Are 'Personal Carbon Allowances' coming?

Are 'Personal Carbon Allowances' coming? (Full Version)

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Sanity -> Are 'Personal Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/15/2009 7:12:27 AM)
For at least some of us, the answer is probably. George Orwell Was A Prophet! News Story: quote: Everyone in Britain could be given a personal 'carbon allowance' Everyone in Britain should have an annual carbon ration and be penalised if they use too much fuel, the head of the Environment Agency will say. Lord Smith of Finsbury believes that implementing individual carbon allowances for every person will be the most effective way of meeting the targets for cutting greenhouse gas emissions. It would involve people being issued with a unique number which they would hand over when purchasing products that contribute to their carbon footprint, such as fuel, airline tickets and electricity. Like with a bank account, a statement would be sent out each month to help people keep track of what they are using. If their "carbon account" hits zero, they would have to pay to get more credits. Those who are frugal with their carbon usage will be able to sell their unused credits and make a profit. Lord Smith will call for the scheme to be part of a "Green New Deal" to be introduced within 20 years when he addresses the agency's annual conference on Monday. Full article here [image]http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01522/petrol_1522476c.jpg[/image]

MarsBonfire -> RE: Are 'Personal 'Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/15/2009 7:18:22 AM)
Cool. So we can turn in those assholes in H2's who think they own the fucking road....?

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Are 'Personal 'Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/15/2009 7:22:04 AM)
Knowing the government it is just another attempt to issue us all with ID cards, my carbon footprint is tiny people can sell me some of their carbon if they like.[:D]

DomImus -> RE: Are 'Personal 'Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/15/2009 7:31:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3 Knowing the government it is just another attempt to issue us all with ID cards, my carbon footprint is tiny people can sell me some of their carbon if they like.[:D] Yep. The current administration is much more about control than reform. Does this personal carbon allowance mean the end to my days at the Mexican restaurant?

rulemylife -> RE: Are 'Personal 'Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/15/2009 8:06:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomImus Yep. The current administration is much more about control than reform. Does this personal carbon allowance mean the end to my days at the Mexican restaurant? I don't know. Did you recently move to Britain? Because your profile says you live in Georgia.

xBullx -> RE: Are 'Personal 'Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/15/2009 9:01:01 AM)
Impressive as you stand next to your large vehicle. That or you're really short. In even event, I'm rather certain that the likes of you will be taxed quite heavily on your excess flatulence. quote: ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire Cool. So we can turn in those assholes in H2's who think they own the fucking road....?

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Are 'Personal 'Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/15/2009 9:08:43 AM)
I'll tell you something for sure about those SUV's and similar, it's far easier to nip under one and steal the catalytic converter to sell on the platinum. They have such high clearance from the ground so people easily fit under, unlike my car which I always park near a dog turd just in case.[:D]

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Are 'Personal 'Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/15/2009 9:29:32 AM)
Thinking about it couldn't we just put extra tax on polluting activities and cut out all the needless administration fees of this system? e.g. Road tax, aviation tax, fuel tax, energy tax etc. Although in the future they won't be able to tax us much for energy because this will mostly come from nuclear fission, or wind turbines and is co2less.

pahunkboy -> RE: Are 'Personal 'Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/15/2009 9:32:46 AM)
if no one now has any money.... and trade is down- a good number not working- cheap stuff from China is down- then what IS there left to tax? The age of gluttony is over. Like it or not. So why pay tax on less of everything?

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Are 'Personal 'Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/15/2009 9:37:26 AM)
I wish you'd told me earlier we were living in the age of gluttony I would have bought more. Tax exists because nobody wants to do the right and honourable thing, i.e. support local government amenities and cut co2. If left to individuals to decide they'd all decide something needed to be done, some of which would embrace that but the vast majority would be concerned with what they see as more day to day needs.

pahunkboy -> RE: Are 'Personal 'Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/15/2009 9:50:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3 I wish you'd told me earlier we were living in the age of gluttony I would have bought more. Tax exists because nobody wants to do the right and honourable thing, i.e. support local government amenities and cut co2. If left to individuals to decide they'd all decide something needed to be done, some of which would embrace that but the vast majority would be concerned with what they see as more day to day needs. Do you have a junk room? I do and it never goes away. That is interesting consider I live online mostly and not an action life. It is not going to be pretty. But this "recession" is a change of lifestyle for most. If people were not gluttons maybe stuff would be made to last. We were born in a special place in time. But we did take the materials for granted. We are not going back to consumption any time soon. Maybe not even with in my lifetime. In the USA we CONSUME. I mean in some ways it is downright gluttonous. Will it really be so bad to have less stuff? No. India and China have oodles of people and they want stuff too now. Maybe a measure of a man will be less about toys now and more about the essence of life.

pahunkboy -> RE: Are 'Personal 'Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/15/2009 10:02:00 AM)
Ya know- in terms of a personal carbon allowance. On a portion of items I would use less then the typical household. The reason I say this is my phone, gas, electric - and fuel- mortgage, ins, car- are ALL cheaper then the average for this zip code. I am a cheap date!!! (jumps up and down) However- food- rxs- party, and my hobbies- I would use more the typical. So an allowance system will not effect me as it will most. Tho it still would cost more for me. I really should get that bed moved into the other room. Doing so means I can go a few degrees lower in the heat.

