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RE: coming to terms with a false accusation - 11/9/2009 7:22:46 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

Now you're getting it, frazzle!
Rule #1- It's always the s- type's fault
Rule #2- If it somehow is not the s-type's fault, then it has to be at least partially the s-type's fault.
Rule #3- If the Dom completely screws the pooch and acts like an asshat, see Rules 1 & 2



Please point out where, anywhere in this thread, I have used the word "fault". Please.

If she genuinely cares about her D-type and/or if you genuinely care about the situation she is having problems with, making comical mockeries for strawman fanfare is only detracting from the situation.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 11/9/2009 7:23:13 PM >


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(in reply to WyldHrt)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: coming to terms with a false accusation - 11/9/2009 7:44:57 PM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

Please point out where, anywhere in this thread, I have used the word "fault". Please.

That wasn't actually directed at you personally, NZ. I just get very tired of reading posts where the sub is told to apologize and beg and fix hir behaviour and whatnot.... with no evidence that xhe did anything wrong in the first place. That may be some folks' reality, but it isn't mine. Sorry NZ, but in my relationship, I'm expected to face my screw ups and learn from them... and *take my subbie card now* I expect the same from him. Why would I be with someone who isn't willing to admit that he made a mistake?

quote:

If she genuinely cares about her D-type and/or if you genuinely care about the situation she is having problems with, making comical mockeries for strawman fanfare is only detracting from the situation.

It wasn't a comical mockery, it was a bit of roundabout commentary on the attitude of certain folks.

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(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: coming to terms with a false accusation - 11/9/2009 8:04:53 PM   
catize


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When we feel defensive emotions can overwhelm rational thought. It is probably too late for this particular situation, but I would give this advice for the future. Don't let the discussion deteriorate to “I did not!”/ “Yes you did”/(repeat.) (repeat)
I would ask him to tell me which of my actions led him to conclude that I had been manipulative. I would listen to what he had to say. I would try to see it from his perspective. And then I would ask him what he thinks I need to do differently next time to avoid being seen as manipulative.
It isn't about whose perceptions are right or wrong, or whose perceptions trump reality. It isn't about arguing our good intentions.
It should be about our willingness to learn how our partner is affected by our behaviors, and how to change those behaviors in order to promote harmony.

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Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to lucylucy)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: coming to terms with a false accusation - 11/9/2009 8:16:08 PM   
InvisibleBlack


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lucylucy
He hasn’t withdrawn all trust, but it is so hard to swallow that he thinks I would 1) manipulate a situation and then 2) lie about it. It does make me feel less willing to be open with him, which is a big problem for obvious reasons. It’s the kind of problem that becomes more and more of an issue as time goes by, which is why I really want to resolve it now, despite his saying that discussion of it is over.


I'm glad to hear that you're calmer after some time and consideration.

From the Dom side of things, I'd have major issues in any sort of relationship where I felt that trust had been violated. While there's always "different strokes for different folks" for me, openness, honesty and trust are core to a successful relationship. Something that damaged my faith or trust in a sub wouldn't be something I could let go of - it would be something that would have to come to a resolution, one way or the other.

There's a big difference between differences of opinion or interpretation, or miscommunication, and dishonesty.

If what he's said is not that the matter is closed, but simply that the conversation you were having is over. I would wait until everything had cooled down to the point of reasonable discussion and then gently bring to his attention that there's a matter which is really bothering you. Don't be accusatory. Start with "I think that you feel this way..." and explain how that makes you feel.

In general I think a lot of ground can be recovered by clearing the air - not in a "You said" - "I said" sort of way but more in a "I think you were upset with me because you feel I..." or "I didn't know A, B or C and so it never occurred to me that..."

I'd be much more upset over someone hiding something that was really bothering them from me than with presenting me with a problem they have. In general I find that if both partners can be honest with each other, and both mean well and care about each other, talking things through can result in a stronger bond rather than hurting things.

It's tough to shut down all communication when your sub comes to you and says "I know you're unhappy, and I want to please you, so I need you to help me understand why this is a problem and what I can do to make things better".

I hope it all works out.

