viva el Presidente! qui?

viva el Presidente! qui? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

LadyEllen -> viva el Presidente! qui? (11/19/2009 2:46:01 PM)
Mijnheer Van Rompuy is the new EU President! Let the bells peal out across the land(s) in glory at this wondrous celebration of democracy! Except that he's the President of the Council Of Ministers - a chairman in other words, to the meetings of the ministers from each state that take place. Not a President in any meaningful sense (though watch this space of course). Mr Blair was rejected, (apparently), though its unclear whether he was ever actually seriously considered. The real power today, handed out undemocratically to a woman made an EU Commissioner equally undemocratically, was the appointment of Catherine Ashton, who now heads up the "foreign office" of the EU, in charge of 6000 diplomats worldwide. Let the US, Russia, China and the so called emerging economies tremble with fear at the mention of Baroness Ashton! More later; I'm off to apply for a cushy well paid job (with expenses) as an EU diplomat. E

popeye1250 -> RE: viva el Presidente! qui? (11/19/2009 4:15:02 PM)
L.E., 6,000 diplomats in the E.U.? There's only what,...194 or so countries in the whole world! Just what is it that those "diplomats" do?

LadyEllen -> RE: viva el Presidente! qui? (11/19/2009 4:34:07 PM)
no idea T, but you may be assured it is useful work at a good salary E

willbeurdaddy -> RE: viva el Presidente! qui? (11/19/2009 4:34:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 L.E., 6,000 diplomats in the E.U.? There's only what,...194 or so countries in the whole world! Just what is it that those "diplomats" do? Dip of course (in the street crime sense of the word)

DCWoody -> RE: viva el Presidente! qui? (11/19/2009 5:12:21 PM)
There are 27 nations in the EU, 195 widely recognised nations and a few more that aren't exactly UN members, but definitely exist....and numerous international organisations....the UN and NATO big boys, but there are a fair few. Say 200 other nations & bodies for the EU to represent to, 27*200=5400. So in fairness there are more legitimate jobs there than you'd at first think. Especially considering how suspiciously round the 6000 quoted in the news is, I reckon there are far better targets for waste jobs in the EU than these which would mostly exist even without the EU....

willbeurdaddy -> RE: viva el Presidente! qui? (11/19/2009 8:32:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DCWoody I reckon there are far better targets for waste jobs in the EU than these which would mostly exist even without the EU.... Agreed. Pickpockets are pickpockets, doesnt matter who they are supposed to be representing.

Politesub53 -> RE: viva el Presidente! qui? (11/20/2009 10:40:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Mijnheer Van Rompuy is the new EU President! Let the bells peal out across the land(s) in glory at this wondrous celebration of democracy! Except that he's the President of the Council Of Ministers - a chairman in other words, to the meetings of the ministers from each state that take place. Not a President in any meaningful sense (though watch this space of course). Mr Blair was rejected, (apparently), though its unclear whether he was ever actually seriously considered. The real power today, handed out undemocratically to a woman made an EU Commissioner equally undemocratically, was the appointment of Catherine Ashton, who now heads up the "foreign office" of the EU, in charge of 6000 diplomats worldwide. Let the US, Russia, China and the so called emerging economies tremble with fear at the mention of Baroness Ashton! More later; I'm off to apply for a cushy well paid job (with expenses) as an EU diplomat. E If you voted Labour you share the blame. This was always on Blair and Browns agenda.

popeye1250 -> RE: viva el Presidente! qui? (11/20/2009 3:12:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DCWoody There are 27 nations in the EU, 195 widely recognised nations and a few more that aren't exactly UN members, but definitely exist....and numerous international organisations....the UN and NATO big boys, but there are a fair few. Say 200 other nations & bodies for the EU to represent to, 27*200=5400. So in fairness there are more legitimate jobs there than you'd at first think. Especially considering how suspiciously round the 6000 quoted in the news is, I reckon there are far better targets for waste jobs in the EU than these which would mostly exist even without the EU.... Woody, the problem is that if anyone "applied" for one of those "jobs" do you think they'd get it? I mean "anyone" would be eligable right?

LadyEllen -> RE: viva el Presidente! qui? (11/21/2009 6:56:26 AM)
Well T, it seems that the new "EEAS" will be staffed from a mixture of the 7000-odd officials currently employed in missions worldwide by the EU, plus diplomats already working worldwide seconded from national governments. The maths is interesting, suggesting a couple or few thousand are to lose their jobs, and their careers, whilst opportunities for new entrants will be severely limited or absent. The maths also implies some considerable cost savings in itself, and the reduction of missions to one, (from, often several to any one country), to each extra EU country implies more savings. In an organisation that hasnt had its accounts signed off for 15 years because no auditor will touch them with a bargepole, another wave of available cash sloshing around is probably most welcome. I believe in the EU. But I entirely reject the way it looks now, and has looked for many years, and the way it acts now, and has acted for many years. The problem is, to make it work properly, even adequately, would necessitate it becoming a superstate like the US and that simply wouldnt work given the defined cultural divisions that exist across the continent and which make it impossible at best for nations to surrender sovereignty as would be required. But then a superstate is what we are heading towards anyway, and because of that problem, without any democratic input, oversight or control whatever. E

