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Bring back the draft. - 11/2/2009 12:50:33 AM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		YouTube - BILL MOYERS JOURNAL | Bill Moyers Essay: Restoring Accountability for Washington's Wars| PBS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYOcgcO2xK0
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RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/2/2009 7:22:19 AM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		Other countries have mandatory 2 year military service obligations for all citizens. While I am not in favor of the draft or mandatory military service, I believe there ought to be a mandatory public service period. Rather than joining the military people could fulfill that obligation making this country a better place and investing in their own future. They could spend that time working in the peace corps and making the world a better place. Think of all the good that could be accomplished with just that amount of time from each of us. It could even be done in a manner similar to the reserves. Gather for a weekend and clean up trash from poor neighborhoods and repair buildings and public facilities that need it. Spend 2 weekends a year doiung the same sort of thing. Its a thought.

Every citizen would be invested in the future of this country. Rich or poor, all would make the same investment whether military or public service.

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RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/2/2009 7:27:23 AM   
BOUNTYHUNTER


Posts: 9259
Joined: 2/5/2004
Status: offline 		I agree a mandatory public service period of some type should be in effect in every country.Its the very least we can do by giving a few tears back to out country,I gave 27 years counting reserve time and don't regreat it one minute...bounty

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RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/2/2009 8:46:00 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		You guys are dangerous!

"mandatory service"   egads.   I am glad I am too old and frail.

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RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/2/2009 9:10:18 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I joined the Navy during Vietnam. I didn't even have to go as my draft lottery number was "304" but as the eldest of four boys I thought it the right thing to do and like Bounty I don't regret it for one second!
I made lifetime friends and saw many differant countries.
If they want to have a "National Service" draft I'd be in favor of that if they used them for Border Patrol or similar duties. Not for "neighborhood organizers" or any of that Feel Good crap!

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RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/2/2009 9:36:17 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline 		While the libertarian in me wants to say no to any kind of mandatory service, when I see the lack of patriotism and feeling of responsibility for the US I lean toward mandatory service of some kind. However that could be very broad and served over an extended period of time, say two years within 6 of graduation from the highest level of education.

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RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/2/2009 9:59:19 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		How many of you have had one failure in your life and from then on based all decisions on this event? This is what Moyers is doing and saying. Because we failed in Vietnam we should never fight for ourselves because we may loose.

If we do not take the battle to them they will bring it to us...Is there anyone reading this that thinks this is not true?

I believe our problem is we are trying to fight this war with a political bent...This is not how wars are won. I believe we should fight all out...if this means a draft then bring it back...If we do not want to fight all out, engaging those that supply and support, then get our boys and girls out of there...Now they are just targets.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 11/2/2009 10:00:06 AM >

_____________________________

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RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/2/2009 11:05:45 AM   
submittous


Posts: 345
Joined: 6/12/2004
Status: offline 		As a vietnam vet who volunteered before even getting a draft card or number I think I have a right to an opinion on this.... Seems to me that if everyone's kids had manditory service of some kind, probably something like age 19 to 21 or so then the whole country would take some notice of foreign policy, wars and things like that. Right now the folks who profit so much from armed conflict like Halliburton or Raytheon can lobby for more interventions and there is no one, not even most voters who seem to care. I think we need the draft back to force the American public to take responsibility for the actions of our government. Besides if we really ever do need to deal with something like the 'war' we have started with Iraq, Afghanistan (and Iran if they get their way) we would then have access to the resources we need to win. Imagine we had a real need to control a country like India or China .... where would we get the millions of troops to do that? Not having a draft has many consequences.... most Americans don't have an interest in our foreign policy, we rely on an underclass of professional soldiers and we are not prepared for the worst possible things in the future.

We don't have a draft because we don't have politicians with enough balls to do the reponsible thing....

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RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/2/2009 11:07:47 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

How many of you have had one failure in your life and from then on based all decisions on this event? This is what Moyers is doing and saying. Because we failed in Vietnam we should never fight for ourselves because we may loose.

If we do not take the battle to them they will bring it to us...Is there anyone reading this that thinks this is not true?

I believe our problem is we are trying to fight this war with a political bent...This is not how wars are won. I believe we should fight all out...if this means a draft then bring it back...If we do not want to fight all out, engaging those that supply and support, then get our boys and girls out of there...Now they are just targets.

Butch


Moyers is perpetuating the fiction that the volunteer military is disproportionate wrt family income, race etc, and therefore a draft would raise the standards for entering a conflict. Its the Rangel call for a draft redux and of course is total bs.

One problem underlying the politicization of the execution of war is the concept of the POTUS as CIC. That may have been appropriate up to the 50s when war was fought conventionally and most Presidents had significant military experience or education. Now it is just a political fiction.

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RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/2/2009 12:20:03 PM   
GoDolphins


Posts: 78
Joined: 3/26/2009
Status: offline 		Other than times of serious conflict, there is no reason to have a draft.  It goes against everything a free society stands for to force citizens to fight in battles like this.  Perhaps if we quit picking a fight with everyone who disagreed with us we wouldn't be in this situation so often. 