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(in reply to lucylucy)
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RE: coming to terms with a false accusation - 11/9/2009 8:26:33 PM   
shinylight7


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we all want our needs to be met.  it is not about right or wrong. just getting what we need out of the relationship, whatever flavor we are.

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: coming to terms with a false accusation - 11/9/2009 11:48:35 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lucylucy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoquilisGirl

Yup. Same answer here. From what you've told us, OP, he sounds completely unreasonable and I would not want to be in a relationship with someone who thought I was a liar.

SG


Seriously?  What is so unreasonable about someone asking their partner to stop going over the same thing over and over again?
Everyones concentrating on the whole ' my dom calls me a liar' thing.  That isn't in the post.  What he did was tell her he felt she was manipulating sometimes and she doesn't get it/see it and wanting some sort of justification for his thoughts keeps bugging him with it instead of dropping it and learning from the experience.

And he is the unreasonable one?

the.dark.


Actually, he didn't say he felt my behavior was manipulative sometimes. He accused me of being manipulative ONE time. He did not tell me to stop bringing it up over and over again. He told me the ONE discussion we had about it was over. I have no idea where you got the part about me bugging him over and over. Seriously--did you even read my original post?


Here
quote:

Let’s say you’ve tried to explain and he’s now just tired of your protests, and he says the discussion is over and you’re not to bring it up again.


I never meant multiple, but you said he didnt want to keep hearing your protests - your words.

the.dark.

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(in reply to lucylucy)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: coming to terms with a false accusation - 11/9/2009 11:58:54 PM   
RCdc


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To the OP -
I am not saying it's a her fault, fault thing.  And I will apologise to you if you felt that is what I said because that is a misunderstanding and I was obviously not clear.
However I was noticing the whole 'I'd dump him' attitude that came across - I absolutely believe in looking it from both sides if you can and seeing where miscommunication might come into it.  It's not a his fault/her fault blame game kind of thing.  As wyld is tired of reading posts where the s-type is expected to apologise, I am noticing the usual and growing advice that the dominant is automatically an arse and unreasonable.
It takes two people to make a relationship work - unless it's poly of course.

the.dark.

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RE: coming to terms with a false accusation - 11/10/2009 2:02:12 AM   
ranja


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lucylucy

quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

I also said
or is your part in the situation misunderstood by him? maybe you were manipulating with good intentions, but he did not like it


I don’t think it’s fair to see that I WAS manipulating unless I had no part in the situation. I did have a part in the situation. As I said in a previous post, I did do something, but whether I did it with knowledge of a few facts or without is what makes the difference between manipulation and not-manipulation.

(And no, this isn’t about wanting to know what happened with the other woman.)




Thank you for answering, i did wonder about the cause (none of my business i know, but nosey nevertheless)

as was mentioned before: we all manipulate, we just do, normally it is not bad at all... it is just that when another would call you forinstance a manipulative bitch that it becomes a negative thing really

but it seems that this man of yours has some insecurity issues and if you can not convince him that you are not conspiring against him, than that is his problem, not yours... i would be inclined to take Drifa's advice


(in reply to lucylucy)
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RE: coming to terms with a false accusation - 11/10/2009 3:02:32 AM   
Eigenaar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: frazzle

Correct me if i'm wrong, but under your premise. if he accused me of having an affair and i hadnt, the fact he thought i had and wouldnt listen to the truth. means im somehow in the wrong for him getting that impression!!!!

Did you miss the entire side topic of interpretative vs. verifiable acts?

Having an affair is two parts: an act and an interpretation of that act. If both you and he agreed that you did an act, but you felt it wasn't an "affair" or "cheating", but he did, then it isn't about him being wrong or you being right.
There is a universal law saying this? In other threads you go on about the absence of a universal law on a certain topic granting to do as one pleases and that there is no interpretation.

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: coming to terms with a false accusation - 11/10/2009 3:12:19 AM   
Eigenaar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

To the OP -
I am not saying it's a her fault, fault thing.  And I will apologise to you if you felt that is what I said because that is a misunderstanding and I was obviously not clear.
However I was noticing the whole 'I'd dump him' attitude that came across - I absolutely believe in looking it from both sides if you can and seeing where miscommunication might come into it.  It's not a his fault/her fault blame game kind of thing.  As wyld is tired of reading posts where the s-type is expected to apologise, I am noticing the usual and growing advice that the dominant is automatically an arse and unreasonable.
It takes two people to make a relationship work - unless it's poly of course.

the.dark.
The OP speaks of a D who sees ghosts were there are none and holds others responsible for his erratic behaviour, without consultation.

