RE: Welfare Queen threatens to "Go Galt"

RE: Welfare Queen threatens to "Go Galt" (Full Version)

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Raiikun -> RE: Welfare Queen threatens to "Go Galt" (11/12/2009 6:21:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl The income restrictions have been spoken about for longer than three months. to whine about it now seems alot hypocritical. Oh btw, in case you weren't aware, what set off Benmosche to getting fed up, was another pay restriction that was just implemented November 1st.

Hierodule -> RE: Welfare Queen threatens to "Go Galt" (11/12/2009 6:22:47 AM)
He is threatening to leave because he can't pay executives more than half a million a year. He swears he can't turn AIG around UNLESS he pays people more than that. He is upset with the government because they gave AIG a ton of cash and then have the audacity to try to dictate where that money goes. He is happy with the bail out not happy with salary caps. If he doesn't want to play under the new rules then fuck him. WE paid good money for these new rules and we deserve to see them enforced.If he doesn't like it get someone else. Someone new with new ideas who can get a staff of NEW executives. Maybe a new CEO could hire some of the fresh MBAs who can't find a job for the life of them because the financial industry was so fuckked up by his cronies. These kids will not only have new ideas they will be HAPPY to make half a million.

Raiikun -> RE: Welfare Queen threatens to "Go Galt" (11/12/2009 6:31:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hierodule He is threatening to leave because he can't pay executives more than half a million a year. He swears he can't turn AIG around UNLESS he pays people more than that. Other companies are still allowed to pay execs more than half a million a year. Analysts are concerned that talent will jump ship to other companies who are allowed to pay them a lot more. quote: He is upset with the government because they gave AIG a ton of cash and then have the audacity to try to dictate where that money goes. He is happy with the bail out not happy with salary caps. Are you aware he didn't work at AIG during the bailout? He was quite happily retired. One of the guys on MSNBC said he was rather against wanting to go back to work in the first place, and was suprised that he consented to do it. (He didn't particularly need the 1 million dollars a year). So, on what basis do you say that he was "Happy with the bailout?" quote: If he doesn't want to play under the new rules then fuck him. WE paid good money for these new rules and we deserve to see them enforced.If he doesn't like it get someone else. Always an option. Benmosche is extremely talented though, which is why he was chosen to try and clean up the mess, and why the Board begged him to stay when he threatened to leave. quote: Someone new with new ideas who can get a staff of NEW executives. Maybe a new CEO could hire some of the fresh MBAs who can't find a job for the life of them because the financial industry was so fuckked up by his cronies. These kids will not only have new ideas they will be HAPPY to make half a million. Sure, cause that's what a failing economy needs, a bunch of people with no experience to further run it into the ground.

tazzygirl -> RE: Welfare Queen threatens to "Go Galt" (11/12/2009 6:32:01 AM)
Holding on to people who were at the center of the near collapse of a company is fiscially unsound. Even Libby had issues with the new pay structure for fear of losing such incompetence. The new bonus pay out was renegotiated after they realized they were in deep shit. This company should have followed Lehman's. As far as working with the government, wasnt it the government who hired him for this position? Didnt he know the government owned controlling interest? How intelligent does it sound to assume he wouldnt have to deal with them. http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2009/11/11/poor-poor-robert-benmosche/ A.I.G. had set up a special bonus pool for the financial products unit early in 2008, before the company’s near collapse, when problems stemming from the mortgage crisis were becoming clear and there were concerns that some of the best-informed derivatives specialists might leave. It locked in a total amount, $450 million, for the financial products unit and prepared to pay it in a series of installments, to encourage people to stay. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/15/business/15AIG.html I have no sympathy for this crew and i make no excuses for having none.

servantforuse -> RE: Welfare Queen threatens to "Go Galt" (11/12/2009 6:38:05 AM)
Robert Benmosche is not going anywhere. The board of directors hired him to turn AIG around and that is what he will do. So what if he spends some time at his vineyard. Obama is spending more time on the golf course than any previous president but that isn't a concern.

Raiikun -> RE: Welfare Queen threatens to "Go Galt" (11/12/2009 6:38:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Holding on to people who were at the center of the near collapse of a company is fiscially unsound. Good thing the people responsible were well gone. quote: Didnt he know the government owned controlling interest? How intelligent does it sound to assume he wouldnt have to deal with them. I'm sure he was aware. Maybe he hoped that the government would have a little more sense. Apparently it only took 3 months for him to realize otherwise. quote: I have no sympathy for this crew and i make no excuses for having none. Good thing he didn't ask for any sympathy. He's worth many millions of dollars, and didn't wanna come out of retirement in the first place. It's our investment in AIG that would get hurt by his leaving; he'd probably be quite happy just returning to his vinyards on the Adriatic.

Hierodule -> RE: Welfare Queen threatens to "Go Galt" (11/12/2009 6:41:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun Sure, cause that's what a failing economy needs, a bunch of people with no experience to further run it into the ground. because the people with experience really did a great job didn't they? Who fucked it up to begin with? "Talented" "experienced" people thats who. Get some new blood in there. Pronto. He might not have been with the company when it went under, but cluster-fuck scam jobs that enormous don't happen over night. He was smart enough to retire before the shit hit the fan. So what? If you think he came out of retirement selflessly just for the good of the company and the country that I have some beachfront property in AZ I'd like to sell you.

