Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: So now the Health Care debate is a color issue?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: So now the Health Care debate is a color issue? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: So now the Health Care debate is a color issue? - 11/19/2009 8:12:15 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Jackson is passionate, sometimes too passionate. But he was giving a speach to the Black Caucus. I dont see it as a racial issue.



......sorry Tazzy, but i have to disagree. Seems to me to be a wholly reprehensible line from Rev Jackson. This is not a race issue, it's a social one. Everyone has a stake. There are passionate believers on both sides of the debate and nothing is gained by this sort of divisive, racist bullshit.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: So now the Health Care debate is a color issue? - 11/20/2009 8:18:50 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Why do we than title men like this as leaders of the black community?.... Or is that also incorrect?


I think you are incorrect in that statement: I don't think "we" do so title them. I don't think "the black community" does either (it's hardly a unified group). They speak, and people them treat as such, as you're assuming here.

Men like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have their own agendas and seek publicity to stay current. They are no more leaders of "the black community" than, say, Newt Gingrich or Pat Robertson are the leaders of "the white community" or even "the Republican community" or "the Christian community." They're just well-known people who talk a lot.

Responding to them as if they are such leaders is a dangerous path. Somebody made a speech. End of news day.


(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: So now the Health Care debate is a color issue? - 11/20/2009 8:37:41 AM   
xBullx


Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline
I can accept that. Though it might have helped me in their validity had the comments you made came from a black man though.

To bad 11 ran off DG...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Why do we than title men like this as leaders of the black community?.... Or is that also incorrect?


I think you are incorrect in that statement: I don't think "we" do so title them. I don't think "the black community" does either (it's hardly a unified group). They speak, and people them treat as such, as you're assuming here.

Men like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have their own agendas and seek publicity to stay current. They are no more leaders of "the black community" than, say, Newt Gingrich or Pat Robertson are the leaders of "the white community" or even "the Republican community" or "the Christian community." They're just well-known people who talk a lot.

Responding to them as if they are such leaders is a dangerous path. Somebody made a speech. End of news day.





_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: So now the Health Care debate is a color issue? - 11/20/2009 8:46:31 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

All the more reason to allow policies to be sold across state lines. Supported by the GOP, not by the Dems.


I keep hearing this but I don't understand the benefit.

All this will do is allow the insurance companies to create a nationwide monopoly instead of statewide.

You will have the smaller companies unable to compete.






< Message edited by rulemylife -- 11/20/2009 8:58:13 AM >

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: So now the Health Care debate is a color issue? - 11/20/2009 9:00:25 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
All the more reason to allow policies to be sold across state lines. Supported by the GOP, not by the Dems.

I keep hearing this but I don't understand the benefit.

All this will do is allow the insurance companies to create a nationwide monopoly instead of statewide.

You will have the smaller companies unable to compete.


Much more importantly, it will allow insurance companies to write policies in a state and yet not necessarily have to follow that state's restrictions and regulations.

A bad, bad idea, from a group that favors states' rights only when it serves their immediate purpose.


(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: So now the Health Care debate is a color issue? - 11/20/2009 9:39:09 AM   
xBullx


Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline
Excellent points!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
All the more reason to allow policies to be sold across state lines. Supported by the GOP, not by the Dems.

I keep hearing this but I don't understand the benefit.

All this will do is allow the insurance companies to create a nationwide monopoly instead of statewide.

You will have the smaller companies unable to compete.


Much more importantly, it will allow insurance companies to write policies in a state and yet not necessarily have to follow that state's restrictions and regulations.

A bad, bad idea, from a group that favors states' rights only when it serves their immediate purpose.





_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: So now the Health Care debate is a color issue? - 11/20/2009 9:49:41 AM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hierodule
Its not a race issue its a class issue.


A-fucking-men

Class is the real taboo in American politics. We have a decent handle on racism, but class is the thing we are ashamed to even acknowledge, let alone discuss. A common man gets sent to prison for life for stealing a slice of pizza, but a Wall Streeter who steal billions pays a fine and gets home in time for his massage. Dickens couldn't write something so outrageous.

Rich black people (And yes, there are more than you think) get good health care just like white people. It is poor and working class people who get treated terribly. Its only a race issue tangentially, because blacks are over-represented in the poor class.

