RE: Submissive outside the relationship?

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WestBaySlave -> RE: Submissive outside the relationship? (11/4/2009 12:11:12 PM)
I used to say "No, totally non-submissive outside of a relationship," but while I can't say that I'm submissive to the level I am within a D/s dynamic, I must say that I'm one of the least assertive people I know when it comes to social interactions. I'm shy, quiet, tend to watch from the outside looking in, and follow others lead in an indirect way. Conversely, when I'm being pushed to do something I don't want to do by someone I don't like, I'm stubborn to the point of being the immovable object.

RCdc -> RE: Submissive outside the relationship? (11/4/2009 12:16:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PainfullyCurious I guess I find the difference to be subtle because like you say, they are intertwined: On one hand, how do you get away with serving someone without first submitting to their desires, judgement, etc. (at least for the moment). I suppose you can avoid that, but I would be concerned about the quality of the product or service that you produce. One the other hand, if your idea of service means giving them what they asked for, then that's not as intensense as submitting to their will. Yes, much like walking vs. running, like you say. I think if I was helping someone to find a career, I would might still point someone with a dominant personality (outside of the bedroom) towards their own business. Yes, there are a lot of times they will have to serve others. It can't be avoided, but it minimizes the risk/annoyance of having a boss. I call it a risk because I have a couple of friends with dominant personalities who have had trouble getting along with their boss. Even as they develop better self-control to avoid the risk, it makes them unhappy. I'm still not sure how they managed to keep their jobs. And yet if you hang around any munch or group of people who identify as being in some form of BDSM relationship, the percentage of high-flying, business owning bosses that prefere to be on the s-side of the kneel is high. Particular in men. A dominant personality does not make a dominant. I can pretty much guarrentee that if you ask any person who has met me - and there are a few off this site that have, they will tell you I have a dominant personality. But my personality doesn't make me dominant. I have co-organised munches. By the way you view control, I would hardly be the person for the 'job'. I have organised meet ups. I pretty pro-active when it comes to friendships. But I am a slave to Master. A personality trait does not negate an innate response. the.dark.

PainfullyCurious -> RE: Submissive outside the relationship? (11/4/2009 2:33:08 PM)
Thank you for speaking up! quote: ORIGINAL: WestBaySlave I used to say "No, totally non-submissive outside of a relationship," but while I can't say that I'm submissive to the level I am within a D/s dynamic, I must say that I'm one of the least assertive people I know when it comes to social interactions. I'm shy, quiet, tend to watch from the outside looking in, and follow others lead in an indirect way. Conversely, when I'm being pushed to do something I don't want to do by someone I don't like, I'm stubborn to the point of being the immovable object.

PainfullyCurious -> RE: Submissive outside the relationship? (11/4/2009 2:49:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark A dominant personality does not make a dominant. I can pretty much guarrentee that if you ask any person who has met me - and there are a few off this site that have, they will tell you I have a dominant personality. But my personality doesn't make me dominant. I have co-organised munches. By the way you view control, I would hardly be the person for the 'job'. I have organised meet ups. I pretty pro-active when it comes to friendships. But I am a slave to Master. A personality trait does not negate an innate response. the.dark. Hmmm... I should probably point out, as you discovered, that I would like to be a submissive in a relationship and I am not so in my career. Furthermore, I have aspiriations of running my own business. Is that consistant with your assumption of how I view control? Now, you bring up that there are dominants outside who prefer to be submissive inside of a relationship. I haven't mentioned anything that preculded that and I'm happy to hear the perspective from someone who has been around. Also, I noted that a lot of dominants said that they prefer to be dominant in the other things that they do, outside of the relationship. I have yet to come across one who claims he prefers to be submissive outside of his relationship. I'm still open to hearing dfferently. Do you know any doms who specifically prefer not to run the show anywhere else but in the bedroom? Anyone out there who wants to speak up?

