have said it is either out and out fraud or Fox is incompetent at presenting the news.

Myself considering how slick and competent the presentation and look of their news I believe these were not production errors but attempts to influence viewers with misinformation.

Now this is not to say other news organizations have not been guilty of exactly the same thing but its advocates cannot truthfully describe Fox as impartial.

Butch



And it wont be the last, and its happened at every other fucking news channel on the air and therefore you have no basis for your belief unless you believe every channel does the same thing..in which case singling out Fox is intellectually dishonest.

surprise surprise surprise

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/19/2009 5:09:55 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


And it wont be the last, and its happened at every other fucking news channel on the air and therefore you have no basis for your belief unless you believe every channel does the same thing..in which case singling out Fox is intellectually dishonest.

surprise surprise surprise



You may be right I have not watched every other news outlet...Perhaps you could link me to some examples where NBC and CBS has had to apologize for using false video footage to support a story.

Butch


_____________________________

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/19/2009 6:45:28 PM   
luckydawg


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Go whine panda, your good at it.

You are insisting that the tea partiers call them selves "Teabaggers", hence it is not bias for CNN to call them that and snicker.

Its only a small part of my argument, just one example. Yet you and RML wanted to round and round insisting (with absolutly no eveidence except for one unnamed guy with a button that can be made on a PC) that they call themselves that. Hence it is not bias to call them that while snickering.

I have been asking you and RML for some evidence to back your claim.

and since you have absolutly none, you walk off in a huff. As everyone can plainly see.


Pathetic

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/19/2009 8:27:23 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

You see, some of us require actual proof of these things, not assumptions made by a self-confessed spinner.
ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy



Gee...twice in a very short period of time Fox has admitted that they have run incorrect video packages in support of their stories. What are you speaking of in needing proof? If they did it on purpose, it's fraud. If they did it by accident it's shoddy journalism. Let's not pretend that you would be equally as open minded if they weren't flacks for your personal viewpoints, shall we?


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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/19/2009 8:30:25 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

You see, some of us require actual proof of these things, not assumptions made by a self-confessed spinner.
ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy



Gee...twice in a very short period of time Fox has admitted that they have run incorrect video packages in support of their stories. What are you speaking of in needing proof? If they did it on purpose, it's fraud. If they did it by accident it's shoddy journalism. Let's not pretend that you would be equally as open minded if they weren't flacks for your personal viewpoints, shall we?




Its not pretending, ive already stated that all news shows make the same errors and I don't rail about them unless they try to hide it.

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/19/2009 8:41:23 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

You see, some of us require actual proof of these things, not assumptions made by a self-confessed spinner.
ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy



Gee...twice in a very short period of time Fox has admitted that they have run incorrect video packages in support of their stories. What are you speaking of in needing proof? If they did it on purpose, it's fraud. If they did it by accident it's shoddy journalism. Let's not pretend that you would be equally as open minded if they weren't flacks for your personal viewpoints, shall we?




Its not pretending, ive already stated that all news shows make the same errors and I don't rail about them unless they try to hide it.


Then please show us a link where they did falsify video...it may have happened...but just for the sake of proof...lets see them.

I mean I know Iran did it with their rocket launch…but whom else in the major networks?

Butch


_____________________________

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/19/2009 8:41:57 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

Its not pretending, ive already stated that all news shows make the same errors and I don't rail about them unless they try to hide it.
ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy



'Fessing up after you are caught is not honesty. I notice they didn't correct either error until it was pointed out in other venues. So are they that sloppy or are they frauds? I don't know. Either way, it does little for their credibility.  I also haven't seen any proof that "all news organizations" make such errors on a regular basis. Just claiming it doesn't make it true.

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/19/2009 8:46:44 PM   
luckydawg


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Gee, I guess since the NYtimes has 3 corrections today, that means they are utterly useless.
http://query.nytimes.com/search/sitesearch?query=corrections&more=past_1&n=10&prev=0&frow=0&page=1


They do every single day. Do you guys actually not know this stuff? No wonder your a lefty.


Or is this one of those double standard things, where them printing false things is ok?

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/19/2009 8:55:28 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Gee, I guess since the NYtimes has 3 corrections today, that means they are utterly useless.
http://query.nytimes.com/search/sitesearch?query=corrections&more=past_1&n=10&prev=0&frow=0&page=1


They do every single day. Do you guys actually not know this stuff? No wonder your a lefty.


