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RE: Our possible collapse... - 11/7/2009 1:25:18 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		The thing is you cant "just leave".   One has to have a mode of income- for most countries.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Our possible collapse... - 11/7/2009 1:31:09 PM   
Hierodule


Posts: 597
Joined: 9/22/2009
Status: offline 		exactly, Saying "If you don't like it here just leave" is  like telling a kid who grew up in Bahrain "You like America so much??? Why don't you just move there then." Like I said, I would love to live in a different country. Its easier said than done. And it doesn't mean I hate my country just because I want to see what its like somewhere else.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Our possible collapse... - 11/7/2009 1:34:50 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I seen how some are like yeah live cheaply in XYZ country-then upon looking the prices for an American colony ghetto- there in is close to the same price as here.  Not real cheap.  Maybe cheaper then CA- and metros but not cheaper then small towns.

(in reply to Hierodule)
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RE: Our possible collapse... - 11/7/2009 1:47:05 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

In many ways America IS great.   Can we be improved?  You bet.   Does this make other places not great?  Nope.   Home is where you make it.



In many ways every other country in the world is great.

But we have it ingrained into us from grade school on that we are the greatest country that exists or ever existed.

And the blind sheep who have never been out the country, and know nothing about any other country, parrot it as fact.







< Message edited by rulemylife -- 11/7/2009 1:48:28 PM >

(in reply to pahunkboy)
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RE: Our possible collapse... - 11/7/2009 1:47:16 PM   
Hierodule


Posts: 597
Joined: 9/22/2009
Status: offline 		Its not just the expense either you have to get a work visa etc.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Our possible collapse... - 11/7/2009 1:54:03 PM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		i personally love lively debate...AND i live in a country where its absolutely fine to do just that....When someone says they want a "one way ticket" to another country, i'm just exercising my right to agree with them, and encouraging them to do so.

_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
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(in reply to Hierodule)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Our possible collapse... - 11/7/2009 1:55:46 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

i personally love lively debate...AND i live in a country where its absolutely fine to do just that....When someone says they want a "one way ticket" to another country, i'm just exercising my right to agree with them, and encouraging them to do so.


God bless America!

(in reply to breatheasone)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Our possible collapse... - 11/7/2009 2:05:24 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		The US was officially 233 years old on July 4th, 2009. The first explorations to the US was in the 16th century. Compared to almost every other country, we are toddlers. Yet, we have had countries beg for our military assistance, have had heads of states beg for assylum. We have become, financially, a world power. Our stock market has made many people rich beyond belief.

Compared to the rest of the world, we have made the same mistakes... slavery... bigotry... treasonous acts, ect. We managed, as a nation, to overcome many of the things, but still have more to work on.

We arent the greatest. We arent the best. We seem to be the one nation all the others turn too when trouble looms. I, for one, am tired of dealing with the problems overseas while having our own ignored.

We are a good nation, with an overall good belief system and a desire to improve.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Our possible collapse... - 11/7/2009 2:06:29 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Yes but America is not a once and done product.    It is evolving.   The freedoms one presumes we have and will continue to have are guesses.

Blind patriotism IS dangerous.

It also is dangerous the presume America will not make mistake of other empires.   We are not immune to that.


Don't take it for granted.

It floors me when people think we wont commit mistakes of other nations-  we do- we have - and it is not entirely clear the results of such mistakes.

School for me was alot of rah rah- but there was also a good bit on ask questions- question authority.    

So loyalty to a point- yeah- but to be overly sold on America the brand name is foolish.   Where is the beef?  Show me the money.   That is my outlook.  If I am too demanding- then I guess that is how it is.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Our possible collapse... - 11/7/2009 2:13:16 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The US was officially 233 years old on July 4th, 2009. The first explorations to the US was in the 16th century. Compared to almost every other country, we are toddlers. Yet, we have had countries beg for our military assistance, have had heads of states beg for assylum. We have become, financially, a world power. Our stock market has made many people rich beyond belief.

Compared to the rest of the world, we have made the same mistakes... slavery... bigotry... treasonous acts, ect. We managed, as a nation, to overcome many of the things, but still have more to work on.

