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RE: China called.... - 11/18/2009 9:32:42 PM   
luckydawg


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Just Republicans, huh? Well, they say ignorance is bliss....

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RE: China called.... - 11/18/2009 9:41:46 PM   
MzMia


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Just Republicans, huh? Well, they say ignorance is bliss....


No, it was not "just Republicans", BUT President Ronald Reagan and his administration/friends/croonies, CERTAINLY pushed this global economy and free trade, now didn't they?
 
Do you really want to get this party started?
President Reagan extols benefit of free trade - Ronald Reagan | Business America | Find Articles at BNET

Ronald Reagan: Radio Address to the Nation on International Free Trade

< Message edited by MzMia -- 11/18/2009 9:45:49 PM >


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RE: China called.... - 11/18/2009 9:45:38 PM   
luckydawg


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Yes mz mia, lets play.

You and whoever it was are engaging in destructive, ignorant partisanship.

I suppose you think Republicans controlled the congress durring the Reagan administration, and that all advocates of Free trade are Republican, as well as bussiness owners.....

< Message edited by luckydawg -- 11/18/2009 9:48:05 PM >


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RE: China called.... - 11/18/2009 9:51:12 PM   
MzMia


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Well I can't play long tonight, but I will be back.
I have a thousand articles on Ronnie Reagan and his tireless devotion to "free trade", and all the great things that he was behind to help "outsource" our country to hell.
 
I need to go to bed soon, but this article sum's up nicely many of my views on "Ronald Reagan".

An Average American Patriot: The truth about the Ronald Reagan who destroyed America and main Street and a Ronald Reagan (Jr....
 
I will certainly check back tomorrow, to see if you can help change my mind, and views that I have had for over 20 years.
Peace

< Message edited by MzMia -- 11/18/2009 9:56:35 PM >


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To Each His/Her Own
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RE: China called.... - 11/18/2009 9:51:36 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Why dont you look up the definitin of facism and tell me how it does not apply to China. I am assuming that in a political chat we don't have to waste time defing such basic terms.

and if you are that uneducated, I am not going to waste my time



I'm pretty sure we do have to waste that time because you are pulling things out of your ass.

Now I can prove this wrong in a heartbeat, but since you made the claim the burden is on you to support it.

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RE: China called.... - 11/18/2009 9:53:59 PM   
luckydawg


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If you are unwilling to take my challenge RML it just shows your character.....

I already did the definition thing with DC, and he had no response.

So prove it wrong....

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RE: China called.... - 11/18/2009 9:56:27 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Absolutly DC, are you not aware that China is run as an absolute dictatorship, by Han, over dozens of different ethnic and language groups. If you don't know that, you are falling for thier propoganda. Most citizens of China are not ethnic Chinese and they are ruled by force.

Do you think that President Hu was elected by the people?

You left out the merger of Corparation and state, which also is the reality of modern China.

How is that not facist?


Proof.

Not half-baked theories would help

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RE: China called.... - 11/18/2009 9:57:26 PM   
luckydawg


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MZ MIA no doubt Reagan was a free trader
so were the dems running the house his entire term, and the dems running the senate for most of his term
and Clinton,
and Obama


Am I really wasting time with someone who thinks the number of websites she can pull up is relevant in any way??? I need better hobbies

are you not familliar with the massive socioeconomic changes in China over the past 30 years? they simply are not "Red" anymore. They have evolved into a facist state, a merger of Corparation and State. Along with a ethinic dictatorship that rules by force

< Message edited by luckydawg -- 11/18/2009 9:59:50 PM >


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RE: China called.... - 11/18/2009 10:02:04 PM   
luckydawg


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Proof of what RML?

that China is run by Han? htat there are dozens of subjected ethnic groups, like Tibetians and Xuigurs?
that was not elected by the people, but by the party?

Your trolling is really kind of sad.