Raiikun -> RE: Welfare Queen threatens to "Go Galt" (11/12/2009 6:50:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hierodule quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun Sure, cause that's what a failing economy needs, a bunch of people with no experience to further run it into the ground. because the people with experience really did a great job didn't they? Who fucked it up to begin with? "Talented" "experienced" people thats who. Get some new blood in there. Pronto. The people who fucked AIG up are already not part of the picture. There's a lot of good talent there already who's already wrapped up many billions of dollars in loose ends left by the disaster...these are people we want at AIG to remain and fix the mess left by those who already left AIG. quote: So what? If you think he came out of retirement selflessly just for the good of the company and the country that I have some beachfront property in AZ I'd like to sell you. I said no such thing. I'm well aware he's being paid competitively for his work, though it's obvious he didn't have to come out of retirement either. But is it to hard to believe there was some good will there to go along with the financial motivation? Or is the bigotry against the wealthy really just that strong?

rulemylife -> RE: Welfare Queen threatens to "Go Galt" (11/12/2009 6:51:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun Other companies are still allowed to pay execs more than half a million a year. Analysts are concerned that talent will jump ship to other companies who are allowed to pay them a lot more. Talent? Did you really just say that? You mean the talent that drove AIG to the brink of bankruptcy and ended up costing us to bail them out? quote: Are you aware he didn't work at AIG during the bailout? He was quite happily retired. One of the guys on MSNBC said he was rather against wanting to go back to work in the first place, and was suprised that he consented to do it. (He didn't particularly need the 1 million dollars a year). So, on what basis do you say that he was "Happy with the bailout?" You mean he came out of retirement to take the job, then looked around the company and was completely astonished to find it was in piss-poor shape and had a government bailout? That must have quite a rude surprise for him. quote: Always an option. Benmosche is extremely talented though, which is why he was chosen to try and clean up the mess, and why the Board begged him to stay when he threatened to leave. Another con job foisted on shareholders so the top executives can reap millions. No one is that "talented". But while we are on that subject, can you explain to me what he is so "talented" at? It seems as if people have been running companies for a long time without the grossly exaggerated pay structure that has come into play in the last 20 years. quote: Sure, cause that's what a failing economy needs, a bunch of people with no experience to further run it into the ground. Absolutely. Much better to stick with those who already have experience running it into the ground. At least we'll know to expect mediocrity.

tazzygirl -> RE: Welfare Queen threatens to "Go Galt" (11/12/2009 6:53:49 AM)
His "talent" lied with MetLife, rule. seems he took that mutual company and went public with it. netting himself quite a bit of money. that is his talent.

Raiikun -> RE: Welfare Queen threatens to "Go Galt" (11/12/2009 6:59:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife Did you really just say that? You mean the talent that drove AIG to the brink of bankruptcy and ended up costing us to bail them out? Did you really just say that? No, I didn't mean that talent...because that "talent" has already left AIG. quote: You mean he came out of retirement to take the job, then looked around the company and was completely astonished to find it was in piss-poor shape and had a government bailout? That must have quite a rude surprise for him. Are you really so ignorant as to believe that or are you just being a PITA for the hell of it? It's on record what happened November 1st that caused him to decide to leave.

rulemylife -> RE: Welfare Queen threatens to "Go Galt" (11/12/2009 7:01:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun Or is the bigotry against the wealthy really just that strong? We should start an organization to address that blatant bigotry. Maybe the National Association for the Advancement of Wealthy People.

Raiikun -> RE: Welfare Queen threatens to "Go Galt" (11/12/2009 7:07:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl His "talent" lied with MetLife, rule. seems he took that mutual company and went public with it. netting himself quite a bit of money. that is his talent. He also orchestrated several major deals, including the 11.5 billion dollar acquisition of Travelers Life & Annuity from Citygroup. He instilled a lot of financial discipline at MetLife and led a "seamless integration" of acquired businesses (according to industry analyst Andrew Edelsberg). He's known for changing MetLife into a performance based culture. Before MetLife, he oversaw the combining of Paine Webber and Kidder Peabody's operations.

Raiikun -> RE: Welfare Queen threatens to "Go Galt" (11/12/2009 7:09:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun Or is the bigotry against the wealthy really just that strong? We should start an organization to address that blatant bigotry. Maybe the National Association for the Advancement of Wealthy People. Not that they need any particular advancement. There's no need for sympathy for them...hell, they're rich. :p Kinda silly to have that kind of misplaced lynch-mob-like anger though.