Or is this one of those double standard things, where them printing false things is ok?


I did not see false video... and we are talking NBC...CBS and Fox... at least I was in my previous posts. Not a mistake reporting a story but changing it by adding false video...two different things.

Butch


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/19/2009 9:03:38 PM   
luckydawg


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Ok so kd sub says it is ok to print false stuff and then correct it. But if fox airs something incorrect and corrects it it is ba ba bad. Got it....


NYtimes has been a part of this "Media challenge" since the OP. But I am getting used to lefties changing terms in order to pretend they are winning....

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/19/2009 9:13:14 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Ok so kd sub says it is ok to print false stuff and then correct it. But if fox airs something incorrect and corrects it it is ba ba bad. Got it....


NYtimes has been a part of this "Media challenge" since the OP. But I am getting used to lefties changing terms in order to pretend they are winning....


No changing of terms. If you want to make your argument somewhat reasonable, please point out which of those corrections were made only after other media outlets reported on the errors.

But I am getting used to righties throwing more crap than a petulant chimp at the zoo and expecting people to take it seriously.


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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/19/2009 9:17:04 PM   
luckydawg


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Well there was the whole Jason Blair episode, for starters. Several articles he wrote were completely made up and political, and it took a lot of pressure to get the NYtimes to admit it and do anything about it.


And all that stuff about the Jennin Massacre....


What exactly is fox being accused of, why doesnt someone post the link to it?

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/19/2009 9:21:59 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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Ok...here's what I consider a good example of actual bias:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11/19/gop-leaders-denounce-medicare-doc-fix/

GOP Leaders Denounce Democrats' Medicare 'Doc Fix' by   FOXNews.com The "doctor fix" would be paid by more federal borrowing for Medicare, a program already steep in debt. The plan would also add to the federal deficit, which hit an all-time high of $1.42 trillion in the fiscal year that ended Sept. 30. Republican leaders on Thursday denounced the House Democrats' version of the so-called "doc fix," a $210 billion plan to keep doctors who treat Medicare patients from experiencing severe cuts in their annual federal reimbursements.  The "doctor fix" would be paid by more federal borrowing for Medicare, a program already steep in debt. The plan would also add to the federal deficit, which hit an all-time high of $1.42 trillion in the fiscal year that ended Sept. 30. The House is expected to vote on the measure Thursday. "Bringing an unpaid 'doc fix' to the floor is the height of irresponsibility," House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, said at a news conference ahead of the vote. "We'll be offering the alternative when we get to the floor today," House Minority Whip Eric Cantor, R-Va., added. Medicare physicians are facing a 21 percent cut in reimbursements next year and another roughly 5 percent cut for each of the next several years, according to the 2009 Medicare Trustees report. Supporters of the "doc fix" say that a long-term fix is needed to provide certainty to doctors, and their patients, many who fear the cuts and therefore refuse to treat Medicare patients. But Senate Democratic leaders failed last month to garner enough support for their $247 billion version of the "doc fix." The Senate blocked the plan by a vote of 47-52, with 13 Democrats joining all Republicans in opposition. Rep. Mike Pence, chairman of the House Republican Conference, issued a direct warning to President Obama about the "doc fix." "Mr. President, we have news for you," the Indiana Republican said. "People are looking at the deficit and this is adding to a lack of confidence in this economy." Rep. Paul Broun, R-Ga., issued a statement to doctors. "The message to doctors is this is not going to fix your problem," he said. "You should know that doctors are going to have a tough time seeing you if this bill is passed into law." The proposal would replace a formula from the 1997 Balanced Budget Act designed to hold down Medicare costs by setting yearly and cumulative spending targets. If actual spending exceeds the target for a given year, reimbursement rates for doctors are lowered the next year. Expenditures have exceeded projections for the past seven years and Congress has passed legislation to override the fix all seven years. The measure originally was expected to be part of Obama's sweeping health care reform legislation. But separating it will allow Democrats to prevent the measure from pushing health reform legislation over the $900 billion ceiling set by Obama. The president asserts that the 10-year plan will be paid in large part through savings in Medicare. Republicans on the House Ways and Means Committee sent a letter to the president of the American Medical Association, which supports the "doc fix," expressing support for tackling the looming cuts but voicing concerns over the Democrats' plan. "I support the intent of the legislation to stop the physician payment cut, but not only does the Democrats' bill not permanently solve the problem as some have claimed, it massively increases the deficit," Rep. Dave Camp, the top Republican on the House Ways and Means Committee, said in a written statement. "Republicans have a fully paid for policy that will ensure doctors receive fair compensation without adding to our already oversized national debt." Rep. Wally Herger, the top Republican on the House Health Subcommittee, added, "The Democrats' proposed 'fix' is really a shell game designed to mask the true cost of their proposed government takeover of health care, and it would add, by one estimate, nearly $2 trillion to Medicare's long-term unfunded liabilities -- which are already nearly $40 trillion."