pahunkboy -> RE: viva el Presidente! qui? (11/21/2009 11:54:24 AM)
Oh goodie. (sarcasm) Centralized control. /snip ;-0

popeye1250 -> RE: viva el Presidente! qui? (11/21/2009 12:38:18 PM)
L.E. I just don't think having "career" Diplomats is a good idea. I don't think it ever is! In the U.S. "Ambassodors" serve for as long as the president usually. Four or eight years. Then we have people who want to make a "career" in the State Dept, again, not a good idea unless they're doing secretarial work and by that I mean typing and filing.

Politesub53 -> RE: viva el Presidente! qui? (11/21/2009 1:56:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen I believe in the EU. But I entirely reject the way it looks now, and has looked for many years, and the way it acts now, and has acted for many years. The problem is, to make it work properly, even adequately, would necessitate it becoming a superstate like the US and that simply wouldnt work given the defined cultural divisions that exist across the continent and which make it impossible at best for nations to surrender sovereignty as would be required. But then a superstate is what we are heading towards anyway, and because of that problem, without any democratic input, oversight or control whatever. E Once again, blame those of you who voted for Labours very clear policy. If left as originally intended, as a common market place for free trade, it still wouldnt have worked. The richer nations would always hold the bargaining chips. The whole thing is a costly lame duck and should be dispensed with. Blair was warned time and again by his own advisors on signing up to parts of this. You know the rest.

Rhodes85 -> RE: viva el Presidente! qui? (11/21/2009 6:37:01 PM)
'L.E., 6,000 diplomats in the E.U.? There's only what,...194 or so countries in the whole world! Just what is it that those "diplomats" do? ' Well theres the ambassador...the assistant to the ambassador...the assistant to the assistant to the ambassador...the assistant to the assistant to the assistant to the ambassador (gets paid big $$ to get coffee for the assistants)..... Don't you love how governments work? [:D]

LadyEllen -> RE: viva el Presidente! qui? (11/22/2009 7:14:17 AM)
PS - I really dont understand your point? The UK has little or no influence in the EU whereby to exert control on its mechanisms, oversight or future, so what the Chuckle Brothers thought, think, intended or intend is pretty much irrelevant to the situation, which continues along the agenda of the Benelux, French and German states and their allies in the absence of British influence and engagement. And one must say, the reason the UK has so little or no influence is because of the way its people view the EU, aided and abetted in that view by the Murdoch press, some odd aspiration to be the 51st State and an outdated view of its place in the world whereby any intent to engage with the other member states is seen as a betrayal of national interests even unto treason, even though such engagement is intended to promote national interests. One cannot expect to make friends and influence people by regarding them as "damnable foreigners" in the context of a pre-1945 worldview, when they have long since moved on. It will be absolutely no different from 2010, and it would have been absolutely no different since 1997 had the Tories been in power. E

Moonhead -> RE: viva el Presidente! qui? (11/22/2009 7:32:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Once again, blame those of you who voted for Labours very clear policy. If left as originally intended, as a common market place for free trade, it still wouldnt have worked. The richer nations would always hold the bargaining chips. The whole thing is a costly lame duck and should be dispensed with. Blair was warned time and again by his own advisors on signing up to parts of this. You know the rest. Which is why the fact that the wanker had the brass neck to stand for the Presidency is so hilarious. It's nearly as funny as people who don't mind having our foreign policy dictated by whichever cretin the Americans elected last whining about loss of sovereignity to Brussels. It isn't the EU's fault that nobody in this country gives a flying fuck who their MEP is, or even what they're supposed to be doing, is it?

Politesub53 -> RE: viva el Presidente! qui? (11/22/2009 9:26:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen PS - I really dont understand your point? The UK has little or no influence in the EU whereby to exert control on its mechanisms, oversight or future, so what the Chuckle Brothers thought, think, intended or intend is pretty much irrelevant to the situation E Whats not to understand. You voted Blair in, he kept his word and signed up to some clauses, but failed to keep his word on a referendum. The chuckle brothers alone got you this far, not the Liberals, not the Tories. You are wide of the mark with your comments on " Damnable foreigners" also. France and Germany have always pushed their own agenda, from the outset. Yet again you blame Murdoch and the Tories, yet give the real culprits a free pass.

