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RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 5:40:20 AM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJack53
I have had experiences which proved to me He exists.

You're mistaken those experiences are evidence that the Flying Spaghetti Monster was touching you with his noodly appendage.

(in reply to MasterJack53)
Profile   Post #: 181
RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 5:43:54 AM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

I know NZ, please accept my apology if you thought I was including you with those that I was questioning. I am just not big on giving people an easy excuse to their lack of biblical and historical knowledge when they base their faith on it.

the.dark.


If it's a matter of faith, you believe without having hard facts. Religion is a personal matter to me. It's none of anyone's business as far as I'm concerned but mine. I went to a church where women followed those rules as well and everyone in that church seemed fairly happy.

Someone said earlier that it was a way to teach others how to live. For me this is correct and in the case of women..it's there for that exact reason as well.

The bible teaches women to be submissive and in these days as far as I'm concerned..It's deeply needed.

This next bit isn't directed at you.

I really love it when religion comes up for discussion. I watch as tolerance goes out the door for it where one would think tolerance would be given a little easier. I watch rationalism take a seat as religious bashing stands up. I watch as people argue for the sake of arguing because there aren't in their eyes enough facts to support the others beliefs.


< Message edited by Icarys -- 11/12/2009 5:51:17 AM >


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 182
RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 7:16:24 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
Oh yay, I am back!  Thank you for your patience.
It is chilly outside!

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJack53

Im quoting from my KJV Bible here: genesis 3 verse 24: "so He drove out the man; and He placed at the east of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life." Now Im not certain if its in the Bible or Dantes Infernal but in one of them it says that Cherubims are a low level angel. Not a man. right?


That's a lot later and after the fall of man.
I will use the KJV, as you seem to prefere this version.

In the beginning.... and then snip to

quote:

 Gen 1:24
And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.


I would suggest that even to someone who has not studied the bible ever and has to read this, that god made man in his image on the sixth day.

The we go on to
quote:

Gen 2:  Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 

And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 

And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. 

But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.   And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.


Within these writings, it is quite clear that God created a man after he had rested.  Therefore, he created man, at least twice.
Translations are using the word adam and 'ethHa'adam, which indicates that they are inherently different, but still both man.

the.dark.

(.seriouslythesequoteboxesSUCK.)

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 11/12/2009 7:49:19 AM >


_____________________________


RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to MasterJack53)
Profile   Post #: 183
RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 7:27:05 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
Within these writings, it is quite clear that God created a man after he had rested.  Therefore, he created man, at least twice.

Few people are at their best and brightest just after a snooze.

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 184
RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 7:33:31 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

I know NZ, please accept my apology if you thought I was including you with those that I was questioning. I am just not big on giving people an easy excuse to their lack of biblical and historical knowledge when they base their faith on it.

the.dark.


If it's a matter of faith, you believe without having hard facts. Religion is a personal matter to me. It's none of anyone's business as far as I'm concerned but mine. I went to a church where women followed those rules as well and everyone in that church seemed fairly happy.

Someone said earlier that it was a way to teach others how to live. For me this is correct and in the case of women..it's there for that exact reason as well.

The bible teaches women to be submissive and in these days as far as I'm concerned..It's deeply needed.



I don't disagree that faith is a personal thing, Master Icarys.  But I do question the authority of anyone who does not study the bible, or any other religious text, openly admits to such whether male or female.  Determining false prophacy and teachings is an important part of ones individual faith.  And if I was a christian, I would be very nervous indeed, had I to face him on the day and use the excuse 'I didn't bother to look deeper'.  Salvation maybe through christ, but I would not want to take the chance and guess that he might tollerate tardiness or laziness.

I do not deny that the bible teaches female submission.  But it also does not openly insist that women cannot be teachers, or prophets.  It teaches them to be submissive.  It teaches them to be gentle and peaceful.  But it does not teach them silence.

quote:

This next bit isn't directed at you.

I really love it when religion comes up for discussion. I watch as tolerance goes out the door for it where one would think tolerance would be given a little easier. I watch rationalism take a seat as religious bashing stands up. I watch as people argue for the sake of arguing because there aren't in their eyes enough facts to support the others beliefs.


I do appriciate your words as always.

the.dark.

_____________________________


RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 185
RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 7:34:30 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
I watch rationalism take a seat as religious bashing stands up.

Really? I've observed exactly the opposite.

Assuming your definition of "rationalism" is the same as mine, namely;

"Rationalism: "any view appealing to reason as a source of knowledge or justification""

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 186
RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 7:44:23 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
Within these writings, it is quite clear that God created a man after he had rested.  Therefore, he created man, at least twice.

Few people are at their best and brightest just after a snooze.


Or shopping.

the.dark.

_____________________________


RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 187
RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 7:45:27 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
Within these writings, it is quite clear that God created a man after he had rested.  Therefore, he created man, at least twice.

Few people are at their best and brightest just after a snooze.


Or shopping.

My sister frequently claims Bluewater is "better than God's shopping" so you could be right

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 188
RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 7:45:34 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
I do know that if you believe in the bible and the teachings of christ, then you know that god is all around.  If he is all around, that means you can see and touch him.