As for that boy whose family wont get treatment for his prosthetic arm? It is not a specific problem, it is a general problem. telling people to go across state lines and be smart shoppers for health care, or health insurance is a sick joke.
Your insurance policy is writen by a team of lawyers and health care professionals, not for the purpose of making sure you are covered, but for the purpose of making sure they never have to pay; this isn't an aberration from how it is supposed to work- this is how the marketplace IS SUPPOSED TO WORK. This is whats called an "arms length" transaction, and they are not supposed to look out for your interests.

As long as health care is sold like a used car, people will always discover that the policy they "thought" covered everything, covers only some things, like the car they "thought" was in good condition actually burns oil.
We don't say that a used car salesman who stretches the truth is an aberration; he is playing according to the rules.

And you know what, if we are talking about used cars, I say great- let the buyer beware. People are free to enter or leave the used-car market.

But health care isn't something you can choose to take or not. No one is allowed to choose whether or not to get old, no one is allowed to choose whether they get cancer or not. If you get sick, you are forced into the health care marketplace, where you have no expertise, no skill, no way of knowing what is good for you or not.

So we all are completely dependent on doctors to tell us what we need; and unless we have a couple million sitting around somewhere, we are completely dependent on insurance companies and 200 page policies written in legalese that would take an army of lawyers to decpipher;
And you have to pay premiums for years, maybe decades before findingout if what you bought was in fact worth anything; and even then, the insurance company is free to deny covereage forcing you to sue them, a multi-year process that pits your attorney against the army of legal minds they have on retainer.

This is not a free marketplace, of informed consumers and choices, of relative equals negotiating from a position of strength; this is a rigged game, a corrupt casino where the dice are loaded, the roulette wheel is tilted, the cops are on the take, the house always, always wins and you, my friend, are the fat pigeon, the rube who walks in thinking he can beat the system.

(in reply to Hierodule)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: So now the Health Care debate is a color issue? - 11/20/2009 11:48:32 AM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline
I understand why it would be an issue for Jesse Jackson seeing as his friend Martin Luther King was shot dead and all the other background he has, it makes sense that he would see most things based on race or color but for most other people, the vast majority, color is irrelevant.

And I will add, I am very much looking forward to the debate beginning tonight at 8 PM to get passage of a health care bill under way.

(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: So now the Health Care debate is a color issue? - 11/20/2009 11:51:05 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

All the more reason to allow policies to be sold across state lines. Supported by the GOP, not by the Dems.


I keep hearing this but I don't understand the benefit.

All this will do is allow the insurance companies to create a nationwide monopoly instead of statewide.

You will have the smaller companies unable to compete.







Apparently you don't understand the nature of competition.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: So now the Health Care debate is a color issue? - 11/20/2009 11:54:26 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
All the more reason to allow policies to be sold across state lines. Supported by the GOP, not by the Dems.

I keep hearing this but I don't understand the benefit.

All this will do is allow the insurance companies to create a nationwide monopoly instead of statewide.

You will have the smaller companies unable to compete.


Much more importantly, it will allow insurance companies to write policies in a state and yet not necessarily have to follow that state's restrictions and regulations.

A bad, bad idea, from a group that favors states' rights only when it serves their immediate purpose.




Hmmmmm....good point.

Oh, wait, I know, change the laws to make them uniform.

Gee that was hard.

States rights????? lmfao. Youre advocating the government taking over every aspect of health insurance and health practice in the country, and compare that to a states rights problem in making laws that govern private companies uniform? unfuckingbelievable

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: So now the Health Care debate is a color issue? - 11/20/2009 3:31:59 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
When your fucking ass is done being off, along with your logic, come on back for a look, and sort out what was said from what you decided was said.

1) Where did I advocate "the government taking over every aspect of health insurance and health practice in the country"? Oh yeah, I didn't.

2) Changing state insurance laws to make them uniform is simple? Are you new in this country?

3) I'm not even in favor of such uniform laws. I like that my state has stricter regulations than federal ones would likely be.

4) State's rights are a factor. Even now, the talk of the Senate bill includes provisions that states can opt out of.

5) What I said was that the GOP cry states' rights at times and ignore them at times to suit their purpose at the moment. That, along with their history of obstructing health care, undermines the credibility of their claims.