RCdc -> RE: Submissive outside the relationship? (11/4/2009 2:58:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PainfullyCurious quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark A dominant personality does not make a dominant. I can pretty much guarrentee that if you ask any person who has met me - and there are a few off this site that have, they will tell you I have a dominant personality. But my personality doesn't make me dominant. I have co-organised munches. By the way you view control, I would hardly be the person for the 'job'. I have organised meet ups. I pretty pro-active when it comes to friendships. But I am a slave to Master. A personality trait does not negate an innate response. the.dark. Hmmm... I should probably point out, as you discovered, that I would like to be a submissive in a relationship and I am not so in my career. Furthermore, I have aspiriations of running my own business. Is that consistant with your assumption of how I view control? Now, you bring up that there are dominants outside who prefer to be submissive inside of a relationship. I haven't mentioned anything that preculded that and I'm happy to hear the perspective from someone who has been around. Also, I noted that a lot of dominants said that they prefer to be dominant in the other things that they do, outside of the relationship. I have yet to come across one who claims he prefers to be submissive outside of his relationship. I'm still open to hearing dfferently. Do you know any doms who specifically prefer not to run the show anywhere else but in the bedroom? Anyone out there who wants to speak up? That isn't what I said at all. But that is what you want to see said. You are still seeing dominants and submissives. Period. I have tried to explain that personality does not equate to orientation. Can you relate to that concept at all? the.dark.

Aileen1968 -> RE: Submissive outside the relationship? (11/4/2009 3:01:30 PM)
This is just the most amusing thread...

NormalOutside -> RE: Submissive outside the relationship? (11/4/2009 3:02:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark A dominant personality does not make a dominant. Maybe I don't understand what you mean by "personality", but as far as I know, it is a person's personality that matters, not the behaviours they choose to participate in. A dominant personality is essentially the definition of "dominant" to me, and pretty much anyone I've spoken to or read posts from on this site. Sure, a dominant person can act submissive, but that doesn't make them submissive, it makes them a dominant person who is acting submissive. Personality (what's inside) is what defines us.

RCdc -> RE: Submissive outside the relationship? (11/4/2009 3:06:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NormalOutside Maybe I don't understand what you mean by "personality", but as far as I know, it is a person's personality that matters, not the behaviours they choose to participate in. A dominant personality is essentially the definition of "dominant" to me, and pretty much anyone I've spoken to or read posts from on this site. Sure, a dominant person can act submissive, but that doesn't make them submissive, it makes them a dominant person who is acting submissive. Personality (what's inside) is what defines us. So you don't believe that any s-type can have a dominant personality? the.dark.

RCdc -> RE: Submissive outside the relationship? (11/4/2009 3:10:01 PM)
Actually, strike the above. I am going to not hijack this thread and start a seperate one. the.dark. (edit to add link for discussion - http://www.collarchat.com/m_2885835/tm.htm)

Mercnbeth -> RE: Submissive outside the relationship? (11/4/2009 5:06:06 PM)
quote: ... Do you know any doms who specifically prefer not to run the show anywhere else but in the bedroom?... this slave knows very few...Dom OR sub...besides her own self, who specifically prefers NOT to run the show, outside of the bedroom.

PainfullyCurious -> RE: Submissive outside the relationship? (11/4/2009 5:18:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark Hmmm... I should probably point out, as you discovered, that I would like to be a submissive in a relationship and I am not so in my career. Furthermore, I have aspiriations of running my own business. Is that consistant with your assumption of how I view control? Now, you bring up that there are dominants outside who prefer to be submissive inside of a relationship. I haven't mentioned anything that preculded that and I'm happy to hear the perspective from someone who has been around. Also, I noted that a lot of dominants said that they prefer to be dominant in the other things that they do, outside of the relationship. I have yet to come across one who claims he prefers to be submissive outside of his relationship. I'm still open to hearing dfferently. Do you know any doms who specifically prefer not to run the show anywhere else but in the bedroom? Anyone out there who wants to speak up? ________________________________________________________________________ That isn't what I said at all. But that is what you want to see said. You are still seeing dominants and submissives. Period. I have tried to explain that personality does not equate to orientation. Can you relate to that concept at all? the.dark. I think you missed the word not in my sentence. Above, I pointed out how I am dominant in some areas of my own life but not others. I said I never disagreed that there are people who are dominant at work who like to submit in relationships. Your response was to tell me that I can't relate to the concept that personality does not equate to orientation. I think youre making a lot of assumptions about what I believe- and they conflict with what I've actually written!

