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Training for Dominants? - 3/12/2006 10:03:29 AM   
tx061


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Hi!

I am new to this lifestyle and wish to be a Dom. Does one become a submissive first to learn what it is about?

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RE: Training for Dominants? - 3/12/2006 10:20:25 AM   
JohnWarren


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From: Delray Beach, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tx061

Hi!

I am new to this lifestyle and wish to be a Dom. Does one become a submissive first to learn what it is about?


I have known people who have taken this approach. In my opinion, it has produced some excellent dominants and some who were complete fools.

You can read books. There are a lot of good non-fiction books out. Many of them are produced by Greenery Press www.greenerypress.com

You can get involved in the community, both in informal meetings and by taking classes offered by organized groups. A source for groups near you can be found at www.darkheart.com/usalist.html



_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to tx061)
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RE: Training for Dominants? - 3/12/2006 10:25:02 AM   
SlavepetEnslaver


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For me I was submissive at first because I honestly thought that was right for me at the time, I experienced it then I began switching and topping in the future, in time I found myself discovering that I truly enjoyed dominating. Although I am relatively new compared to others, my advice is experiencement with topping and bottoming, trying to find the right partner and discover what is right for yourself in the end...which is what I did for myself...I wish it was easier to find mentors to train dominants though, so we could get some assistnace allong the ways;)

(in reply to JohnWarren)
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RE: Training for Dominants? - 3/12/2006 10:44:22 AM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tx061

Hi!

I am new to this lifestyle and wish to be a Dom. Does one become a submissive first to learn what it is about?




There is no one "right" way to be a dominant. As for "becoming" one, some would suggest this is impossible, much like a goldfish becoming a trout. Either you are or you aren't. Now, it is quite possible to learn the mannerisms, language, skills, etc, and making believe you're one, but that still is only a facade. Which isn't a crime, but why not be what you truly are?

Some do indeed bottom before (and after, for that matter) becoming what they feel/know they are. Looking at life from the other side of the fence can give one knowledge that may be useful down the road.

Books, mentoring, and even studying online can help you learn what it is you seek.

My personal advice: once you know for sure you are a dominant, realize that you'll have your own way of doing things. But if you do not include responsiblity for not only yourself, but your submissive.....physically, mentally, and emotionally....you may find yourself in a bad place.

Level

(in reply to tx061)
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RE: Training for Dominants? - 3/12/2006 11:30:30 AM   
JohnWarren


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From: Delray Beach, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlavepetEnslaver
I wish it was easier to find mentors to train dominants though, so we could get some assistnace allong the ways;)


If you want one, exclusive mentor, obviously you have to have something to offer. However, there are plenty of people willing to help novices. Almost every group I know of has occasional classes, and many of them have regular ones. In addition, there are regional gatherings like Black Rose and Sinsations in Leather that have large numbers of classes for anyone willing to learn.

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

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RE: Training for Dominants? - 3/12/2006 12:26:09 PM   
amayos


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tx061

Does one become a submissive first to learn what it is about?




You needn't be, but it is well to do so. What is in the end that is far more important will be the reality of your desire, mettle and what prevails within you. As others have expressed over countless threads, what character truly lies inward is of notable import.

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RE: Training for Dominants? - 3/13/2006 3:11:10 AM   
Focus50


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Personally, I don't see it as "deciding" to be a Dom (or sub)! Unlike some sorta carrer choice, I see it more as *discovering* you're a Dom - or not. Think along the lines of those who discover they're gay - or do you think they decide to be?
quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

You needn't be, but it is well to do so.

That may work for some but there are those who also frown on the very suggestion; those like me! To me, D/s is about control and I'm not in the habit of allowing others to control me within any assertive dynamic. Blood has been spilled resisting such a notion! But hey, if you see Dom or sub as no more than choosing a role for some kink, then you may as well taste both....

Focus.

(in reply to amayos)
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RE: Training for Dominants? - 3/13/2006 9:25:11 AM   
amayos


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

You needn't be, but it is well to do so.
That may work for some but there are those who also frown on the very suggestion; those like me! To me, D/s is about control and I'm not in the habit of allowing others to control me within any assertive dynamic. Blood has been spilled resisting such a notion! But hey, if you see Dom or sub as no more than choosing a role for some kink, then you may as well taste both....