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: coming to terms with a false accusation - 11/10/2009 6:33:59 AM   
DesFIP


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I am astonished at how many people seem to feel it's okay for a dom to treat a sub as though she was the ex, and that this is acceptable and reasonable. To me, it would be like someone else lying in bed with us and me expected to ignore that third person suddenly appearing.

He's stopped me before by saying "I'm not your ex, I won't do that to you". I've stopped him the same way. But if he can't get over his last relationship, then he shouldn't have gotten into a new one. In the meantime since he is and is screwing it up royally, I'd make pointed comments about him needing to get help to deal with this since he can't do it himself. And if it were me, I'd expect the same.

The trust lost can be rebuilt if he's willing to. But it's a lot of work. And it can't happen if one person refuses to communicate.

Unfortunately there is a draw for many people to be a dominant in a d/s relationship so that they don't have to talk to their partner, so that they don't have to be open or vulnerable. They want a relationship that is totally one sided and somehow believe that claiming they're the dom/me is how to get it. Of course it backfires just as is does when a s type puts on a face of having no needs and always being pleased to do the d's bidding. People who get into quasirelationships with these hidden agendas will always have them implode sooner or later.

But like land mines, they tend to take out not the person they were aimed at (the ex) but at the new person who is innocent.

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(in reply to WyldHrt)
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RE: coming to terms with a false accusation - 11/10/2009 5:36:14 PM   
Huntertn


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There are times when its better to agree to disagree rather than beat a horse to death with it. fact is, what many see as manipulative can depend on both their backgrounds are. Nothing in life is a simple as it seems when feelings are involved

(in reply to LaTigresse)
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RE: coming to terms with a false accusation - 11/10/2009 6:07:23 PM   
lucylucy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: lucylucy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoquilisGirl

Yup. Same answer here. From what you've told us, OP, he sounds completely unreasonable and I would not want to be in a relationship with someone who thought I was a liar.

SG


Seriously?  What is so unreasonable about someone asking their partner to stop going over the same thing over and over again?
Everyones concentrating on the whole ' my dom calls me a liar' thing.  That isn't in the post.  What he did was tell her he felt she was manipulating sometimes and she doesn't get it/see it and wanting some sort of justification for his thoughts keeps bugging him with it instead of dropping it and learning from the experience.

And he is the unreasonable one?

the.dark.


Actually, he didn't say he felt my behavior was manipulative sometimes. He accused me of being manipulative ONE time. He did not tell me to stop bringing it up over and over again. He told me the ONE discussion we had about it was over. I have no idea where you got the part about me bugging him over and over. Seriously--did you even read my original post?


Here
quote:

Let’s say you’ve tried to explain and he’s now just tired of your protests, and he says the discussion is over and you’re not to bring it up again.


I never meant multiple, but you said he didnt want to keep hearing your protests - your words.

the.dark.


OK, I see. The multiple protests were all in the same conversation.

_____________________________

“There are those who give with joy, & that joy is their reward.” Gibran / "Those who are willing to be vulnerable move among mysteries." Roethke / "Let the beauty we love be what we do. There are hundreds of ways to kneel & kiss the ground." Rumi

(in reply to RCdc)
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RE: coming to terms with a false accusation - 11/10/2009 6:10:32 PM   
lucylucy


Posts: 612
Joined: 3/1/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

To the OP -
I am not saying it's a her fault, fault thing.  And I will apologise to you if you felt that is what I said because that is a misunderstanding and I was obviously not clear.
However I was noticing the whole 'I'd dump him' attitude that came across - I absolutely believe in looking it from both sides if you can and seeing where miscommunication might come into it.  It's not a his fault/her fault blame game kind of thing.  As wyld is tired of reading posts where the s-type is expected to apologise, I am noticing the usual and growing advice that the dominant is automatically an arse and unreasonable.
It takes two people to make a relationship work - unless it's poly of course.

the.dark.