DarkSteven -> RE: Are 'Personal 'Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/15/2009 10:10:12 AM)
This is sure to cause all kinds of issues. 1. This is an implementation of a two step program in one step. Step one is determining what the carbon footprint is of each purchase. Step two is clamping down. I think that Step one is a great idea - communicate to people what their choices mean environmentally, and let them see the consequences of their acts. I have REAL heartburn with Step two. 2. "Fuel, airline tickets, and electricity" are environmentally damaging? That underestimates our true impact. Agriculture is a huge user of the environment, especially meat producers. Anything that requires shipping or trucking does as well. Electronics requires a lot of energy as well as clean rooms. Go ahead and make EVERYONE report, not just the easy targets.

Sanity -> RE: Are 'Personal 'Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/15/2009 10:13:15 AM)
Total control, of every aspect of every human life may be achieved through this new method of taxing our very existence. What we eat, where we live, what we buy. Everything. quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven This is sure to cause all kinds of issues. 1. This is an implementation of a two step program in one step. Step one is determining what the carbon footprint is of each purchase. Step two is clamping down. I think that Step one is a great idea - communicate to people what their choices mean environmentally, and let them see the consequences of their acts. I have REAL heartburn with Step two. 2. "Fuel, airline tickets, and electricity" are environmentally damaging? That underestimates our true impact. Agriculture is a huge user of the environment, especially meat producers. Anything that requires shipping or trucking does as well. Electronics requires a lot of energy as well as clean rooms. Go ahead and make EVERYONE report, not just the easy targets.

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Are 'Personal 'Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/15/2009 10:26:28 AM)
All things start off with good intentions I suppose but mission creep factors into it and before you know it items are no longer being priced by how much they affect the environment but instead by how popular they are and how much a government can make out of them. I have this experience from the congestion charging, i.e. TFL are so dependent on it now to provide funding to public transport that the price isn't based on environmental deterrence but instead how much buses cost to replace etc. Same with VAT; there are a whole host of items that the ethos behind the origins of VAT don’t fit with what is now subject to VAT.

Anarrus -> RE: Are 'Personal 'Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/15/2009 11:17:13 AM)
~fr~ Hell, all the good capitalists here and everywhere should rejoice. Think about it, "carbon brokering" may become the next big thing to make a nice fat exploitive profit from.

DomImus -> RE: Are 'Personal 'Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/15/2009 11:44:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: DomImus Yep. The current administration is much more about control than reform. Does this personal carbon allowance mean the end to my days at the Mexican restaurant? I don't know. Did you recently move to Britain? Because your profile says you live in Georgia. I fixed it for you. You're welcome.

Moonhead -> RE: Are 'Personal 'Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/15/2009 12:05:26 PM)
Couple of points that the Americans reading this thread might not be aware of: 1) The source cited is not a highly reputed newspaper. It's basically a less classy version of the Mail, which is (in turn) The Sun for people who don't want tits on page 3. They have a long and ignoble history of manufacturing scare stories that will horrify their (deeply conservative and Pooterish) readership. I'm not sure of an American analogy, but imagine a sort of hard right New York Times aimed at people who think Rush Limbaugh is an honest Jeremiah crying sense in the wilderness. 2)At no point does the article suggests that this is something that's ever going to be done. All that is said is that somebody for whom no identification is offered thinks it would be a good idea. Given that, the reaction to the piece above would be hilarious if it wasn't so depressing,

Hierodule -> RE: Are 'Personal Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/15/2009 12:15:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity If their "carbon account" hits zero, they would have to pay to get more credits. Those who are frugal with their carbon usage will be able to sell their unused credits and make a profit. At first I thought, "what a great way to screw the poor while pretending to help the environment!" Then it hit me, I don't even own a car! I bike everywhere. I could sell the shit out of some carbon credits. Who's the hippie now! * does a little prospector dance *

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Are 'Personal Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/15/2009 12:20:56 PM)
My carbon storage space is better than that of Hierodule corp. so buy space from me and as an introductory offer I’m also giving a 5% discount on my usual price per g! Buy NOW NOW NOW. Subject to availability, by buying this product you are aware that the '%' sign is metaphorical and therefore has no set meaning.

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