< Message edited by luckydawg -- 11/18/2009 10:15:35 PM >


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RE: China called.... - 11/18/2009 10:03:42 PM   
MzMia


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

MZ MIA no doubt Reagan was a free trader
so were the dems running the house his entire term, and the dems running the senate for most of his term
and Clinton,
and Obama


Am I really wasting time with someone who thinks the number of websites she can pull up is relevant in any way??? I need better hobbies

Of course you are wasting your time, you will have trouble finding websites that REFUTE what I am saying.
LOL
I was alive and I remember what President Reagan stood for, promoted, advocated, pushed and did.

If you think you can rewrite history go ahead.
Ronald Reagan was not the only person on the ship, but he was the PRESIDENT of our COUNTRY, and he promoted and pushed this agenda like his life depended on it.
Yes, I will continue and always BLAME President Reagan for a lot of the crap that is going on, now.

That makes good old Ronnie, the poster child.
Take care, and go enjoy your hobbies!



are you not familliar with the massive socioeconomic changes in China over the past 30 years? they simply are not "Red" anymore. They have evolved into a facist state, a merger of Corparation and State. Along with a ethinic dictatorship that rules by force


< Message edited by MzMia -- 11/18/2009 10:07:38 PM >


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Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

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RE: China called.... - 11/18/2009 10:04:45 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

If you are unwilling to take my challenge RML it just shows your character.....

I already did the definition thing with DC, and he had no response.

So prove it wrong....


Why should I have to prove something you said wrong when you offered no proof of it in the first place?

You offered DC nothing but your opinions.

When you have some facts come back and we'll talk.

When I post something here, especially something controversial, I back it with sources and I expect the same from anyone who wants to argue a controversial point.

Don't expect me to compensate for your laziness.

If you can't back your argument then we can assume it is the bullshit that it frankly is.

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RE: China called.... - 11/18/2009 10:05:48 PM   
luckydawg


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well that speaks for it self


Blogs......

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RE: China called.... - 11/18/2009 10:08:48 PM   
MzMia


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

well that speaks for it self


Blogs......



Lies, and then damn lies, right matey?
Go enjoy your hobbies!
Night Night


_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: China called.... - 11/18/2009 10:13:18 PM   
luckydawg


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RMl, why are you afraid to tell me specifically what you want proof of?

Or afraid to point out something specific I said that isn't true?

I can do this all day, because I am not arguing with you, but trying to show something to the silent readers.

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RE: China called.... - 11/18/2009 10:19:44 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

RMl, why are you afraid to tell me specifically what you want proof of?

Or afraid to point out something specific I said that isn't true?

I can do this all day, because I am not arguing with you, but trying to show something to the silent readers.


What are talking about?

I very specifically did ask you to explain and offer proof that China  is no longer communist but now a fascist country.

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RE: China called.... - 11/18/2009 11:17:21 PM   
luckydawg


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Oh your just trolling cause you could not back up your assertion in the media thread.....And everyone following along can see it.


I put up 3 facts, the rule of one ethnic group, the unity of Corparation and state, and the dictatorship. I could get more if I felt like it.

You for some reason are afraid to adress them

How pathetic. How left wing.....

< Message edited by luckydawg -- 11/18/2009 11:21:09 PM >


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RE: China called.... - 11/19/2009 1:57:54 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Oh your just trolling cause you could not back up your assertion in the media thread.....And everyone following along can see it.


I put up 3 facts, the rule of one ethnic group, the unity of Corparation and state, and the dictatorship. I could get more if I felt like it.

You for some reason are afraid to adress them

How pathetic. How left wing.....


No, you put up your opinions, lacking any documentation to support them.

As I said before, come back and post some facts, then we'll talk.



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RE: China called.... - 11/19/2009 7:05:32 AM   
DCWoody


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Give me a chance before saying I have no response, I sleep sometimes you know. Other times I just don't visit this site.
On an unrelated note...red=communist. The reason it's not red china any more is because....well, it isn't, not for decades.