I never said I was going to dump him--never even considered it. Yes, that's a theme in this thread, but it's not coming from me. And I never asked anyone to pin blame on him or me. I asked for help coping, not help blaming or dumping. We had an argument that I felt ended unfairly and I wanted help coming to terms with it.

No worries about the misunderstanding. It's so hard to commicate in words to a bunch of people a situation that is emotionally frought and with a ton of context (as all situations are).

_____________________________

“There are those who give with joy, & that joy is their reward.” Gibran / "Those who are willing to be vulnerable move among mysteries." Roethke / "Let the beauty we love be what we do. There are hundreds of ways to kneel & kiss the ground." Rumi

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: coming to terms with a false accusation - 11/10/2009 6:11:04 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lucylucy

Let’s say you’re having a heated discussion or argument with your D type in which he says things he believes to be true about you but are not—for example, he believes you’ve manipulated a situation but you, in fact, have not. It becomes clear that no amount of explanation from you will dissuade him from his belief, even though the thing he thinks you have done is inconsistent with your general behavior. Let’s say you’ve tried to explain and he’s now just tired of your protests, and he says the discussion is over and you’re not to bring it up again.

How do you mentally adjust to giving up on setting the record straight?

I’m really struggling with this. Please don’t tell me to try honest discussion. Believe me, at this point, any more discussion of it will make things worse. He believes something about me, there is absolutely nothing I can do to change his mind, and now I have to deal with that.

Thank you for any advice or suggestions you can offer.


It is difficult to comment without knowing the behavior that caused the problem. However, the ultimate answer is in continuing your "general behavior" and demonstrating (not discussing) its inconsistency with the "aberrant behavior".

(in reply to lucylucy)
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RE: coming to terms with a false accusation - 11/10/2009 6:12:45 PM   
CaringandReal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lucylucy

Let’s say you’re having a heated discussion or argument with your D type in which he says things he believes to be true about you but are not—for example, he believes you’ve manipulated a situation but you, in fact, have not. It becomes clear that no amount of explanation from you will dissuade him from his belief, even though the thing he thinks you have done is inconsistent with your general behavior. Let’s say you’ve tried to explain and he’s now just tired of your protests, and he says the discussion is over and you’re not to bring it up again.

How do you mentally adjust to giving up on setting the record straight?

I’m really struggling with this. Please don’t tell me to try honest discussion. Believe me, at this point, any more discussion of it will make things worse. He believes something about me, there is absolutely nothing I can do to change his mind, and now I have to deal with that.

Thank you for any advice or suggestions you can offer.


I don't like "D type" because it tells me very little about the exact nature of the relationship, and sometimes you need to know the latter in order to give a relevant response. I'm not blaming you, a lot of people that term around here, but there's a generality to it that doesn't make it easy to talk directly to someone at times.

You've got lots of answers already. I hope you found what you need. I'll add my view just in case it hasn't yet been expressed. I don't know what sort of relationship you're in, but if it's master/slave then I'm with the "just drop it and even though you didn't do it, try to do better" crowd. If you aren't in that sort of relationship, best look at other kinds of responses rather than mine, as mine doesn't make a lot of sense outside that context. I can't advise on the best thing for sub/dom, I don't have a lot of experience with that dynamic and don't comprehend (internally) the rules.

If you're still with me, I'll assume it's master/slave. As for how you adjust to giving up? (the other option, setting the record straight, is a no-go, IMO) You think about what a perversely delicious thrill it is to not be able to even clear your good name if he says no, the matter is ended. You ever do any ponygirl or puppy play and get an intense shiver as you think, "My god, I'm not even human!" Or have you even been tied up very tight, tried your hardest to escape the bonds, and failed, and realized, perhaps with a shudder of fear..."Oh shit, I'm stuck here. He could do anything he wanted to me, anything, and I could not stop him. I could not even try to run away." Ok, that sort of thing, that thrilling realization of powerlessness, however you get it, is the thing you want to strive to feel at moments like these. Yes it's unfair, yes in a sense he is wrong (in another sense he isn't), yes you want to be seen as the good person that you are, but... No, this is not a vanilla relationship where you have every right to expect that from him and can badger him to death if he doesn't respect you and hear/beleive your side of things. "Fairness" is not usually a clause written into these sorts of arrangements. "Obedience" is, however, and if you make your need for obedience searing hot, you won't notice a few slings and arrows against the old ego. In fact, you'll probably welcome, even relish them!

