RE: Are 'Personal 'Carbon Allowances' coming? (Full Version)

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ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Are 'Personal 'Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/15/2009 12:37:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Total control, of every aspect of every human life may be achieved through this new method of taxing our very existence. What we eat, where we live, what we buy.

Everything.


That's it. Exactly. We thought we could keep it a secret, but we misunderestimated what we were up against in you. Your ration cards will arrive in the mail - delivered by a uniformed government employee - next week, comrade.




popeye1250 -> RE: Are 'Personal 'Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/15/2009 3:00:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Couple of points that the Americans reading this thread might not be aware of:

1) The source cited is not a highly reputed newspaper. It's basically a less classy version of the Mail, which is (in turn) The Sun for people who don't want tits on page 3. They have a long and ignoble history of manufacturing scare stories that will horrify their (deeply conservative and Pooterish) readership. I'm not sure of an American analogy, but imagine a sort of hard right New York Times aimed at people who think Rush Limbaugh is an honest Jeremiah crying sense in the wilderness.

2)At no point does the article suggests that this is something that's ever going to be done. All that is said is that somebody for whom no identification is offered thinks it would be a good idea. Given that, the reaction to the piece above would be hilarious if it wasn't so depressing,



Well, they might in the U.K. because the people there are sheepish as regards "govt" and they're not "Citizens" they're "subjects" subject to whatever their govt. wishes to shove up their arses. Sure they'll bitch but in the end they tow the line to the govt.
In the U.S. no because we're Citizens, we *don't like* "govt" and we vote them out regularly and egg their houses.
Oh, and we own guns too.




Hierodule -> RE: Are 'Personal Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/15/2009 3:11:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

My carbon storage space is better than that of Hierodule corp. so buy space from me and as an introductory offer I’m also giving a 5% discount on my usual price per g! Buy NOW NOW NOW.

Subject to availability, by buying this product you are aware that the '%' sign is metaphorical and therefore has no set meaning.



Here at Hierodule Corp our motto is service with a smile! Every carbon credit purchased will be personally signed, perfumed, and kissed wearing the lipstick color of your choice.

actual offer may vary void where prohibited by law





philosophy -> RE: Are 'Personal 'Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/15/2009 3:43:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


Well, they might in the U.K. because the people there are sheepish as regards "govt" and they're not "Citizens" they're "subjects" subject to whatever their govt. wishes to shove up their arses.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_Tax_Riots

.......hmmm, might want to re-educate yourself a little bit there Popeye. The link is a good starting point.

Oh, and isn't that Patriot Act starting to itch a little, in the old poop-chute?




slaveluci -> RE: Are 'Personal Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/15/2009 8:07:58 PM)

Are 'Personal Carbon Allowances' coming? No. No, they're not. At least not in our lifetime. I just don't see it happening. It's a nice bit of dramatic paranoia but I don't see it as a reality. People aren't going to allow it, imho..............luci




blacksword404 -> RE: Are 'Personal Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/15/2009 8:36:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

Are 'Personal Carbon Allowances' coming? No. No, they're not. At least not in our lifetime. I just don't see it happening. It's a nice bit of dramatic paranoia but I don't see it as a reality. People aren't going to allow it, imho..............luci


Maybe not under normal circumstances. But how do you think we got the patriot act. They took advantage of the situation to ram the agenda through.




Brain -> RE: Are 'Personal Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/15/2009 8:42:24 PM)

Whatever it takes to stop destroying and polluting this planet is okay with me!




gift4mistress -> RE: Are 'Personal Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/15/2009 8:53:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Whatever it takes to stop destroying and polluting this planet is okay with me!


What gives you the right to exist then? All you do is eat, shit, consume, and sleep; technically, you're a big polluter just like me and 6.5 billion other people. So, if you really truly cared about the environment perhaps you could move to the moon. [:D]




rulemylife -> RE: Are 'Personal Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/15/2009 9:09:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gift4mistress


What gives you the right to exist then? All you do is eat, shit, consume, and sleep; technically, you're a big polluter just like me and 6.5 billion other people.



Well that's a cheery outlook on life.




LadyEllen -> RE: Are 'Personal Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/16/2009 2:32:27 PM)

Said Lord Smith of Finsbury happens to have been Chris Smith MP, government minister under Blair and the first to declare openly he is gay;

from Wikipedia
On 30 January 2005 Chris Smith revealed to the Sunday Times that he had HIV and was first diagnosed in 1987.[2] He stated that he had decided to go public following Nelson Mandela's announcement of his son's death from AIDS.[1] Private Eye, however, maintained that the genuine reason for Smith's decision to go public was taken in light of the fact that The Mail on Sunday had contacted him and told him it was preparing a story about his condition.[citation needed]


So we have the Mail releasing just the sort of story to have its low browed knuckle dragging readership (ex Sun readers) frothing in the mouth, and it just happens to also involve Chris Smith - a gay man in the establishment who dared to out himself ("Mail reader no like gays - smash, grrrrr! ") before the Mail's Sunday edition could do so, as being HIV positive, in such a way as to associate the two ideas for its intellectually challenged subscribers. "Mail reader no like eco friendly gays - Mail reader smash, grrrrr!"
 