daintydimples -> RE: Submissive outside the relationship? (11/4/2009 5:25:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aileen1968 This is just the most amusing thread... I agree. It always amazes me the trouble people have with this issue. If you took 100 people, and were forced to separate the dominants and the submissives, you'd be cutting an awful lot of people in half, or thirds, or.....something. I just don't see people as so either/or. I view dominance and submission as being on opposite ends of a continuum. No one is 100% dominant or 100% submissive, we are all just somewhere on that continuum. There is always going to be someone more dominant or more submissive than you. What people tend to act on is what floats their sexual boat. For instance, I get off on being sexually submissive, which is why I consider myself a mostly submissive switch, despite my rather obvious dominant tendencies. Someone else might get off on being dominant, it doesn't mean that person has zero submissive tendencies. The whole idea that people are so black and white I find totally annoying. But then I guess I would, as I'm a switch.

PainfullyCurious -> RE: Submissive outside the relationship? (11/4/2009 5:29:41 PM)
I said: Now, you bring up that there are dominants outside who prefer to be submissive inside of a relationship. I haven't mentioned anything that preculded that and I'm happy to hear the perspective from someone who has been around. Because what you said was: And yet if you hang around any munch or group of people who identify as being in some form of BDSM relationship, the percentage of high-flying, business owning bosses that prefere to be on the s-side of the kneel is high. Particular in men. Then in your next posr you said "that's not at all what I said". It looks the same to me. Are you saying it was wrong of me to think of a "business-owning boss" as someone who is demonstrating a dominant personality outside of his relationship?

PainfullyCurious -> RE: Submissive outside the relationship? (11/4/2009 5:52:32 PM)
Fair enough. I am being black and white. I am asking questions that have to do with the opposite ends of the spectrum because I notice I am most attracted to people on one end, and while in a relationship, I think I would be happiest on the other end of the spectrum. If I had posted in ask a switch, and then seemed uninterested in the answers, that being so black and white would be silly. I posed the question to those who identify themselves as wanting to be on the submissive end of the spectrum in a relationship because those answers are more likely to be ones I can relate to. I acknowledge that there is a middle of the spectrum and that many people are happy there. If you dont mind me asking, did you start out at one end of the spectrum and then discover that you prefer to switch, or did you always know that you liked switching? quote: ORIGINAL: daintydimples quote: ORIGINAL: Aileen1968 This is just the most amusing thread... I agree. It always amazes me the trouble people have with this issue. If you took 100 people, and were forced to separate the dominants and the submissives, you'd be cutting an awful lot of people in half, or thirds, or.....something. I just don't see people as so either/or. I view dominance and submission as being on opposite ends of a continuum. No one is 100% dominant or 100% submissive, we are all just somewhere on that continuum. There is always going to be someone more dominant or more submissive than you. What people tend to act on is what floats their sexual boat. For instance, I get off on being sexually submissive, which is why I consider myself a mostly submissive switch, despite my rather obvious dominant tendencies. Someone else might get off on being dominant, it doesn't mean that person has zero submissive tendencies. The whole idea that people are so black and white I find totally annoying. But then I guess I would, as I'm a switch.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Submissive outside the relationship? (11/4/2009 6:08:43 PM)
quote: ....I view dominance and submission as being on opposite ends of a continuum. No one is 100% dominant or 100% submissive, we are all just somewhere on that continuum. There is always going to be someone more dominant or more submissive than you... if it was truly opposite ends of a continuum, wouldn't at least ONE person need to be 100% dominant and ONE person need to be 100% submissive? sorry, but the whole idea of a continuum with NO ONE to represent the polar opposites that represent the end-points seems rather silly, don't you think?