I can't help but disagree with ya Dawg, you made three points....the unity of corporation and state isn't something I've thought of as facist, but like I suggested....the definition isn't exactly hard and fast....mostly because certain people throw it at any government (policeman, teacher, parent) they don't like.
The other points, dictatorship....dictatorship and facism aren't synonyms, specifically facism generally requires a dictatorship similar to hitler or jong-il or mugabe, a singlular notjob....not just any old non-democratic system like China or Indonesia.
Your han point is just ridiculous, of course han dominate, 92% of Chinese are han......it'd be pretty damn suspicious if 90%+ of government officials weren't the same.

As for your continued accusations of propaganda, I ask again....how much chinese propaganda do you think I've ever seen or heard?

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: China called.... - 11/19/2009 10:54:35 AM   
luckydawg


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My apologies DC, I thought you walked off. The Han are the Majority, so were the Germans in Germany, but they dominate through brute force and violence, which seems to meet the definition to me. Do you follow what is happening to the Tibetians and Xuigurs?

Every Facist state I have seen is ruled by a Party Buearcracy, with a glourius leader at the top, feel free to name one that isn't/wasn't. Do you think Hu, doesnt have a cult of personality? Are you asserting that Facism is unable to have a transfer of power (from one leader to the next)? That it is entirley personality based? There are plenty of definiton of Facism, but that is not a characteristic I have ever heard. And I have never seen one that did not include the unity of Bussiness and state (though sometimes economics is implied in the controll of all aspects of life.) or "economic regimentation".

Wiki has a good basic definintion,
Fascism, pronounced /ˈfæʃɪzəm/, is a political ideology that seeks to combine radical and authoritarian nationalism[1][2][3][4] with a corporatist economic system,[5] and which is usually considered to be on the far right of the traditional left-right political spectrum.[dubious – discuss][6][7][8][9][10] Fascists believe that nations and/or races are in perpetual conflict whereby only the strong can survive by being healthy, vital, and by asserting themselves in conflict against the weak.[11]

Fascists advocate the creation of a single-party state,[12] with the belief that the majority is unsuited to govern itself through democracy and by reaffirming the benefits of inequality.[13] Fascist governments forbid and suppress openness and opposition to the fascist state and the fascist movement.[14] Fascism opposes class conflict, blames capitalism and liberal democracies for its creation and communists for exploiting the concept.[15] Fascism fashioned itself as the "Complete opposite of Marxian socialism..."[16] by rejecting the economic and material conception of history, the fundamental belief of fascism being that human beings are motivated by glory and heroism rather than economic motives, in contrast to the worldview of capitalism and socialism.[17]

In the economic sphere, many fascist leaders have claimed to support a "Third Way" in economic policy, which they believed superior to both the rampant individualism of unrestrained capitalism and the severe control of state socialism.[18][19] This was to be achieved by establishing significant government control over business and labour (Mussolini called his nation's system "the corporate state").[20][21]


And I think China hits every one of them.




But ok, you agree with my original point, that they are not called "Red" anymore, because they quit being communist 15-20 years ago. (not pretending you agree with my point that they are facist)

How would you classify thier system?








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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: China called.... - 11/19/2009 1:08:21 PM   
DCWoody


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Well that's where it all falls down, I don't think basic labels can be applied to most things at all, every situation is different.....the basic democratic or not thing is a good example of this. The more I look into it, the more China seems like it is pretty close to being a democracy...not quite, but certainly not a dictatorship.
If I had to sum up chinas govt, I'd say it's some sort benevolent* fusion of democracy & dictatorship......but certainly not facist.
Looking through that wiki definition I can't help but think that they specifically miss every point,
"Fascism fashioned itself as the "Complete opposite of Marxian socialism..." for example....


*Not from tibets pov, but seem to have the best interests of chinese people at heart, they're not out to line their pockets....much of what I see from the chinese govt seems to be good governance.


What I've heard about what's 'happening' to what I'll assume you're right in calling Xuigurs is mobs beating the crap out of each other, not government oppression.

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