Ewwwwwwwww

Seriously, what a perv.


If you think of it that way - I find it quite hot.

the.dark.

_____________________________


RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 189
RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 7:49:48 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
I do know that if you believe in the bible and the teachings of christ, then you know that god is all around.  If he is all around, that means you can see and touch him.

Ewwwwwwwww

Seriously, what a perv.


If you think of it that way - I find it quite hot.

the.dark.

I think it depends if you find old geezers hot or not.

Ah ... I've just opened up a door to a *world* of trouble for you ... my apologies

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 190
RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 7:52:30 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline
I believe according to the lore and biblical reference and kabbalah. God created Adam and Lilith together. His first wife. But she was fiesty and dominant and not very well behaved, She wanted to take over and rule. So God scrapped Lilith and made Eve from Adams rib.

Isaiah 34:14f

Wildcats shall meet with hyenas,
goat-demons shall call to each other;
there too Lilith shall repose,
and find a place to rest.
There shall the owl nest
and lay and hatch and brood in its shadow

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 191
RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 7:55:12 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue
I think it depends if you find old geezers hot or not.

Ah ... I've just opened up a door to a *world* of trouble for you ... my apologies


Depends... how old are you again?????*wiggles eyebrows*

the.dark.
(.eekamIheadingforatanning.)


_____________________________


RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 192
RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 7:56:19 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline
A note added to say I dont know much about jesus as a christ. I do know he was a first century rabbi. I believe he was married to Mary Magdeline. Rabbis can marry. I also know he was a good jewish boy who lived at home til he was 30, went into his fathers business and his mother treated him like he was a God(like most jewish mamma's)!

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 193
RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 7:57:56 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue
I think it depends if you find old geezers hot or not.

Ah ... I've just opened up a door to a *world* of trouble for you ... my apologies


Depends... how old are you again?????*wiggles eyebrows*

I'm scared! I want ... well I was going to say "my mummy", but "close air support" would probably come in handier.

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 194
RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 7:58:27 AM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

I don't disagree that faith is a personal thing, Master Icarys. But I do question the authority of anyone who does not study the bible, or any other religious text, openly admits to such whether male or female. Determining false prophacy and teachings is an important part of ones individual faith. And if I was a christian, I would be very nervous indeed, had I to face him on the day and use the excuse 'I didn't bother to look deeper'. Salvation maybe through christ, but I would not want to take the chance and guess that he might tollerate tardiness or laziness.

I do not deny that the bible teaches female submission. But it also does not openly insist that women cannot be teachers, or prophets. It teaches them to be submissive. It teaches them to be gentle and peaceful. But it does not teach them silence.


I would definitely agree with you then.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 195
RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 7:59:09 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19
I believe according to the lore and biblical reference and kabbalah. God created Adam and Lilith together. His first wife. But she was fiesty and dominant and not very well behaved, She wanted to take over and rule. So God scrapped Lilith and made Eve from Adams rib.

And what lesson do we take from this, ladies?

I do like the idea of god making Eve: Chick 2.0 - new and improved!

(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 196
RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 8:01:14 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

A note added to say I dont know much about jesus as a christ. I do know he was a first century rabbi. I believe he was married to Mary Magdeline. Rabbis can marry. I also know he was a good jewish boy who lived at home til he was 30, went into his fathers business and his mother treated him like he was a God(like most jewish mamma's)!


Too funny, Lushy.

the.dark.

_____________________________


RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 197
RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 8:06:07 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue
I think it depends if you find old geezers hot or not.

Ah ... I've just opened up a door to a *world* of trouble for you ... my apologies


Depends... how old are you again?????*wiggles eyebrows*

I'm scared! I want ... well I was going to say "my mummy", but "close air support" would probably come in handier.



the.dark.
(.whoalwaysgetsherman.)


_____________________________


RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 198
RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 8:07:55 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue
I think it depends if you find old geezers hot or not.

Ah ... I've just opened up a door to a *world* of trouble for you ... my apologies


Depends... how old are you again?????*wiggles eyebrows*

I'm scared! I want ... well I was going to say "my mummy", but "close air support" would probably come in handier.



the.dark.
(.whoalwaysgetsherman.)


heh. Now if you'd had an animated traffic warden I really would have filled my boots.

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 199
RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 8:08:29 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

I don't disagree that faith is a personal thing, Master Icarys. But I do question the authority of anyone who does not study the bible, or any other religious text, openly admits to such whether male or female. Determining false prophacy and teachings is an important part of ones individual faith. And if I was a christian, I would be very nervous indeed, had I to face him on the day and use the excuse 'I didn't bother to look deeper'. Salvation maybe through christ, but I would not want to take the chance and guess that he might tollerate tardiness or laziness.

I do not deny that the bible teaches female submission. But it also does not openly insist that women cannot be teachers, or prophets. It teaches them to be submissive. It teaches them to be gentle and peaceful. But it does not teach them silence.


I would definitely agree with you then.



Then, I am honoured and blessed then, Master Icarys.
Master instructs to send his regards.

the.dark.

_____________________________


RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 200
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