RCdc -> RE: Submissive outside the relationship? (11/4/2009 11:59:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PainfullyCurious Your response was to tell me that I can't relate to the concept that personality does not equate to orientation. I think youre making a lot of assumptions about what I believe- and they conflict with what I've actually written! *Again* - No I did not do that, there was no assumption - I did ask you a question, however. I did ask you if you can relate to the concept of personality not equating to orientation. This you have not yet responded to. Your choice. No assumption, and unlike yourself, no altering of what anyone has said. the.dark.

RCdc -> RE: Submissive outside the relationship? (11/5/2009 12:10:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PainfullyCurious I said: Now, you bring up that there are dominants outside who prefer to be submissive inside of a relationship. I haven't mentioned anything that preculded that and I'm happy to hear the perspective from someone who has been around. Because what you said was: And yet if you hang around any munch or group of people who identify as being in some form of BDSM relationship, the percentage of high-flying, business owning bosses that prefere to be on the s-side of the kneel is high. Particular in men. No I did not. What I said was that there are high flying business owning bosses that prefere to be on the s-type of the kneel. NOT that there are dominants that prefere to be submissive. Being a high flying business man does NOT make someone automatically dominant. It might make them great at business, or lucky, or in the right place at the right time, or good with figures, or good with people and relations and good at what they do but that DOESN'T automatically make a person dominant by orientation. By personality, maybe, but being the boss does not a dominant make. quote: Then in your next posr you said "that's not at all what I said". It looks the same to me. Are you saying it was wrong of me to think of a "business-owning boss" as someone who is demonstrating a dominant personality outside of his relationship? To me, you seem to be comparing orientation with personality. And that would be IMO, naive. Some people are simply good at what they do, or have a natural talent - dominance doesn't have to have anything to do with what people are good at. the.dark.

HisBestGirl -> RE: Submissive outside the relationship? (11/5/2009 1:33:54 AM)
I wouldn't necessarily say I am dominant in my everyday life but I am definitely opinionated and often told I am 'confident'. I don't necessarily think it's confidence, rather the appearance of it, a mechanism which I have developed since a young age to deflect attention during negative situations. I'd rather be brash and loud when faced with someone challenging me than meek and afraid, even if I feel that internally. Let them think I'm a bitch or too cocky for my own good; I show my vulnerabilities with those who care about me and are close to me and that is more important. Even with my Daddy, I am not submissive in a way which many outside of the 'lifestyle' (hate using that term) would expect; rather, with him alone I lay down my bow and arrow and allow myself to be captured. -Kama

PainfullyCurious -> RE: Submissive outside the relationship? (11/5/2009 6:16:29 AM)
OK. So here is where I think I disagree. I do believe that when you are being the "boss" that you are acting like a dominant. I do believe choosing that lifestyle lends to the fact that you have a dominant personality outside of the bedroom. If actions, behavior and the roles you chose to put yourself in don't determine your personality. Then what does? I've said in no less than 10 posts, that even I personally, tend to dominate in many situations and then want to submit to a significant other. So, then you ask me if I can relate to the concept that personality does not equal orientation. Of course I can! I thought that was obvious from my posts. (I've pointed out that I've noticed one trend that seems to be an exception. I've never said it was a hard and fast rule. Let's put that trend aside for now.) I think you're insightful and I'm not writing you off as an idiot. I'll even venture to say that if you thought I was an idiot you would not be taking the time to explain. That can only mean there is a logical reason we are having trouble understanding one another. I've been referring to one's actions/preferences outside of the relationship, and their personality, as synonymous. I think I see what you're getting at now. One doesn't doesn't always act/behave in line with their preferences. It gets so fragmented at that point that it's hard to put a finger on who they really are. Then to try to take a serious of moments and relate them to who you are in the bedroom is an even more ridiculous idea. Am I getting closer? Again, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I'm trying to understand your position so I can give it real consideration. Please continue to work with me. Thank you for putting time into this.