We arent the greatest. We arent the best. We seem to be the one nation all the others turn too when trouble looms. I, for one, am tired of dealing with the problems overseas while having our own ignored.

We are a good nation, with an overall good belief system and a desire to improve.



Which is different from saying "this here is the best goddamned nation the world has ever known".

Which just happens to be the propagandist bullshit that far too many Americans believe.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Our possible collapse... - 11/7/2009 2:18:58 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		The one thing i do love about the US... and i cant say this is true for other nations because i dont know... is that we may fight like cats and dogs amongst ourselves... but we will turn like rabid dogs on anyone who tries to step between us. Just like family

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Our possible collapse... - 11/7/2009 2:27:04 PM   
Lucienne


Posts: 1175
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The one thing i do love about the US... and i cant say this is true for other nations because i dont know... is that we may fight like cats and dogs amongst ourselves... but we will turn like rabid dogs on anyone who tries to step between us. Just like family


Yep. I remember how we all banded together when the Soviets invaded through Alaska and the Cubans and Nicaraguans came up through Mexico. Wait. That was a movie. We haven't actually been invaded since...I don't  know War of 1812?

It really is the height of American exceptionalism/silliness to think that the "joining together to fight the invaders" is some dynamic special to us. I'm pretty sure it's human nature. The definition of "us" has just gotten broader in the modern age of the nation state.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Our possible collapse... - 11/7/2009 2:29:37 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Tazz, on our involvement- I view the US as meddling in many others affairs. For every problem we solve we create 3 more.  Then we are so far in- we cant get out of it.

Interview with John Perkins author of "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man"

http://video.google.com/videosearch?sourceid=gmail&rls=gm&q=john%20perkins&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wv#

So it could be a wash between US being everywhere..... 

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Our possible collapse... - 11/7/2009 2:29:40 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

The thing is you cant "just leave".   One has to have a mode of income- for most countries.



Then you have every opportunity to educate yourself for a new job before you go.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Our possible collapse... - 11/7/2009 2:30:34 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I never said it was special to us. In fact, i do believe... and im sure you will check my post... i said i wasnt sure about anywhere else. Of course, that opens any other person from other countries to say the exact same thing. hmmm.. curious how that equates it to being "special to us"

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Lucienne)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Our possible collapse... - 11/7/2009 2:30:47 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I seen how some are like yeah live cheaply in XYZ country-then upon looking the prices for an American colony ghetto- there in is close to the same price as here.  Not real cheap.  Maybe cheaper then CA- and metros but not cheaper then small towns.



Then assimilate. Your leaving to get away from America, why go to a predominately American area?

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Our possible collapse... - 11/7/2009 2:31:47 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

In many ways America IS great.   Can we be improved?  You bet.   Does this make other places not great?  Nope.   Home is where you make it.



In many ways every other country in the world is great.

But we have it ingrained into us from grade school on that we are the greatest country that exists or ever existed.

And the blind sheep who have never been out the country, and know nothing about any other country, parrot it as fact.









And those of us who travel extensively, and those of us who know dozens of ex-pats from other countries know it is a fact.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Our possible collapse... - 11/7/2009 2:32:47 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Tazz, on our involvement- I view the US as meddling in many others affairs. For every problem we solve we create 3 more.  Then we are so far in- we cant get out of it.

Interview with John Perkins author of "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man"

http://video.google.com/videosearch?sourceid=gmail&rls=gm&q=john%20perkins&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wv#

So it could be a wash between US being everywhere..... 



I agree, in part, with you. We do tend to get ourselves in over our heads when other countries come calling.. or begging.. if you will. Yet, as a "super" power, how do we say no? Especially when the egos in office see a way to reap rewards (spelled profits now).

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Our possible collapse... - 11/7/2009 2:55:16 PM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hierodule

quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

quote:

ORIGINAL: aphotic


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

It can take a lot. With all of its problems, this is still the greatest Country the world has ever seen, and always will be. When you see people trying to flee America to Europe, Russia or the Middle East, let me know. They are all still trying to get here..