Believe it or not, fuckable or not, but you and Merc need to learn the difference between ridicule and reason.

It mystifies me from you--you can make solid sense when you want to...and then other times, you just take silly swipes.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 11/20/2009 3:53:30 PM >

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: So now the Health Care debate is a color issue? - 11/20/2009 6:23:03 PM   
Acer49


Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

Jesse Jackson: You Cant Vote Against Health Care and Call Yourself Black

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11/19/jesse-jackson-reportedly-warns-black-lawmakers-opposing-health-care/

Ok, I'm white, I'm from middle America and don't have any African American neighbors and I know I don't understand all the black issues that exist, but how the hell can this health care bullshit be race determining? And if that's the case I have to appoligize to all the folks I thought I was being honest with saying I was not racist.

I was truly against the present health care concepts because I don't believe they solve anything that the average American needs solved with regards to this issue.




Jackson has done very little over his lifetime other than to shoot off his mouth or make racial remarks that have very little if any  validity


_____________________________

Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
Harvey Fierstein

(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: So now the Health Care debate is a color issue? - 11/20/2009 7:27:29 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Apparently you don't understand the nature of competition.


Apparently you don't understand the nature of a substantial, well thought-out rebuttal.

Instead of your usual one-line responses implying that you have some superior knowledge of the issue but always failing to explain what that is.






< Message edited by rulemylife -- 11/20/2009 7:30:04 PM >

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: So now the Health Care debate is a color issue? - 11/20/2009 7:39:47 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
quote:

My point is the same, where can we find the answers to what ails us?
There is only one answer...universal single-payer insurance. You guys will get there eventually, but I doubt it will be in my lifetime.

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!


Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: So now the Health Care debate is a color issue? - 11/20/2009 7:46:32 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

To bad 11 ran off DG...



DG is paler than you, but it's true that he fooled many with his Tupac avatar.

_____________________________



(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: So now the Health Care debate is a color issue? - 11/20/2009 8:43:42 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
Baby steps... it seems this country always needs to take baby steps.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: So now the Health Care debate is a color issue? - 11/20/2009 9:02:23 PM   
blacksword404


Posts: 2068
Joined: 1/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

ok.... Why do we than title men like this as leaders of the black community?.... Or is that also incorrect? I'm actually hoping so.


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

just Jesse frothing at the mouth again.




Well the instead of asking a guy like me what I think they will instead appoint leaders for the black community so they can ask them instead. They keep going either to al sharpton or jesse. And they love being on tv. But talking to just those two does not necessarily get them any kind of consensus of what our community might think. But thats not what the media was after anyway. They just needed someone black and important to quote.

_____________________________

Don't fight him. Embrace your inner asshole.

Tu fellas magnus penum meum...iterum

Genuine catnip/kryptonite.
Ego sum erus.

The capacity to learn is a gift, the ability to learn a skill, the willingness to learn a choice. Dune HH

(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: So now the Health Care debate is a color issue? - 11/21/2009 7:13:20 AM   
xBullx


Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline
Thanks neighbor.... So what do you think? Cause our country needs us all on target for "We the People" and not what seems to be "They the Government".

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

ok.... Why do we than title men like this as leaders of the black community?.... Or is that also incorrect? I'm actually hoping so.


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

just Jesse frothing at the mouth again.




Well the instead of asking a guy like me what I think they will instead appoint leaders for the black community so they can ask them instead. They keep going either to al sharpton or jesse. And they love being on tv. But talking to just those two does not necessarily get them any kind of consensus of what our community might think. But thats not what the media was after anyway. They just needed someone black and important to quote.



_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to blacksword404)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: So now the Health Care debate is a color issue? - 11/21/2009 7:28:19 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Cause our country needs us all on target for "We the People" and not what seems to be "They the Government".


Actually, I think the problem is being on target for "We the Political Party," ignoring both the people and good government.

(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: So now the Health Care debate is a color issue? - 11/21/2009 7:36:11 AM   
xBullx


Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline
"We the Party and Lobbiest Cash Bases" so yes I do concur with that point.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Cause our country needs us all on target for "We the People" and not what seems to be "They the Government".


Actually, I think the problem is being on target for "We the Political Party," ignoring both the people and good government.



_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: So now the Health Care debate is a color issue? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094