Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Thoughts on President Obama's Job Summit?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Thoughts on President Obama's Job Summit? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Thoughts on President Obama's Job Summit? - 11/13/2009 6:12:24 AM   
SpinnerofTales


Posts: 1586
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Labor unions and non-profit groups will be the main focus of this summit. Obama's agenda against business groups will continue and this job summit will be a waste of time. Unions do not create jobs.


The white house cc'd you on the guest list, SFU? Sent you the agenda, did they? Or is this just more of "If I say it someone will beleive it's true"?

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Thoughts on President Obama's Job Summit? - 11/13/2009 6:17:17 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Labor unions and non-profit groups will be the main focus of this summit. Obama's agenda against business groups will continue and this job summit will be a waste of time. Unions do not create jobs.



And you worked a union job for what, 33 fuckin years? got a good retirement out of it, healthcare. Who the fuck are you kidding?



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Thoughts on President Obama's Job Summit? - 11/13/2009 6:24:28 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

That's been very throroughly disproven. The Laffer curve has no connection to reality.


When you cut people's taxes they have more money (what was their money to begin with). When people have more money they spend more money (sure, some of it is saved but saved money is spent eventually). When people spend more money the demand for products and services goes up. When the demand for products and services goes up jobs are created (existing businesses expand and new businesses are created) to meet the demand. Voila! More Jobs (and incidently, more taxpayers).

Straight forward logic and common sense which works everytime it's tried.



Forget it.  Not only is the government broke and NEEDS the tax revenue, but the last time tax cuts were used, it was by Bush and helped put us in our current, broke mess.  Politically, Jindal tried to resurrect the dead spirit of tax cuts in a reply-to-Obama speech, and is sure didn't help his career any.  The GOP idea of cutting taxes into prosperity is as silly as the Dem idea of spending into prosperity.

My idea is to break up the banks into components that simply loan money out and those that invest.  If the investing part goes down in flames, let it.  The meltdown happened because the lucrative gambling, er, investing, part went south, and the argument was that unless we bailed out the banks, the lending component would wither and die.  So we paid off the banks, and the money went to more gambling and the lending still hasn't resumed.

Alternatively, let credit unions (which still lend money) take over the lending business altogether since banks don't seem interested.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Marc2b)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Thoughts on President Obama's Job Summit? - 11/13/2009 6:27:51 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

My thoughts on the job summit? It's useless political posturing. To stimulate job growth all we need do is cut taxes.

That's been very throroughly disproven. The Laffer curve has no connection to reality.


You keep repeating this nonsense. Strawmen about the Laffer curve have no connection to reality. THE LAFFER CURVE IS IRREFUTABLE.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Thoughts on President Obama's Job Summit? - 11/13/2009 6:32:07 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

To stimulate job growth all we need do is cut taxes.


There you go.

A nice, simplistic solution to a complex problem.

So, let me ask, didn't Bush cut taxes and we still ended up in a deep recession?



(in reply to Marc2b)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Thoughts on President Obama's Job Summit? - 11/13/2009 6:32:46 AM   
SpinnerofTales


Posts: 1586
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

You keep repeating this nonsense. Strawmen about the Laffer curve have no connection to reality. THE LAFFER CURVE IS IRREFUTABLE.


Putting nonsense in caps doesn't make it less nonsense, WD....the laffer curve, for a number of reasons is by no means irrefutable. It seems you have as little idea of economic theories and their validity as you do the correct meaning of the term "Strawman" in a discussion. Nice to see you batting two for two this morning.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Thoughts on President Obama's Job Summit? - 11/13/2009 6:36:01 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

You keep repeating this nonsense. Strawmen about the Laffer curve have no connection to reality. THE LAFFER CURVE IS IRREFUTABLE.


Huh?  Are you saying that the Laffer curve must be accepted until refuted?  That's not the way it works... show me solid evidence that it works. 

George Bush's miserable record, in which employment barely grew despite the population growing in his first term, even with a RE bubble, should have proven once and for all that tax cuts do not equate magically to prosperity.

Unless you happen to have better proof than typing in all caps.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Thoughts on President Obama's Job Summit? - 11/13/2009 6:38:01 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

To stimulate job growth all we need do is cut taxes.


There you go.

A nice, simplistic solution to a complex problem.

So, let me ask, didn't Bush cut taxes and we still ended up in a deep recession?






Complete the blanks and you may learn something. I really have no hope of you doing either.

A recession which was caused by ______________________.

A recession which started ____________ after _____ years of recovery from the Clinton recession and average unemployment _________ than during the great Clinton years.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Thoughts on President Obama's Job Summit? - 11/13/2009 6:39:27 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

You keep repeating this nonsense. Strawmen about the Laffer curve have no connection to reality. THE LAFFER CURVE IS IRREFUTABLE.


Huh?  Are you saying that the Laffer curve must be accepted until refuted?  That's not the way it works... show me solid evidence that it works. 