E




Aneirin -> RE: Are 'Personal Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/16/2009 3:00:27 PM)

Mind, if such a thing did come into existence, think of the possibilities; All those lords, so called people of title and other hangers on from a past age, would be penalised just for existing. They wouldn't love their ancestral piles in the country so much, or their V8 Range Rovers, all those scrotes, the peers of the realm, would soon feel the pinch. I feel it would affect the wealthy more than it will affect the poor, they might even end up being worse off, and even become the nouveau poor, hmmm, interesting.

Basically, you use it, you pay for it, the more you use it, the more you pay for it, Lords that spout such ideas in public better beware, it could very well hurt them more than it does us.

But regards aviation, the use of the gas turbine engine, the eflux from such things is very polluting, but I understand so far, there is no tax on aviation fuel, be that avgas or avtur, if there came to be so, air transport for the great majority of us will become exhorbitant, and beyond the use of many, maybe why it is not taxed, for that very same reason. 




LadyEllen -> RE: Are 'Personal Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/16/2009 3:05:19 PM)

Oh Aneirin! So naive!

They will simply increase their charges to us for their existence, dear boy; leaving us less able to pollute and them maintained in their lifestyle

E




Aneirin -> RE: Are 'Personal Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/16/2009 4:12:04 PM)

The Secret People

Smile at us, pay us, pass us; but do not quite forget,
For we are the people of England, that never has spoken yet.
There is many a fat farmer that drinks less cheerfully,
There is many a free French peasant who is richer and sadder than we.
There are no folk in the whole world so helpless or so wise.
There is hunger in our bellies, there is laughter in our eyes;
You laugh at us and love us, both mugs and eyes are wet:
Only you do not know us. For we have not spoken yet.

The fine French kings came over in a flutter of flags and dames.
We liked their smiles and battles, but we never could say their names.
The blood ran red to Bosworth and the high French lords went down;
There was naught but a naked people under a naked crown.
And the eyes of the King's Servants turned terribly every way,
And the gold of the King's Servants rose higher every day.
They burnt the homes of the shaven men, that had been quaint and kind,
Till there was no bed in a monk's house, nor food that man could find.
The inns of God where no man paid, that were the wall of the weak,
The King's Servants ate them all. And still we did not speak.

And the face of the King's Servants grew greater than the King:
He tricked them, and they trapped him, and stood round him in a ring.
The new grave lords closed round him, that had eaten the abbey's fruits,
And the men of the new religion, with their Bibles in their boots,
We saw their shoulders moving, to menace or discuss,
And some were pure and some were vile; but none took heed of us.
We saw the King as they killed him, and his face was proud and pale;
And a few men talked of freedom, while England talked of ale.

A war that we understood not came over the world and woke
Americans, Frenchmen, Irish; but we knew not the things they spoke.
They talked about rights and nature and peace and the people's reign:
And the squires, our masters, bade us fight; and never scorned us again.
Weak if we be for ever, could none condemn us then;
Men called us serfs and drudges; men knew that we were men.
In foam and flame at Trafalgar, on Albuera plains,
We did and died like lions, to keep ourselves in chains,
We lay in living ruins; firing and fearing not
The strange fierce face of the Frenchman who knew for what he fought,
And the man who seemed to be more than man we strained against and broke;
And we broke our own rights with him. And still we never spoke.

Our path of glory ended; we never heard guns again.
But the squire seemed struck in the saddle; he was foolish, as if in pain.
He leaned on a staggering lawyer, he clutched a cringing Jew,
He was stricken; it may be, after all, he was stricken at Waterloo.
Or perhaps the shades of the shaven men, whose spoil is in his house,
Come back in shining shapes at last to spoil his last carouse:
We only know the last sad squires ride slowly towards the sea,
And a new people takes the land: and still it is not we.

They have given us into the hands of the new unhappy lords,
Lords without anger and honour, who dare not carry their swords.
They fight by shuffling papers; they have bright dead alien eyes;
They look at our labour and laughter as a tired man looks at flies.
And the load of their loveless pity is worse than the ancient wrongs,
Their doors are shut in the evenings; and they know no songs.

We hear men speaking for us of new laws strong and sweet,
Yet is there no man speaketh as we speak in the street.
It may be we shall rise the last as Frenchmen rose the first,
Our wrath come after Russia's wrath and our wrath be the worst.
It may be we are meant to mark with our riot and our rest
God's scorn for all men governing. It may be beer is best.
But we are the people of England; and we have not spoken yet.
Smile at us, pay us, pass us. But do not quite forget.

G.K. CHESTERTON




xssve -> RE: Are 'Personal 'Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/17/2009 10:04:48 AM)

Trust me, they're already on it - just google "cap and trade".

The energy brokering lobby is already badly distorting energy policy.




Rhodes85 -> RE: Are 'Personal Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/17/2009 10:06:51 PM)

'Agriculture is a huge user of the environment, especially meat producers.  Anything that requires shipping or trucking does as well.  Electronics requires a lot of energy as well as clean rooms.  Go ahead and make EVERYONE report, not just the easy targets. '

Exactly Steven. This is the main reason why it wouldn't work. It would be impossible to regulate properly, impossible to enforce, grossly unconstitutional in the US and most other countries and would not make any difference unless most other countries adopted it as well.




Fellow -> RE: Are 'Personal Carbon Allowances' coming? (11/17/2009 11:59:52 PM)

We should tax farting somehow; it releases the worst set of greenhouse gases possible.




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