I'll say this, if the draft comes back, Congress better have declared war on someone.  Since that hasn't happened yet I don't support the draft right now.  When Congress has the guts to actually declare war then we can talk about them instituting a draft.

What really amazes me are the people in their 30s and above who sit on their asses and don't help a single person out who want to try to force all the young people to do some kind of public service against their will. This thread hasn't reflected it yet, but they often are the biggest supporters of something like this that I can see.  They can't be bothered to do anything themselves but are perfectly willing to volunteer others for the job.

I agree that people should take more interest in helping others out, but we shouldn't be forcing it. 

(in reply to submittous)
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RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/2/2009 12:26:13 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		I joined the 82nd Airborne while we were still in Vietnam.  By the time I got through basic, A. I. T. and jump school, we were out.  I went to Panama for a show of force and to Korea after they shot down an American chopper.  I spent 3 yrs in the service and 4 yrs in the reserve.  Like others here...Bounty, submittous, I have no regrets about giving that time to the country and the others before me that gave me the freedom to live as I do.

Too many think being born was all they had to do...that and agitating others to give what they've earned to those who have not.

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RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/2/2009 1:09:52 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		You are pretty general in your description of us older, set on our asses, type people don't you think...after all we give you your life and freedom.

It would be wise of you to think about the world you will be handing your children. I would hate for them think their parents cowards that were afraid to contribute to securing their own way of life.

If you have served thank you...if not don't be afraid...you will like it and feel proud you did.

Butch


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/2/2009 1:59:53 PM   
GoDolphins


Posts: 78
Joined: 3/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You are pretty general in your description of us older, set on our asses, type people don't you think...after all we give you your life and freedom.


I did not say all older people were like this and have no idea why you think I did. All I said was I don't like those people who think like this.

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RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/2/2009 2:06:42 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

What really amazes me are the people in their 30s and above who sit on their asses and don't help a single person out who want to try to force all the young people to do some kind of public service against their will. This thread hasn't reflected it yet, but they often are the biggest supporters of something like this that I can see. They can't be bothered to do anything themselves but are perfectly willing to volunteer others for the job.


People in their 40's have kids in their 20's and younger. Think about what you said.

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RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/2/2009 2:51:58 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

I joined the 82nd Airborne while we were still in Vietnam.  By the time I got through basic, A. I. T. and jump school, we were out.  I went to Panama for a show of force and to Korea after they shot down an American chopper.  I spent 3 yrs in the service and 4 yrs in the reserve.  Like others here...Bounty, submittous, I have no regrets about giving that time to the country and the others before me that gave me the freedom to live as I do.

Too many think being born was all they had to do...that and agitating others to give what they've earned to those who have not.
What would be really amusing would be to see what your post's would look like if Obama and a Democratic Congress ever tried to reinstate a draft......The Gov't can't be trusted to be in the health care business...but you seem to be supporting some sort of mandatory service....too comical.

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/2/2009 3:26:29 PM   
GoDolphins


Posts: 78
Joined: 3/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

What really amazes me are the people in their 30s and above who sit on their asses and don't help a single person out who want to try to force all the young people to do some kind of public service against their will. This thread hasn't reflected it yet, but they often are the biggest supporters of something like this that I can see. They can't be bothered to do anything themselves but are perfectly willing to volunteer others for the job.


People in their 40's have kids in their 20's and younger. Think about what you said.


Yes, my parents are in their 40's and I'm in my 20's. I realize this. What's the point?

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RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/2/2009 3:27:13 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Do you see your parents as willing to sit on their asses and ship you off to war?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to GoDolphins)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/2/2009 3:30:05 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Let me take a shot at that Tazzy....speaking strictly as a father of a 21 y/o......NO!!!!!!

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/2/2009 3:31:07 PM   
GoDolphins


Posts: 78
Joined: 3/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Do you see your parents as willing to sit on their asses and ship you off to war?


No, and I never said they did.

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RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/2/2009 3:39:07 PM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

What really amazes me are the people in their 30s and above who sit on their asses and don't help a single person out who want to try to force all the young people to do some kind of public service against their will. This thread hasn't reflected it yet, but they often are the biggest supporters of something like this that I can see. They can't be bothered to do anything themselves but are perfectly willing to volunteer others for the job.


Really now..I'm curious as to what type of survey you've done and how many persons above 30 you've polled to make this wide sweeping statement, and did you include asking them what they did when they were under 30?

When I was in my under 30's I did the military service. Now over 40..I also have a son who is in his early 20's to whom this proposal would affect, and I'm all for such a thing. Again though I'm for compromising some sort of deal where by older (beyond military acceptance) persons would do a community service sort of commitment as well.

Not that it would ever fly but I always pondered giving prison lifers of the appropriate age for military service, and making units solely made of them..train them..air drop em into enemy territory to do their thang. If after 3yrs of service they survive..reduce their sentence so much time. The longer they stay in the military..the more of their life sentence time is reduced. Probably a major long shot but sure beats housing and feeding them for free the rest of their lives.

starshine


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