George Bush's miserable record, in which employment barely grew despite the population growing in his first term, even with a RE bubble, should have proven once and for all that tax cuts do not equate magically to prosperity.

Unless you happen to have better proof than typing in all caps.



It is irrefutable because it is impossible to be anything else. Why don't you tell us what the Laffer curve says, and then I'll explain what it REALLY says.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Thoughts on President Obama's Job Summit? - 11/13/2009 6:45:30 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

My thoughts on the job summit? It's useless political posturing. To stimulate job growth all we need do is cut taxes.

That's been very throroughly disproven. The Laffer curve has no connection to reality.


You keep repeating this nonsense. Strawmen about the Laffer curve have no connection to reality. THE LAFFER CURVE IS IRREFUTABLE.



LOL, all you must do is talk to CEOs, don't see where you would get any business from, I wouldn't let you advise me on a fuckin penny candy buy.

There are many, many articles that debunk the laffer curve, it is eminently refutable, and has been refuted since the day that old Laffer first sketched out his theory on Dick Cheneys bar napkin.

In fact, it was even incontravertably refuted by economists in the GWB Adminstration, based on actual events. Like here:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1692027,00.html

And there are many many many more economists who have debunked the shit out of the laffer curve.

Now, it has some more than inconsequential value if (and only if) your marginal tax rate is somewhere over 50%.

So, just for our edification and to allow you to demonstrate your financial wizardry thru explication of your proof, we have already (very recently) had a visable and controlled experiment of this very phenomenon.

Couple three four months or longer ago, all you wizards recieved a check for somewhere between 3 and 600 dollars from the government, a tax rebate. This in effect and in actuality cut your tax rate. So, where is the resultant boost to the economy? You have lower taxes now (and have for some time) than you will have in the future, again where is the resultant prosperity?

Go ahead and take your time, I can wait.

Ron

edit: atrocious spelling and there is prolly some still in there

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 11/13/2009 6:55:44 AM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Thoughts on President Obama's Job Summit? - 11/13/2009 6:47:48 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Notice that not a single liberal offered a single idea to help stimulate job creation. There is a reason for that.




Yes, I also noticed that not a single conservative did either.

Is there also a reason for that?

Oh excuse me, other than one poster who offered up the usual golden shower economic theories that have worked so well since Uncle Ronnie's time.

(in reply to luckydawg)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Thoughts on President Obama's Job Summit? - 11/13/2009 6:59:23 AM   
Marc2b


Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Forget it. Not only is the government broke and NEEDS the tax revenue, but the last time tax cuts were used, it was by Bush and helped put us in our current, broke mess.


The Bush tax cuts were pitiful and only for the wealthiest. If you want to see real job creation you have to have serious tax cuts – twenty percent across the board would be my recommendation but even ten percent would yield positive results. As for the government being broke, even though tax cuts will eventually lead to greater tax revenue (by creating more tax payers), it is not enough. We must also cut government spending (except, of course, for [enter your pet cause here]).

quote:

Politically, Jindal tried to resurrect the dead spirit of tax cuts in a reply-to-Obama speech, and is sure didn't help his career any.


Jindal’s problem wasn’t so much his message as it was that he was a lousy messenger. In politics style (or lack thereof) always trumps substance. It’s sad but it’s true.

quote:

The GOP idea of cutting taxes into prosperity is as silly as the Dem idea of spending into prosperity.


I’m not advocating the notion that cutting taxes is the be all and end all on the path to prosperity. Other things like onerous regulations or even natural disasters also have their effects. I am advocating that cutting taxes is a necessary first step to stimulating job growth.

quote:

My idea is to break up the banks into components that simply loan money out and those that invest. If the investing part goes down in flames, let it. The meltdown happened because the lucrative gambling, er, investing, part went south, and the argument was that unless we bailed out the banks, the lending component would wither and die. So we paid off the banks, and the money went to more gambling and the lending still hasn't resumed.

Alternatively, let credit unions (which still lend money) take over the lending business altogether since banks don't seem interested.


I would like to see us go back to the more sensible regulations that were in effect when my parents bought their first house: They had to have thirty percent down and solid proof that they could both support themselves and make the loan payments.

The biggest reason why we are in the mess we are in today is two fold – loaning money to people who can’t pay it back (because some people feel that it is unfair that scofflaws shouldn’t be able to get loans) and no loaning money that doesn’t exist. The lending institution should not loan money it cannot afford to loose.


< Message edited by Marc2b -- 11/13/2009 7:36:57 AM >

_____________________________

Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Thoughts on President Obama's Job Summit? - 11/13/2009 7:26:51 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


Complete the blanks and you may learn something. I really have no hope of you doing either.

A recession which was caused by ______________________.

A recession which started ____________ after _____ years of recovery from the Clinton recession and average unemployment _________ than during the great Clinton years.


Yes. I love it.

The Bush recession was inherited from Clinton but the Obama recession belongs to him and had absolutely nothing to do with Bush.





