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RE: Do you consider yourself a feminist? - 11/22/2009 8:50:34 PM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Peregrinus1716

i think that as a gentleman it is my job to stick to doing those things as openning the door for ladies, pulling out their chairs ect.. it is the set of manners that seems to be missing all to often in my generation and unfortunately i think a sign of cultural decay. it is the same set of manners that my father and his father instilled in our family and neither can be accused of being soft.

In my opinion, that is a marvelous quality you have! Kudos to the upstanding men in your family!

- LA

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RE: Do you consider yourself a feminist? - 11/23/2009 2:47:03 AM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

Hey Peon,

I know we've had this debate before and I really don't want to get into it again because I know I'm not going to convince you, it's just that I've always found that feminism is less about women being able to do anything they want, and more about tearing down patriarchal values.

There are huge problems with the idea of liberty, just as there are with the idea of equality. But 'tearing down patriarchal values' is pretty OK as characterisation of 'the aim of feminism' by me, too. I don't know what it is that you think I'm so resistant to being convinced about regarding that.

quote:

I think we can both agree that men and women having equal legal rights is a good thing. The only thing we're getting hung up on is what to call it. To me it seems that since there are so many different goals of feminism, it's best to simply call it what it is - a person who believes in equal legal rights is a person who believes in equal legal rights. No need to add an -ism to it...especially an -ism that encompasses so many different goals that many people disagree with, even if they support equal legal rights.

My mother once said, "I hate all these 'isms'". "Ah", I said, being the smartarse that I am, "You're a nihilist, then?" And - for instance - she's a monarchist (I'm not), so she's into 'monarchism', too. In fact, she's into 'isms' of all kinds. X likes to think that while everyone else buys into 'isms' while X, himself, just has 'views on things'.

If you consider that you're an antifeminist, you're into an 'ism' yourself, of course. You'd have to know what feminism is, or is not, to be against it.

quote:

It just kinda grates on me that people say "if you believe in this then you are an -ist" because a lot of people can believe in concepts without wanting to identify with an -ism or movement, especially if that movement has done things that the person vehemently disagrees with. And I wonder why people are so quick to want to identify other people as feminists even if that person says "No I'm not a feminist" - I mean, I believe in equal legal rights myself. I also believe in gender roles. Am I still a feminist or does one cancel the other out?

Yes . . .

This one we have done almost to death . . .

For me, it's not about why people are so quick to label others as feminists - it's about why so many people have such an antipathy towards the words 'feminist' and 'feminism'. I addressed that point in my post 36, above, in reply to Lucienne. I'd still like to know what you think about the big body of literature that goes into this. You don't, presumably, consider yourself to be part of the 'backlash' (Susan Faludi) that's engaged in fighting a version of 'feminism' that's largely existed only in the minds of the media. But, I guess, if you can't relate it to yourself, there's no point in my pursuing you on it.

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RE: Do you consider yourself a feminist? - 11/23/2009 5:01:40 AM

petmonkey

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<----Feminist ally.

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RE: Do you consider yourself a feminist? - 11/25/2009 12:43:26 AM

Loki45

Posts: 2100
Joined: 5/13/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Peregrinus1716

i think that as a gentleman it is my job to stick to doing those things as openning the door for ladies, pulling out their chairs ect.. it is the set of manners that seems to be missing all to often in my generation and unfortunately i think a sign of cultural decay. it is the same set of manners that my father and his father instilled in our family and neither can be accused of being soft.

The problem with this mindset is that, these days, every woman believes she's a lady. (And the really militant feminists get pissed when you suggest otherwise.)

The truth, however, is that just as every man is not a "gentleman," not every woman is a lady. There are lots of various rules of behavior and manners that one must follow in order to qualify.

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RE: Do you consider yourself a feminist? - 11/25/2009 5:41:21 AM

SaharahEve

Posts: 231
Joined: 6/25/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Peregrinus1716

i think that as a gentleman it is my job to stick to doing those things as openning the door for ladies, pulling out their chairs ect.. it is the set of manners that seems to be missing all to often in my generation and unfortunately i think a sign of cultural decay. it is the same set of manners that my father and his father instilled in our family and neither can be accused of being soft.

To hold the door even for the crude and ungracious is the mark of an honorable male.

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