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RE: 10.4% Unemployment - 11/11/2009 12:52:10 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		When results point to failure - lie!


The stimulus bill - a $787 billion package of tax breaks, expanded government benefits, and infrastructure improvements - was signed into law in February by President Obama, who said it would create and save jobs by preserving local government services and spurring short- and long-term economic development.

While Massachusetts recipients of federal stimulus money collectively report 12,374 jobs saved or created, a Globe review shows that number is wildly exaggerated. Organizations that received stimulus money miscounted jobs, filed erroneous figures, or claimed jobs for work that has not yet started.

One of the largest reported jobs figures comes from Bridgewater State College, which is listed as using $77,181 in stimulus money for 160 full-time work-study jobs for students. But Bridgewater State spokesman Bryan Baldwin said the college made a mistake and the actual number of new jobs was “almost nothing.’’ Bridgewater has submitted a correction, but it is not yet reflected in the report.

“We see $15 million construction projects with no jobs, and a $900 shoe sale that created nine jobs. Both are obviously wrong,’’ said Michael Balsam, chief solutions officer for Onvia, a Seattle data company tracking the stimulus spending.

Several other Head Start agencies also reported using stimulus funds for pay raises and claimed jobs for it.

At Bridgewater State, Baldwin said the college mistakenly counted part-time student jobs as full time.

Robert Ercolini manages a 201-unit affordable housing development in Plymouth. After being notified his annual rental subsidies were classified as stimulus spending, Ercolini renewed a request to the US Department of Housing and Urban Development for more than $1 million to fix up the property, reasoning he would be creating jobs by hiring contractors. He was refused.

“After HUD denied me money to make needed improvements and actually create jobs,’’ Ercolini said, “it’s really funny to find out in September that I’ve been receiving stimulus funds all along and they want to know how many jobs we’ve saved or created.’’

By his count, the answer is: “No jobs.’’



(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: 10.4% Unemployment - 11/11/2009 12:58:53 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		bridgewater state college should fire its entire administration, since it cant count and follow directions, two things that are kinda necessary in most jobs.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: 10.4% Unemployment - 11/11/2009 4:00:03 PM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		It's still a bureaucracy packed with Bush appointees, and states strapped for cash have been misappropriating stimulus money to cover their shortfalls.

The Great Emancipator's administration was similarly riddled with opportunists, who pretty much took over the whole show after Grant was elected - it will take a while to weed out the ringers who are no doubt numerous.

The timing here was not good, there's going to be a lot to learn in the first few months of the job, and it seems a typical ploy for an outgoing republican president to foment a crisis.

In short, republicans have not been any help at all; if stories like this had been getting press at the time, perhaps something might have been done, but pubs were too busy crying about the fact that there was a stimulus plan at all, or hysterically shrieking about birther bullshit, and are now only being trotted out to confirm their predictions of failure.

Thanks for nuthin'.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: 10.4% Unemployment - 11/11/2009 8:45:29 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

I agree - that all happened in the Eighties, when Reagan republicans decided to divide the world into "winners" and "losers", what's called a binary mytheme, that happened to fuel a neurotic, Narcissistic obsession with conspicuous consumption and living beyond one's means - it's why the the Laffer curve took a dive - we shifted from a cash economy to a credit/debt economy, from manufacturing to service, from "work hard" to "make money off of other peoples hard work" - the stock market, i.e. work is for losers, investment is for winners, Rich Dad, Poor Dad, etc.

Just as Leave it to Beaver touched off a wave of petty crime (see: perception of inequality), Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous touched of a wave of corporate crime that not only continues unabated, but has taken on an aura of legitimcacy.

Adam Smith was fairly cynical about the stock market himself and didn't really consider it integral to Capitalism.


Great post!
The group of "losers" is growing like wildfire.
A few things are going to have to "give".
Hold on to your seatbelts, it is going to be a bumpy, bumpy ride. 

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to xssve)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: 10.4% Unemployment - 11/17/2009 1:02:19 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Rhetoric no longer serves as a unquestioned dogma, at least for some. Although I've seen very little about this from any national news source. Mostly its covered as an 'oh by the way' story at the end of a news segment.

Somebody has finally started to check. Rep. David Obey, Democrat from Wisconsin, has taken to task the Orwellian sounding 'Recovery Accountability and Transparency Board'. It was this Board's responsibility to report the result of the Stimulus Funds on the jobs market. Reading the specifics, it appears as if the 'Recovery Accountability and Transparency Board' uses the same methods as Wikipedia; "you've got something to 'document', feel free and do so. No verification needed or necessary."

Lets see what's been reported:

For example, Arizona boasts new jobs in 15 of its 25 congressional districts. The problem is, there are only 8 congressional districts in Arizona.
Iowa reports figures for 13 congressional districts, but they have only five congressional districts. Utah reported for seven of its three congressional districts.
I don't think that anyone would try to get away with that post on CM. The next post would be a link to document the Congressional districts in Arizona and Iowa. But the RAT Board, (Gotta LOVE how those initials worked out!) took it and posted it as fact.