What bias do I see? Well, to begin, the sublead has nothing to do with the headline. It is a condemnation of the idea along with a reminder of the size of the deficit, which is at the least an inflammatory beginning. 
More importantly, there are no less than six quotations from republicans criticizing the provision without one quotation from a democrat in favor of it. I was always of the belief that good journalism would at least make an effort to get at least one quote from the other side of a story while presenting it.
Like the doc fix or not, this seems to be a pretty blatant example of biased news to me. Of course, I am sure that those who agree with the position of this story will disagree, but this reads far more like an editorial than a piece of news.


< Message edited by SpinnerofTales -- 11/19/2009 9:22:51 PM >

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/19/2009 9:33:14 PM   
luckydawg


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Why would a news piece saying the GOP opposes a bill, include Democratic comments?

The sublead fits perfectly, it is the stated reason for the opposition to it. And the article goes along to document the Sublead as well as the headline quite well.


Now why did you have no comment on the Jason Blair episode?

You asked for an example, I gave you 2, and you changed the subject....

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/19/2009 9:52:48 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Why would a news piece saying the GOP opposes a bill, include Democratic comments?

The sublead fits perfectly, it is the stated reason for the opposition to it. And the article goes along to document the Sublead as well as the headline quite well.


Now why did you have no comment on the Jason Blair episode?

You asked for an example, I gave you 2, and you changed the subject....


The answer is that I am not familiar with the Jason Blair episode. Be that as it may, I am not going to get into an "but your side is worse' argument. I am pointing out a case of pure bias. By the way, I searched Fox and there was no mention of this doc fix that did deal with any democratic response or quote. This was their entire presentation of the issue.


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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/19/2009 10:07:18 PM   
luckydawg


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Wow, that was the same response MM gave when confronted with Bias on CNN, at least you all are using the same playbook. and don't go look it up...Ignorance is bliss for you lefties


and you didn't search very well

"The administration also says that since Obama already included the so-called "doc fix" in his 10-year budget proposal, it doesn't have to be counted again in the health overhaul bill.

"It so happens they added that to this piece of legislation, but that's sort of already baked into our fiscal trajectory," White House budget director Peter Orszag said last weekend on "FOX News Sunday."

"We're looking at what's happening with regard to new policy," Orszag added. "And with regard to new policy, this is deficit neutral over the first decade.""

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/21/dems-plotting-health-seek-b-doctors/


Surely Peter Orszag, the Obamas budget director qualifies as a democratic voice, doesn't he?

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/19/2009 10:21:35 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Wow, that was the same response MM gave when confronted with Bias on CNN, at least you all are using the same playbook. and don't go look it up...Ignorance is bliss for you lefties


and you didn't search very well

"The administration also says that since Obama already included the so-called "doc fix" in his 10-year budget proposal, it doesn't have to be counted again in the health overhaul bill.

"It so happens they added that to this piece of legislation, but that's sort of already baked into our fiscal trajectory," White House budget director Peter Orszag said last weekend on "FOX News Sunday."

"We're looking at what's happening with regard to new policy," Orszag added. "And with regard to new policy, this is deficit neutral over the first decade.""

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/21/dems-plotting-health-seek-b-doctors/


Surely Peter Orszag, the Obamas budget director qualifies as a democratic voice, doesn't he?


Actually, I do have to agree that the term doc fix didnt bring that up for me. I still believe the news story biased but will concede that in the case of another article, they did allow a democratic voice to speak.

I also am terribly sorry that the name Blair didn't ring a bell. Six years ago, he was fired by the NY Times for falsifying stories, a fact that the Time covered well has to do with the bias being shown today. Of course, that's part of your side's playbook...anything that happened any time can be used to excuse what we do now.


As for Blair, I did look him up and find little of import about a reporter who falsified stories for his own purposes and

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