While I generally do agree and relate with you, I'm sure you can likewise understand the wisdom in exploring the roots and the branches of a thing, particularly if your aim is to be ruler. It stands to reason that it allows the dominant a more intimate understanding of what it means to serve. It lends to a certain empathy, or in the very least, perhaps a keener knowledge of the intrinsic psychology within submission; learning of the vulnerabilities and desires therein so as to better make use of them.

(in reply to Focus50)
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RE: Training for Dominants? - 3/13/2006 9:36:39 AM   
Lordandmaster


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Just find a sub and explore. You'll probably have more luck with a sub who is relatively new also (most subs aren't too fond of neophyte doms anyway), but an experienced sub could show you a thing or two.

I'm not a big fan of the "you have to be a sub first before you can be a dom" principle, but it works for some people. The main problem with it is that being on the receiving end of a whip as a sub is not at all the same thing as being on the receiving end of a whip as a dom who is trying to figure out what it's like to be a sub. Sometimes people say you have to know how something feels before you can try it out on another person. Well, I don't believe you can ever know how it feels to someone who is wired the opposite way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tx061

I am new to this lifestyle and wish to be a Dom. Does one become a submissive first to learn what it is about?


(in reply to tx061)
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RE: Training for Dominants? - 3/13/2006 10:20:11 AM   
MrDiscipline44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
I'm not a big fan of the "you have to be a sub first before you can be a dom" principle, but it works for some people. The main problem with it is that being on the receiving end of a whip as a sub is not at all the same thing as being on the receiving end of a whip as a dom who is trying to figure out what it's like to be a sub. Sometimes people say you have to know how something feels before you can try it out on another person. Well, I don't believe you can ever know how it feels to someone who is wired the opposite way.


Inevitably, you always get that one or two subbies that say: "Have you tried this item/technique on yourself?"
To which I answer: "Now why would I want to do that?"
Their response tends to be: "So you know how it feels."
"Well thats silly. What does it matter how it feels to me when I'm not going to have it done to me? I'm going to do it to her." is my usual response.

They also like to say: "So you know that it is safe."
I respond: "If there is a question as to it's safety, I've explored it fully and I'm satisfied with what I've found out."

Then there is the ever popular: "So you know how the submissive feels."
"Well how does that help? For one, I'm not wired as a submissive so I couldn't possibly understand what this feels like to them just as they don't understand what it feels like to me to be in charge. Secondly, even if I could understand what it feels like to be submissive, I'm not this submissive. I would be a wholely seperate individual and therefore, how I would feel about this would not be how she feels about it."

So totally understand where LordandMaster is coming from.


_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
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RE: Training for Dominants? - 3/13/2006 10:42:26 AM   
IronBear


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From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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Iron Bear’s Training Schedule For Dominants


Give trainees a 10lb Canadian Splitter and 20 tons of4’ red-gum and tell them to split into pieces suitable for the open fire. They should be aware of an almost endless supply of the wood. They will continue with this task 10 hours a day with a 30 minute lunch break 7 days a week 365 days a year. Every morning and after lunch each trainee is asked one question. “Why are you here?” Unless they answer correctly they will continue in the task.

It should be noted that they will not speak at all except to answer the supervisor twice daily the question asked.

When they can reply correctly “I no longer belong here.” They may then leave the wood pile and splitter and progress to advanced training for they have learned the most important lesson of all.

Patience, Duty, Dedication, Determination and Understanding.


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)
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RE: Training for Dominants? - 3/13/2006 1:35:40 PM   
Zensee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tx061
I am new to this lifestyle and wish to be a Dom.

Perhaps your choice of words is just that, a choice of words. Or perhaps it reveals something. We may "wish" to be something we are not. Sometimes people in the lifestyle seek a vicarious experience of their own needs by trying to be the one who would fulfil those needs.

Have you sincerely determined what you are as opposed to what you wish you were?

_____________________________

"Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water." (proverb)

(in reply to tx061)
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RE: Training for Dominants? - 3/13/2006 2:49:26 PM   
KnightofMists


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I think you better understand what you think is a Dominant. I read some of the answers on this thread, and I see for myself alot of description of Tops but not dominants. I like how Focus expressed it as more a discovering than a choice. I concur with this idea. Thou we must make choices to act upon what we discover.. but it to me really is a constant road of discovering oneself. If you want to talk about using floggers and other toys on another, tying someone up or a host of other actions. Well you could very well just be talking about a Top and not a Dominant in my opinion. The two very often co-exist... but it not a rule that they do! Now, keep in mind, what you think or anyone else thinks is a Dominant or is a Top will be different. It's is individual and personal... and frankly, over time... it will evolve and change with experience.

good luck and welcome to the boards!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to tx061)
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RE: Training for Dominants? - 3/13/2006 3:22:12 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

Does one become a submissive first to learn what it is about?