In June, the federal government spent $1,047 in stimulus money to buy a rider mower from the Toro Company to cut the grass at the Fayetteville National Cemetery in Arkansas. Now, a report on the government's stimulus Web site improbably claims that that single lawn mower sale helped save or create 50 jobs.That is one of my favorites! Imagine the bureaucrat at the RAT Board excitedly announcing; "Hey check this out! One lawn mower for $1,047 and 50 people off unemployment! Lets go buy 3800 more and put those 190,000 who lost their jobs back to work!" It should be noted however that RAT Board plan wouldn't work in CA unless someone decides to enforce the immigration laws.

This week, The Detroit Free Press reported that Obama's stimulus package has created or retained virtually no jobs in Michigan, despite $1.2 billion in federal spending and the administration's report that it created or retained 22,500 jobs in the Great Lakes State. Three of every four stimulus grants, contracts and loans approved in Michigan created or retained one job or less.Fewer than 700 awards had received some money, and nearly half of those 327 had created one job or less, at a cost per job of $2.7 million.VP Biden, already challenging the math from the OP may want to check those numbers. He's got it at only $92,000 per job nationwide since the inception of the Stimulus.

Here's another very important factor to consider, where the jobs that are real are happening. Over half of them are in the public sector. There one thing about public sector jobs - they cost tax revenue they don't create it. The reports, for all their shortcomings, do provide the first check of how the stimulus bill is working so far. They suggest that more than half the jobs claimed so far are in the public sector - despite the fact that President Obama has said that he expects only 10 percent of stimulus jobs to be in the public sector. Hell, nothing is going "as expected", has it?

At the end of October the Administration claimed to have saved or created 640,000 jobs. What caused the inquiry wasn't political agenda, it was the math. How could that many new jobs be created and unemployment still rise by 190,000 in October alone? The math was so bad it couldn't be ignored.

Representative Obey says; We designed the Recovery Act to be open and transparent and I expect the the Recovery Accountability and Transparency Board, who oversees the recovery act web site and data to have information that is accurate, reliable and understandable to the American public. Whether the numbers are good news or bad news, I want the honest numbers and I want them now. Silly man huh? Shouldn't he just have "faith" that things will get better and damn observable results?!

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: 10.4% Unemployment - 11/17/2009 1:48:14 PM   
SirAldwyn


Posts: 44
Joined: 10/15/2009
Status: offline 		Gee can you find a more partisan report from Detroit,  It must take a lot of time to find all this one sided BS, no wait it really does not, just watch Fox

Interesting how they do not mention the jump from the Cash for clunkers program which every MI auto maker has said was a great success

Ahh but to spew the negative is so easy  

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: 10.4% Unemployment - 11/17/2009 1:50:40 PM   
SirAldwyn


Posts: 44
Joined: 10/15/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirAldwyn

Gee can you find a more partisan report from Detroit,  It must take a lot of time to find all this one sided BS, no wait it really does not, just watch Fox

Interesting how they do not mention the jump from the Cash for clunkers program which every MI auto maker has said was a great success

All I see from you is rhetoric, just pushing tired old GOP lines

Ahh but to spew the negative is so easy  

(in reply to SirAldwyn)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: 10.4% Unemployment - 11/17/2009 2:16:17 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Cash for clunkers was a success if you were a car dealer. It was a boondoggle for the taxpayers. Some estimate that it cost the federal govt. $24,000 per vehicle sold. Great program.

(in reply to SirAldwyn)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: 10.4% Unemployment - 11/17/2009 2:31:44 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I think we all would have been better off if Obama had given all Taxpayers a payment of $20,000 instead of bailing out big corporations.
A lot of those Taxpayers would be spending it on cars, houses, appliances, etc and putting people to work right now.
Go to your local bank and try to get a loan even with above "700" credit scores, you can't! I guess they're hoarding all that money and paying out big bonuses for failure!

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"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: 10.4% Unemployment - 11/17/2009 2:41:37 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirAldwyn
Gee can you find a more partisan report from Detroit,  It must take a lot of time to find all this one sided BS, no wait it really does not, just watch Fox

Interesting how they do not mention the jump from the Cash for clunkers program which every MI auto maker has said was a great success

Ah but to spew the negative is so easy  
Ah, I see another FOX news monitor assuming that's where I get my information! How nice of you to join the group! Was this covered on Fox? You see, YOU would be the only one between us who would know.

Cash for cluckers succeeded in getting rid of old inventory. How's that production on new models working out? How many people have been called back to work? While its CEO, CFO, or Comptroller; depending on perspective, stumped for the Chicago Olympics, GM closed Saturn and its plant. Have they been re-hired to cover the demand for more product and it just didn't get covered by your source, FOX, or any other?

This is about jobs - with Detroit news quoted in the process. Do the same if you have a positive spin!


(in reply to SirAldwyn)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: 10.4% Unemployment - 11/17/2009 4:22:23 PM   
housesub4you


Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline 		So all the reports from Ford, GM and even Dodge where wrong, the program sucked according to you.