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(in reply to lucylucy)
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RE: coming to terms with a false accusation - 11/10/2009 7:06:39 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lucylucy
We had an argument that I felt ended unfairly and I wanted help coming to terms with it.


One of the ways of coping is to change your expectations. You are struggling because you expect things to be fair. Life isn't fair and if you expect it to be you will be disappointed. If you are in a relationship with an inequality in authority, it is going to be even less fair.

Another way of coping is to make the decision that when differences of opinions or issues come up in the future that rather than trying to prove the other is wrong, that you get on the same side and do what is best for the relationship. Rather than saying "I am right and you are wrong" say "what do we need to do to resolve this so it doesn't have a negative impact on our relationship".

At first it can be rather hard, because we like to be right, but is being right at the expense of the relationship worth it?

Knight's Kyra




_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to lucylucy)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: coming to terms with a false accusation - 11/10/2009 7:23:07 PM   
lucylucy


Posts: 612
Joined: 3/1/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists


quote:

ORIGINAL: lucylucy
We had an argument that I felt ended unfairly and I wanted help coming to terms with it.


One of the ways of coping is to change your expectations. You are struggling because you expect things to be fair. Life isn't fair and if you expect it to be you will be disappointed. If you are in a relationship with an inequality in authority, it is going to be even less fair.

Another way of coping is to make the decision that when differences of opinions or issues come up in the future that rather than trying to prove the other is wrong, that you get on the same side and do what is best for the relationship. Rather than saying "I am right and you are wrong" say "what do we need to do to resolve this so it doesn't have a negative impact on our relationship".

At first it can be rather hard, because we like to be right, but is being right at the expense of the relationship worth it?

Knight's Kyra





This advice, combined with the fortune I got in my fortune cookie tonight ("truth always seeks the light of day"--kind of like someone's advice above about how sooner or later, whether you're pregnant or not will become obvious), is very helpful and helps me think about all this productively. Thanks.

And I want to thank everyone who has posted advice here, once again. It's so helpful to get the different perspectives on a situation. I get tunnel vision when I'm upset. Seeing how others think about and handle this type of situation has helped me better understand my options and my reactions.

For the morbidly curious, my boyfriend and I have resolved things. I took bits and pieces of advice from many of you and feel very good about where things are now.

_____________________________

“There are those who give with joy, & that joy is their reward.” Gibran / "Those who are willing to be vulnerable move among mysteries." Roethke / "Let the beauty we love be what we do. There are hundreds of ways to kneel & kiss the ground." Rumi

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RE: coming to terms with a false accusation - 11/10/2009 8:55:09 PM   
breatheasone


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Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

For the morbidly curious, my boyfriend and I have resolved things. I took bits and pieces of advice from many of you and feel very good about where things are now.


WTF? Why would you call anyone morbidly curious? If people gave you the courtesy of replying to you, why are they morbidly curious for wanting to know how you are?


_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

(in reply to lucylucy)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: coming to terms with a false accusation - 11/10/2009 9:03:36 PM   
lucylucy


Posts: 612
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quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

quote:

For the morbidly curious, my boyfriend and I have resolved things. I took bits and pieces of advice from many of you and feel very good about where things are now.


WTF? Why would you call anyone morbidly curious? If people gave you the courtesy of replying to you, why are they morbidly curious for wanting to know how you are?



I didn't mean to offend anyone. Bad choice of words. I know some people DON'T want to know the personal details and feel any bit of personal info is TMI.

_____________________________

“There are those who give with joy, & that joy is their reward.” Gibran / "Those who are willing to be vulnerable move among mysteries." Roethke / "Let the beauty we love be what we do. There are hundreds of ways to kneel & kiss the ground." Rumi

(in reply to breatheasone)
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