< Message edited by rulemylife -- 11/13/2009 7:27:18 AM >

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Thoughts on President Obama's Job Summit? - 11/13/2009 7:35:06 AM   
Marc2b


Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Couple three four months or longer ago, all you wizards recieved a check for somewhere between 3 and 600 dollars from the government, a tax rebate. This in effect and in actuality cut your tax rate. So, where is the resultant boost to the economy? You have lower taxes now (and have for some time) than you will have in the future, again where is the resultant prosperity?


The problem with that is that it was a one time increase in spending money, not a sustained increase in personal revenue. Sure, I can take the three hundred bucks and spend a night on the town or buy some new DVDs or something but the result of my spending that three hundred bucks (along with everybody else spending their rebate) is only a temporary uptick in the demand for products and services - not a sustained one. If you want a sustained increase in demand then you need a sustained increase in people's revenues. Cutting tax rates so that people's weekly paycheck gets bigger will acomplish that, one time rebates will not.




_____________________________

Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Thoughts on President Obama's Job Summit? - 11/13/2009 7:42:26 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		you answered the simple one, not the one about the tax cuts that you currently have since bush took office and continue today, look where we are...... just doesn't cut it on face value.

again if you (and I will agree on the 10-20%) have a very high marginal tax rate, (over 50%) and can cut it substantially, you got something.

Banks who loaned money to obvious losers were just as if not moreso culpable as the obvious loosers, they had onerous and usurous terms, over appraisal, and were not FORCED into the business they went into, and laid off their misdeeds in derivatives, which you are now paying for.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Marc2b)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Thoughts on President Obama's Job Summit? - 11/13/2009 7:45:44 AM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		The union I was a member of ( CWA ) bargained our contracts but they did not provide me with a job or pay me ever. I worked for AT&T, a large evil corporation. A union contract is an agreement between the company and its represented employees. Having the head of the UAW at a job summit is not the answer for 10 % un employment.

(in reply to Marc2b)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Thoughts on President Obama's Job Summit? - 11/13/2009 7:45:51 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

It is irrefutable because it is impossible to be anything else. Why don't you tell us what the Laffer curve says, and then I'll explain what it REALLY says.


Nope.  Let's try it another way.  The THEORY behind the Laffer curve is not a fact.  As such, it needs to be proven correct.  The burden of proof is not on its opponents to disprove it, but on its proponents to prove it correct.

If I came up with some silly idea like everyone saying the Pledge of Allegiance will magically cure the economy, it would have to be proven, just like the Laffer curve.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Thoughts on President Obama's Job Summit? - 11/13/2009 8:02:53 AM   
Marc2b


Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

you answered the simple one, not the one about the tax cuts that you currently have since bush took office and continue today, look where we are...... just doesn't cut it on face value.

again if you (and I will agree on the 10-20%) have a very high marginal tax rate, (over 50%) and can cut it substantially, you got something.

Banks who loaned money to obvious losers were just as if not moreso culpable as the obvious loosers, they had onerous and usurous terms, over appraisal, and were not FORCED into the business they went into, and laid off their misdeeds in derivatives, which you are now paying for.


I already answered that im my reply to DarkSteven (post number 32). The Bush tax cuts were not across the board.

As for the banks making bad loans - as I said, we need a return to more common sense regulations. In discussions on the economy I often see people say "de-regulation caused the mess were in." The mistake they are making is that there was no de-regulation but rather a change in regulation to favor one group of people - the wealthy - over another group - the rest of us. We need to change it back.



_____________________________

Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Thoughts on President Obama's Job Summit? - 11/13/2009 8:06:38 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Ah, ya, and I sort of referenced it at that. sorry for the confusion, yes, a cut like that with reined in spending, while devastating and deflationary will eventually in the long term put us on a firm footing

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Marc2b)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Thoughts on President Obama's Job Summit? - 11/13/2009 8:07:11 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

I was glad to hear that President Obama will be holding a big job summit next month.
I think that is a wonderful way to end 2009.
I am wondering how the President plans to spur job growth without using any of the
remaining stimulus money.
Isn't that one of the reasons that we have the stimulus money?
I am eagerly awaiting coverage of the job summit.
Any thoughts from our resident "brains" on what to expect from the upcoming job summit?
Obama Plans Jobs Summit But Not Second Stimulus - Economy * US * News * Story - CNBC.com



Mia, sure, end "NAFTA!"
Take the very document with Clinton's signiture on it and pour lighter fluid on it and light it on fire.
On national television.
President Obama needs to make some *fundimental changes*. Almost all of the legislation that has gone through in the last 16 years under Clinton and Bush has favored the corporations.
Now "the consumer", (don't you love that phrase?) has their choice of cheap plastic junk from 100 differant countries only on $12 an hour jobs, not the $30-$40 an hour jobs we should have!
"Free Trade" = low wages.
As Ross Perot warned us free trade and "NAFTA" is a race to the bottom!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 11/13/2009 8:20:37 AM >

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Thoughts on President Obama's Job Summit? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.093