To create jobs we need manufacuring, something this country has forgotten about since Reagen, then the fist Bush, and then Clinton, and the last Bush killed any hope so 3 GOP guys and 1 Dem, but still it is the Dems fault

It started to fail with the great Gop'er RR, but history shows him as less, we sold out, and instead of finding a solution, the GOP says "PARTY LINE VOTE PARTY LINE" I see no chance for a recovery when one side has given up and will settle for failure so their party can win

Party line is a loss for this country, but to many will not accept a new leader, they would rather push for failure then work for a united success. 

No need to reply, I just need to look at GOP votes, they rallied against unemployment, then voted for it, they rallied against the war funding, even though they supported it through GWB lies, so really it's nothing more than party lines

In the next election, when it goes party lines don't bitch

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: 10.4% Unemployment - 11/17/2009 4:30:20 PM   
housesub4you


Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline 		 I think it odd that the GOP hold Toyota as the Ideal free market company (GOP Free Market Speech 2005)   Lest they forget that for the first 20 years they got billions form the Japanese government  that allowed then to undercut our auto makers.  Don't believe it, look up papers from the 70"s.  but hell, cheaper labor is only good for the USA, we got sold out when RR first changed the tariffs,. 

But history, hell it's nothing to the USA, we have been around for over 200 years, and we will never fail like all those other who let power and money rule them

(in reply to housesub4you)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: 10.4% Unemployment - 11/17/2009 4:43:22 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Cash for clunkers never created one new job. It emptied the cars lots of too much inventory, again great for the big 3 and the dealers. New car sales dropped off to near nothing when the program ended.

(in reply to housesub4you)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: 10.4% Unemployment - 11/17/2009 6:20:03 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		We had four local dealers close, and one that switched to a Hyundai Dealer. Not sure what has happened at a national level, but the car dealers around here have accounted for negative jobs. Now KIA has opened, or is about to open a new plant close by. That will create a lot of new jobs, but I wonder if KIA qualified for any stimulus money.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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Profile   Post #: 114
RE: 10.4% Unemployment - 11/18/2009 2:36:35 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		One fact stands out, the current rate of job losses is only half of what it was last November and December. I wonder how many unemployed would have been added to those figures if the big financial institutions had gone under ?

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: 10.4% Unemployment - 11/18/2009 2:58:06 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrPBK

NO we sold ourselves out when we went to foreign 'outsourcing'.
And we weakened a whole lot of things when that happened.
We need to return to US Made, US Built; it may cost more but it keeps us employed

MstrPBK
St. Paul, MN USA
Yeah it cost more...but it built a solid middle class....yanno the people that actually bought the goods that cost more.....But our oh so responsible businessmen saw away to maximize the bottom line...hence outsourcing...well now the middle class is getting squeezed and falling into the lower class.....and we can't even afford the cheap shit made by the cheap foreign labor.
Perhaps the sky is falling!


Mike, we agree!
You sound like a Lou Dobbs populist on this. Good man!


PoliteSub, in capitalism if there's a void it gets filled.
If a big bank fails other banks step in to take their business!
It's the job of government to protect the "depositors" in those banks, not the "stockholders."

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 11/18/2009 3:04:01 PM >

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Profile   Post #: 116
RE: 10.4% Unemployment - 11/18/2009 3:22:57 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

One fact stands out, the current rate of job losses is only half of what it was last November and December. I wonder how many unemployed would have been added to those figures if the big financial institutions had gone under ?


Very few in addition due to their demise only. In fact possibly fewer since we might well be further along into recovery.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: 10.4% Unemployment - 11/18/2009 3:38:51 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

One fact stands out, the current rate of job losses is only half of what it was last November and December. I wonder how many unemployed would have been added to those figures if the big financial institutions had gone under ?


Very few in addition due to their demise only. In fact possibly fewer since we might well be further along into recovery.


Very few ? So you are telling me all the bankers who would have lost jobs, would have found work in all the other banks that collapsed ? Thats some interesting spin, even by your standard.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: 10.4% Unemployment - 11/18/2009 3:44:45 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Cash for clunkers never created one new job. It emptied the cars lots of too much inventory, again great for the big 3 and the dealers. New car sales dropped off to near nothing when the program ended.
You people are fucking rediculous...are you and Merc suggesting that those lots and those inventories will never be replenished?
Do either of you get dizzy while you spin what from all reports,save partisan republican quaters(I know Merc....your an independant....yada yada yada)was a massively sucessful program?
"again great for the big 3 and the dealers"....was that not the intended target of the program....did you 2 think the Auto industry could afford to just have those cars sit there?Do dealers employ people?...Do the big three?
Do you guys piss in each others ears and convince yourselves its raining?
Do either of you buy your own bullshit?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: 10.4% Unemployment - 11/18/2009 4:04:33 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

One fact stands out, the current rate of job losses is only half of what it was last November and December. I wonder how many unemployed would have been added to those figures if the big financial institutions had gone under ?


Very few in addition due to their demise only. In fact possibly fewer since we might well be further along into recovery.


Very few ? So you are telling me all the bankers who would have lost jobs, would have found work in all the other banks that collapsed ? Thats some interesting spin, even by your standard.


Their assets would have been bought and most of their employees hired by the acquiring organizations.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 120
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