Free the Guantanamo Bay five! (Full Version)

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Moonhead -> Free the Guantanamo Bay five! (11/13/2009 1:56:41 PM)

Any thoughts from the Americans on this? Is finally bringing these cunts to trial yet another PR stunt by a Marxist Steppin Fetchit impersonator who shouldn't be in the White House, or an attempt to waggle his arse at the right wing?
Myself, I suspect he's painting his bum purple and donning his "Dominant Babboon" t shirt even as we speak. The whole thing is a blatant "Bush couldn't be bothered with this but I am," routine. God only knows how he's planning to square this with the fourth and fifth amendments. Presumably the trial's being undertaken on the assumption that they'll all plead guilty hoping to be martyred.



NewOCDaddy -> RE: Free the Guantanamo Bay five! (11/13/2009 2:04:59 PM)

It just completes the reversion to a pre 9/11 mentality that is virtually certain to enable future attacks.



mnottertail -> RE: Free the Guantanamo Bay five! (11/13/2009 2:16:37 PM)

Moon,

I am proud of you, you are starting getting down that vituperative american political polarization spirit patter.

But look here, you still use to longa words, people gotta stop and look em up, it diminishes the impact.

Ron



Moonhead -> RE: Free the Guantanamo Bay five! (11/13/2009 2:25:57 PM)

[:D]
Point taken.



kdsub -> RE: Free the Guantanamo Bay five! (11/13/2009 2:43:43 PM)

Nah...He just thinks they are guilty

Butch



Moonhead -> RE: Free the Guantanamo Bay five! (11/13/2009 3:06:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Nah...He just thinks they are guilty

Butch

I doubt he'd be resorting to a federal trial if he wasn't sure that whatsisface sheik mohammed was going to plead guilty. Maybe they can just a wave a confession they've waterboarded out of the lad over the last six years before the Judge and let him don a black cap...



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Free the Guantanamo Bay five! (11/13/2009 3:17:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Nah...He just thinks they are guilty

Butch

I doubt he'd be resorting to a federal trial if he wasn't sure that whatsisface sheik mohammed was going to plead guilty. Maybe they can just a wave a confession they've waterboarded out of the lad over the last six years before the Judge and let him don a black cap...


Hes already confessed.



Moonhead -> RE: Free the Guantanamo Bay five! (11/13/2009 3:19:00 PM)

Not in front of a court he hasn't.



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Free the Guantanamo Bay five! (11/13/2009 3:25:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Not in front of a court he hasn't.


He did in a military tribunal, which carries the same weight as if he did in a civilian court.



SpinnerofTales -> RE: Free the Guantanamo Bay five! (11/13/2009 3:26:30 PM)

quote:

Any thoughts from the Americans on this? Is finally bringing these cunts to trial yet another PR stunt by a Marxist Steppin Fetchit impersonator who shouldn't be in the White House, or an attempt to waggle his arse at the right wing?
Myself, I suspect he's painting his bum purple and donning his "Dominant Babboon" t shirt even as we speak. The whole thing is a blatant "Bush couldn't be bothered with this but I am," routine. God only knows how he's planning to square this with the fourth and fifth amendments. Presumably the trial's being undertaken on the assumption that they'll all plead guilty hoping to be martyred.
ORIGINAL: Moonhead


I may well be alone in this but I think that bringing these men to trial is a good and necessary thing. Treating them as any other criminals sends the message that they are not supermen, they are not political martyrs, that they are just a bunch of thugs who managed to carry out a horrible crime. That crime hurt us, but didn't change who we are, and who we are is a people who have a system of laws and justice to which these men will be brought and tried.

I personally want to see these criminals treated as what they are, no more and no less. Let them see that we have not stopped being America just because they blew up a building.



AnimusRex -> RE: Free the Guantanamo Bay five! (11/13/2009 4:04:09 PM)

Nope, Spinner, there are plenty of people in the reality-based community who believe that the US Constitution actually works.

http://www.samefacts.com/



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Free the Guantanamo Bay five! (11/13/2009 4:25:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Nope, Spinner, there are plenty of people in the reality-based community who believe that the US Constitution actually works.

http://www.samefacts.com/



Except its not respecting the Constitution as your link claims. The rights in the Constitution are reserved for citizens, not enemies. And spinner, your delusional. All this will be regarded as is more weakness.



DomKen -> RE: Free the Guantanamo Bay five! (11/13/2009 4:28:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Nope, Spinner, there are plenty of people in the reality-based community who believe that the US Constitution actually works.

http://www.samefacts.com/



Except its not respecting the Constitution as your link claims. The rights in the Constitution are reserved for citizens, not enemies.

Funny, that isn't what the actual document says. The original authors used the word citizen in many places throughout the body of the Constitution but not a single time in the Bill of Rights.