You have some red, white, and blue shit on your lip... would you like a moist towelette? But congratulations, you are exactly why the world hates Americans and spits on your food when you take exotic trips to.... PARIS!

If being proud of your country gets you hated, then BRING ON THE HATE!.....i am PROUD of my country, if anyone wants to hate because of that, so be it.

Edited to add: BECAUSE this is a free country, Anyone that thinks its really that awful here is FREE to LEAVE!...... So  Hierodule    by all means....take your "one way" trip to another country ENJOY!



Ummm I think there is a difference between being proud of your country and claiming it is better than every other country in the world. I was also poking fun at the style of the "exotic trip to... PARIS" post. I thought it was funny.

I can't afford to go to paris for a week let alone move there. But I would love the chance to see what living in another country is like.  I think its good to immerse yourself in other cultures. I personally have never lived in a foreign country. I never said it was awful here. However, it would be really hard for me to claim that America is the best nation in the world because I have nothing to compare it to. It is the only place I have ever lived.  How many countries have you been a citizen of ? Wouldn't you have to go  to go to another nation and experience what it is like to live there in order to claim your nation is the best? I am totally open to new experiences and would jump at the chance to live somewhere new and (to me) exotic.

Sorry if I offended your deep patriotism. I really don't see why it was neccessary to link to my profile since anyone who wants to check me out can click my profile pic. But hey what ever floats your boat.



Very well said Hierodule.

I am involved with an american from this page since a year by now and we had recently a clash as he does not get the point why I so seriously dislike living in the UK (and yes, I will leave, it might not be possible in 2010 but I aim for 2011).

He was living in Germany for 3 years (where I am from) and enjoyed living there as it is according to him a slower pace of living there...if I would not live in the UK I would not know what the heck he is talking about but since I live here now since 5 years I do know what he meant even when I have never been to america (apart from airports)...I learned to value my country of origin a lot since I am here which included a lot about certain systems we have in place (in regards to how you get into the job market and the health care provided). For me it was simply a different level of quality of life.

One of the things I am not happy with in the UK is the enourmous waiting times you have here if you get referred and that you have no influence whatsoever who you get referred to...I am used to call the specialist myself, hence I decide WHOM I want an opinion from and can even refer myself if I want to and don't need my GP for that (and would have an appointment in 1-14 days instead of waiting up to 6 months like here).

He tried to argue with me about my negative view about the health care here and I tried to show him a comparison from the UK to Germany...I did not find it but heck, I even found one comparing Germany to the US...

http://www.amiexpat.com/2009/08/18/health-care-in-germany/

someone else, not him, also made once the comment about "everyone would want to go to the US as they could get everything there"...well...Farrah Fawcett actually did not get everything in her country...as she travelled to Germany to get alternative treatment which seems not to be allowed in the US (and according to her last documentary about her battle with cancer it gave her 18 months longer to live).

http://www.theinsider.com/news/380686_Farrah_Fawcett_Seeks_Alternative_Cancer_Treatment_in_Germany#

So whilst I am NOT saying that this or that country is superior to any other country...it simply is true what Hierodule says...go out and live in another country for several years...then your view might change about your country or about the other country.

The only reason why I don't go back home now is as what I am studying is not available in my country (work wise) since several years, whereas in UK, New Zealand and Australia my job is in huge demand...however, if I dislike my next destination as much as living over here...then I know I will go back home and if necessary work in my previous job again as health care and general cost of living are very important factors for me to decide where I am living (I did enjoy this job, however for now it is more important to earn well in what I am studying as after all I have to pay off my student debts, too).





However, just because I do value my country more now, does not mean that I think my country is superior. He disagrees with many aspects which I absolutely support...and so yes, actually living in another country for a few years...

_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

(in reply to Hierodule)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Our possible collapse... - 11/7/2009 11:23:39 PM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		Just because i express pride in my country, doesn't mean i think its the only country in the world with good qualities. Thats just absurd.

_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

(in reply to Phoenixpower)
Profile   Post #: 60
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