Hierodule -> RE: Welfare Queen threatens to "Go Galt" (11/12/2009 7:14:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun The people who fucked AIG up are already not part of the picture. There's a lot of good talent there already who's already wrapped up many billions of dollars in loose ends left by the disaster...these are people we want at AIG to remain and fix the mess left by those who already left AIG. Well the way I see it, those people should be willing to take the salary caps. They might not be the individuals who created the mess but the individuals who did were similarly "experienced" and similarly "talented." And look where that talent and experience got them. Half a million is a living wage and then some. Once these great, talented, individuals get AIG to the point where they are paying US back with interest THEN they can give themselves a raise and a bonus. Until that happens, no one making half a million dollars a year plus 25,000 in bonuses is going to get one ounce of sympathy from me, a college graduate who makes less than 20,000 a year and doesn't forsee owning a home or paying off my 50,000 plus interest student loans before I die. Luckily for me I have a man in my life who is willing to provide for me. I can't complain because, like I said, I am very lucky. But not everyone in my position has the opportunity or the desire to be cared for like that. The US is to AIG what my Master is to me. A willing caregiver. However, if I stopped following or refused to follow My Masters rules, or stopped meeting or refused to meet his needs, he would stop meeting mine and kick me to the proverbial curb. Which is exactly what we should do when bratty CEOs refuse to be grateful for what they are given. If he doesn't like it he can leave.

Raiikun -> RE: Welfare Queen threatens to "Go Galt" (11/12/2009 7:18:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hierodule Well the way I see it, those people should be willing to take the salary caps. They might not be the individuals who created the mess but the individuals who did were similarly "experienced" and similarly "talented." And look where that talent and experience got them. Did you really just try and lump people who didn't cause the mess with people who did cause the mess, and blame that talent on it? That's a pretty poor generalization that doesn't belong here. quote: Half a million is a living wage and then some. Once these great, talented, individuals get AIG to the point where they are paying US back with interest THEN they can give themselves a raise and a bonus. Until that happens, no one making half a million dollars a year plus 25,000 in bonuses is going to get one ounce of sympathy from me, They're not asking for your sympathy. Some of them are just jumping ship to places willing and able to pay them more. Others stayed out of a sense of obligation until they got fed up and then left. Again, I have no sympathy for the people making $500k, or $5 million. It does seem ridiculous to chase away the people most capable of turning AIG around though, which has been happening. quote: ORIGINAL: Hierodule Which is exactly what we should do when bratty CEOs refuse to be grateful for what they are given. If he doesn't like it he can leave. Maybe you should tell that to the Board that begged him to stay so they didn't lose his talent. I'd be curious to see if they agree. ;)

Hierodule -> RE: Welfare Queen threatens to "Go Galt" (11/12/2009 7:22:46 AM)
I'm not lumping them together simply illustrating that talent and experience aren't everything. Fresh ideas might be whats needed now. I think it is ridiculous to say that the ONLY people who can fix this HAVE to be paid more. For real? there isn't anyone out there who can do a good job that will be willing to make half a mil? Are you serious?

Hierodule -> RE: Welfare Queen threatens to "Go Galt" (11/12/2009 7:30:50 AM)
Also talent and experience aren't mutually exclusive I m H O

Anarrus -> RE: Welfare Queen threatens to "Go Galt" (11/12/2009 7:33:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hierodule He is threatening to leave because he can't pay executives more than half a million a year. He swears he can't turn AIG around UNLESS he pays people more than that. He is upset with the government because they gave AIG a ton of cash and then have the audacity to try to dictate where that money goes. He is happy with the bail out not happy with salary caps. If he doesn't want to play under the new rules then fuck him. WE paid good money for these new rules and we deserve to see them enforced.If he doesn't like it get someone else. Someone new with new ideas who can get a staff of NEW executives. Maybe a new CEO could hire some of the fresh MBAs who can't find a job for the life of them because the financial industry was so fuckked up by his cronies. These kids will not only have new ideas they will be HAPPY to make half a million. I agree with you..fuck him! But, wasn't part of the whole credit default swap and derivitives fiasco due to fresh MBA's coming up with computer models and new ways for the sharks to shuffle papers and make money, ways that weren't even understood all that well or proven to work in financial markets.

Raiikun -> RE: Welfare Queen threatens to "Go Galt" (11/12/2009 7:42:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hierodule I'm not lumping them together simply illustrating that talent and experience aren't everything. Fresh ideas might be whats needed now. I think it is ridiculous to say that the ONLY people who can fix this HAVE to be paid more. For real? there isn't anyone out there who can do a good job that will be willing to make half a mil? Are you serious? Are you willing to pay half a million a year to someone who has no experience and hasn't proven yet wether or not he is remotely capable of doing what these execs (many of which require years of experience to get to where they're at) have to do? Edit: That said, there is actually a reasonable argument there, though I have shared my skepticism on it's feasibility. I have no issue at all with anyone disagreeing with Benmoshe, or questioning wether $500k is enough to keep the talent there to turn AIG around, etc... My issue is with the sudden outburst of hositility...the "good riddance to bad rubbish", the misplaced anger. Too many are acting on emotion and making some severely faulty generalizations (People STILL claim that the talent at AIG got us in this mess when the people responsible jumped ship and scurried away like rats ages ago) and refuse to look with logic at what might actually be happening.

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