RCdc -> RE: Submissive outside the relationship? (11/5/2009 6:54:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PainfullyCurious OK. So here is where I think I disagree. I do believe that when you are being the "boss" that you are acting like a dominant. I do believe choosing that lifestyle lends to the fact that you have a dominant personality outside of the bedroom. If actions, behavior and the roles you chose to put yourself in don't determine your personality. Then what does? I've said in no less than 10 posts, that even I personally, tend to dominate in many situations and then want to submit to a significant other. So, then you ask me if I can relate to the concept that personality does not equal orientation. Of course I can! I thought that was obvious from my posts. (I've pointed out that I've noticed one trend that seems to be an exception. I've never said it was a hard and fast rule. Let's put that trend aside for now.) I think you're insightful and I'm not writing you off as an idiot. I'll even venture to say that if you thought I was an idiot you would not be taking the time to explain. That can only mean there is a logical reason we are having trouble understanding one another. I've been referring to one's actions/preferences outside of the relationship, and their personality, as synonymous. I think I see what you're getting at now. One doesn't doesn't always act/behave in line with their preferences. It gets so fragmented at that point that it's hard to put a finger on who they really are. Then to try to take a serious of moments and relate them to who you are in the bedroom is an even more ridiculous idea. Am I getting closer? Again, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I'm trying to understand your position so I can give it real consideration. Please continue to work with me. Thank you for putting time into this. The impression I am getting from you is that you are trying to overthink dominants and submissives. I've been there and done it too. If you are new to this whole malarky, it's pretty par of the course and if it feels like I am drumming over and over the same thing it's not because I am being stubbon. Obviously there will be people who disagree with me and that rocks. It's all good. I am not a majority person here. If you ask the question - what is so different between a Ds relationship and a so called vanilla one - you'll get lots of answers that don't reflect mine - which is - there is no real difference - in the same way that there is no real difference between a gay couple and a straight one. The only difference is the people involved and as each set of relationships have different people involved across the board... well - the math is pretty easy. Acting and being are two different entities. There are many d's or s-types that choose their orientation or grow into it. There are also just as many d's and s-types that have an innate orientation. The key thing is to communicate with an individual and not rely on visual clues, including employment. I have a friend who is a top notch gardener. Quiet, lean and totally beautiful. Watching him cultivate a plant could be awesome. He went around peoples homes and designed their gardens to their specification. He worked for a company. He had no desire to work alone. He liked the freedom it gave him... he was such a hippy...[:D] And he could work a flogger like zorro worked a blade and have an s-type turn to mush when he simply said their name at a munch. I am not just speaking of bedroom domination, which is fab in it's own right. Master and I are blessed and we know that we are fortunate because unlike many, we don't have to hide our relationship or what we are to each other - to anyone - so our entire lives do not have to alter just because He is Master and I am slave. We just are. I am also speaking of people who are who they are, regardless of being at a munch or at work. That the position or job isn't the key - the individual is. And so unless you communicate with an individual and find out who they are, the orientation they lean towards, are they poly, mono, dom, gay, straight, bi, blahblahblah... subtle queues only work when you understand that at their core, each subtle cue is purely subjective. So many people do not talk these days. So many people are so afraid to express themselves in fear of rejection or in fear of letting someone down. And coming from someone who made a living from it (believe me [;)]) so many people attempt to second guess another and that is never, ever healthy... that in the end, they miss the chance to live. And be themselves. I would disagree to an extent that such is synonymous. But I also do not see fragmentation. What I do see in people is facets - each reflecting and interacting with the light(or people) that they come across. the.dark.

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