Politesub53 -> RE: viva el Presidente! qui? (11/22/2009 9:33:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Which is why the fact that the wanker had the brass neck to stand for the Presidency is so hilarious. It's nearly as funny as people who don't mind having our foreign policy dictated by whichever cretin the Americans elected last whining about loss of sovereignity to Brussels. It isn't the EU's fault that nobody in this country gives a flying fuck who their MEP is, or even what they're supposed to be doing, is it? Personally i dont want any British policies decided by brussels or the US. As for the remark about not knowing who our MEP is, it makes no difference. We didnt get a say when the gravy train that is the Kinnocks got into power, nor the disgraced Mandelson. Lets not pretend the EU is democratic, nor that the electorate get a say. You have glibly forgotten how many times the Lisbon Treaty has been voted out by those that had a vote, only to be pushed under peoples noses with a few sweetners passed about, until it was finally voted in. This isnt socialism but social elitism. IE, same shit, different day.

LadyEllen -> RE: viva el Presidente! qui? (11/23/2009 5:34:26 AM)
I see. So we ought to choose whom to vote for more carefully then is what youre saying, taking account of both their policies in relation to improving the state of the nation and its citizens as well as those in relation to the EU? Sadly, I would expect a street poll to show that most people wouldnt know what a manifesto is, let alone how to get one or how to comprehend one. So, we are back to the Murdoch dominated media to tell us whom to vote for. Or we could vote UKIP or even BNP as the only means by which to send a clear message on the subject and perhaps propagate a withdrawal of the UK if the foreigners dont play fair? Foreigners I use as a polite version for what the Murdoch press refers to them as - eg "Krauts", "Frogs" et al, in its crusade to enhance the view of Europe for the masses. Again, we cant expect to make friends and influence people in this way. Equally we cant expect to be able to withdraw from the EU without it causing disastrous economic consequences, and if we dont engage then we will be swept along on the Franco-German current without any say in the matter. What do you suggest? E

Politesub53 -> RE: viva el Presidente! qui? (11/23/2009 10:52:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen I see. So we ought to choose whom to vote for more carefully then is what youre saying, taking account of both their policies in relation to improving the state of the nation and its citizens as well as those in relation to the EU? Sadly, I would expect a street poll to show that most people wouldnt know what a manifesto is, let alone how to get one or how to comprehend one. So, we are back to the Murdoch dominated media to tell us whom to vote for. Or we could vote UKIP or even BNP as the only means by which to send a clear message on the subject and perhaps propagate a withdrawal of the UK if the foreigners dont play fair? Foreigners I use as a polite version for what the Murdoch press refers to them as - eg "Krauts", "Frogs" et al, in its crusade to enhance the view of Europe for the masses. Again, we cant expect to make friends and influence people in this way. Equally we cant expect to be able to withdraw from the EU without it causing disastrous economic consequences, and if we dont engage then we will be swept along on the Franco-German current without any say in the matter. What do you suggest? E What I suggest is you read the manifestos next time. Dont vote for Labour if you dont like the policies they offer. So far you have blamed Murdoch, the Tories and the electorate. There was no secret about Labours intentions prior to the last election. The only ( and simplest ) answer was next time, dont vote for them. As for the EU, if you dont think Germany and France already have the upper hand, i dont know what to tell you. Actually your first statement neatly answered your own question Lady E.

Moonhead -> RE: viva el Presidente! qui? (11/23/2009 11:38:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen I see. So we ought to choose whom to vote for more carefully then is what youre saying, taking account of both their policies in relation to improving the state of the nation and its citizens as well as those in relation to the EU? Sadly, I would expect a street poll to show that most people wouldnt know what a manifesto is, let alone how to get one or how to comprehend one. So, we are back to the Murdoch dominated media to tell us whom to vote for. Or we could vote UKIP or even BNP as the only means by which to send a clear message on the subject and perhaps propagate a withdrawal of the UK if the foreigners dont play fair? Foreigners I use as a polite version for what the Murdoch press refers to them as - eg "Krauts", "Frogs" et al, in its crusade to enhance the view of Europe for the masses. Again, we cant expect to make friends and influence people in this way. Equally we cant expect to be able to withdraw from the EU without it causing disastrous economic consequences, and if we dont engage then we will be swept along on the Franco-German current without any say in the matter. What do you suggest? E What I suggest is you read the manifestos next time. Dont vote for Labour if you dont like the policies they offer. So far you have blamed Murdoch, the Tories and the electorate. There was no secret about Labours intentions prior to the last election. The only ( and simplest ) answer was next time, dont vote for them. As for the EU, if you dont think Germany and France already have the upper hand, i dont know what to tell you. France and Germany have the upper hand because they actually try to use the EEC to their advantage instead of refusing to have anything to do with it when they're not begging for more farm subsidies. No idea where you've got the notion that labour are pro Europe from either: Blair hates the EEC with a passion as it undermined his reign as autocrat, and it's just demonstrated that it doesn't much like him, as well. Still, if you prefer to have your country seen as America's snivelling little bitch rather than part of Europe, then that's your decision.

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

3.515625E-02