Moonhead -> RE: Free the Guantanamo Bay five! (11/13/2009 4:45:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Not in front of a court he hasn't.


He did in a military tribunal, which carries the same weight as if he did in a civilian court.

Possibly, but as they're trying him on a Federal basis, it's probably inadmissable. I'll be interested to see how they can talk their way around the fact that they've held him for six years without charging him already.

Spinner: I'd go along with that. This about all that Obama's done since January that I approve of, frankly. Didn't think they still had the death penalty in New York, though.



Moonhead -> RE: Free the Guantanamo Bay five! (11/13/2009 4:48:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Nope, Spinner, there are plenty of people in the reality-based community who believe that the US Constitution actually works.

http://www.samefacts.com/



Except its not respecting the Constitution as your link claims. The rights in the Constitution are reserved for citizens, not enemies.

Funny, that isn't what the actual document says. The original authors used the word citizen in many places throughout the body of the Constitution but not a single time in the Bill of Rights.

If he's not a citizen, he isn't entitled to a Federal trial in the first place, is he? besides, despite all of this "war on terror" bullshit, he isn't an enemy combatant either. No uniform, no nationality in a nation at war with your country, just an allegation that he was involved in the business in 2001. If he was a member of a foreign army, the UN would have gone ballistic over him being held in breach of the Geneva convention for six years.



mnottertail -> RE: Free the Guantanamo Bay five! (11/13/2009 4:50:28 PM)

Uuntil such a time as he is hauled before a constitutional court in the united states to determine in open court (with realistic security concerns) that he is an enemy combatant, not a military tribunal, which is valid AFTER he is judged under our constitution an enemy combatant, and you can try him by military tribunal under ucmj if he is an enemy combatant we owe him nothing, and you can make him eat pork for all I care.


Till then, you can only hold him as long as the war lasts.......OH!!!!!! MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!!!



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Free the Guantanamo Bay five! (11/13/2009 4:54:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Nope, Spinner, there are plenty of people in the reality-based community who believe that the US Constitution actually works.

http://www.samefacts.com/



Except its not respecting the Constitution as your link claims. The rights in the Constitution are reserved for citizens, not enemies.

Funny, that isn't what the actual document says. The original authors used the word citizen in many places throughout the body of the Constitution but not a single time in the Bill of Rights.



I see. So youre maintaining that amendments that are silent with respect to an issue (who it applies to) expands those rights to parties not included in the the original document.

The mind boggles.



SpinnerofTales -> RE: Free the Guantanamo Bay five! (11/13/2009 4:56:10 PM)

quote:

Except its not respecting the Constitution as your link claims. The rights in the Constitution are reserved for citizens, not enemies. And spinner, your delusional. All this will be regarded as is more weakness.
ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy



No, willbeur....weakness was eviscerating our constitution in order to try to find terrorists hiding under the bed. Weakness was being provoked into the very wars that Bin Laden wanted us to go into to prove we were "doing something". Weakness was shutting down the Statue of Liberty in one of the most damning symbolic acts of this whole nightmare. Weakness was letting Bin Laden achieve every single goal he hoped for when he orchestrated the attacks.

Americans acting like Americans is not weakness. And if that makes me delusional, then I will remain delusional because I love this country.



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Free the Guantanamo Bay five! (11/13/2009 4:58:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

Except its not respecting the Constitution as your link claims. The rights in the Constitution are reserved for citizens, not enemies. And spinner, your delusional. All this will be regarded as is more weakness.
ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy



No, willbeur....weakness was eviscerating our constitution in order to try to find terrorists hiding under the bed. Weakness was being provoked into the very wars that Bin Laden wanted us to go into to prove we were "doing something". Weakness was shutting down the Statue of Liberty in one of the most damning symbolic acts of this whole nightmare. Weakness was letting Bin Laden achieve every single goal he hoped for when he orchestrated the attacks.

Americans acting like Americans is not weakness. And if that makes me delusional, then I will remain delusional because I love this country.



And your misguided beliefs in what acting like an American means is the shortest path to their not being an America as you know it.



SpinnerofTales -> RE: Free the Guantanamo Bay five! (11/13/2009 5:18:40 PM)

quote:

And your misguided beliefs in what acting like an American means is the shortest path to their not being an America as you know it.
ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy



What misguided beliefs are those, willbeur? That a people who love freedom don't give it away to the government so that we can feel safer somehow, despite the complete lack of effectiveness of the act? How about the belief that a nation of laws doesn't throw out it's laws out the window because the bad guys want us to? Maybe you mean the belief that the American system of justice is capable of handling this in a manner that will make us proud to be Americans: Finding the wrongdoers, giving them a fair and just trial and, if they are guilty of what we charge them with, meting out a fair and just punishment?
What am I missing?



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