Does it help a bird to fly by first trying to swim?

quote:

I am new to this lifestyle and wish to be a Dom.


Why?

The honest answer is all the training you'll every need.

GOOD LUCK!

(in reply to tx061)
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RE: Training for Dominants? - 3/14/2006 1:51:06 AM   
Focus50


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From: Newcastle, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos
While I generally do agree and relate with you, I'm sure you can likewise understand the wisdom in exploring the roots and the branches of a thing, particularly if your aim is to be ruler. It stands to reason that it allows the dominant a more intimate understanding of what it means to serve. It lends to a certain empathy, or in the very least, perhaps a keener knowledge of the intrinsic psychology within submission; learning of the vulnerabilities and desires therein so as to better make use of them.

Not quite...! I don't accept there's any *wisdom* at all in choosing or being pressured into such a path but I do understand that some do anyway. It's almost like saying there's wisdom in dressing and looking like a female before one can truly appreciate being the male he was born. Is there wisdom in heteros trying a gay experience in order to appreciate being hetero? And don't even get me started on that nineties crap about men "getting in touch with their alleged feminine side"!

One area where I will concede ground on this is that, depending on where and how one is raised, it's not unusual for some Dom/mes to have real issues in dominating another, especially administering pain etc. The area where one's inner D/s needs clash with the socially engineered values of an egalitarian vanilla society. If one is reluctant or hesitant to unleash the sadist or control-freak from within on a *willing* submissive, then maybe a little subbing first isn't such a bad thing for them. But I personally don't have such issues....

Frankly, if one comes "hard-wired" as a dominant, I don't even believe it possible to experience "a keener knowledge of the intrinsic psychology within submission". Where she finds contentment and even sub-space, I'd feel a volcanic level of rage building. Apologies for being crass, but hands up those who wouldn't truly be sure if dog shit tasted good or bad to them unless they've had a taste!

I'm a Dominant...! Occasional mistakes do happen during play but it's never ok for my girl to get hurt - ever! When she does, it's *MY* fault, not hers, and I'm wired to accept such a responsibility and the caring perfectionist in me will do his utmost not to screw up in future. If that's not good enough for a prospective sub of mine, we're wasting each other's time....

Focus.


(in reply to amayos)
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RE: Training for Dominants? - 3/14/2006 6:42:18 AM   
Padriag


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tx061

Hi!

I am new to this lifestyle and wish to be a Dom. Does one become a submissive first to learn what it is about?

The short answer... no, it isn't necessary.

Some consider it a step in becoming a dominant and I've often heard the idea originated with the Old Guard (Leathermen) way of doing things. The concept was that by learning to be a submissive first, as a dominant you would have a better understanding of submissives. While the idea has some merit, I find it at best only gives a dominant a vague understanding of things and that same knowledge can be acquired in other ways. In other words... Bottoming for awhile is about like trying to understand a fish by swimming in the ocean for awhile. You might learn some things, but you'll never really be a fish and never really know. What you can learn could also be learned in other ways.

I do very much recommend you talk to submissives and learn from them. In particular you might want to seek out an experienced submissive who has some of the traits you find desireable and get to know that person as a friend. Talk to them, ask questions and listen a great deal, they can give you insights that are invaluable.

Talk to other dominants as well. Particularly those who are experienced and especially those who's style and goals match your own. Learn about their successes and their failures, when they talk about their mistakes try to understand those mistakes, there are important lessons to be learned from them. When you seem them do something you wish to do, but can't, its probably because you don't know how... ask and listen.

While I don't think you need to try bottoming, I think you do need to experiment on yourself a little. For example, before buying a flogger, give the inside of your forearm a good thwack with it. Why? Because it gives you an intimate knowledge of what it feels like (and differen't floggers feel differently) and that can be a useful thing to know when you are trying to achieve a particular effect with a submissive. Try kneeling in one position for an hour, it'll give you an education about cramps in you calves, ankles and toes, stiffness in your knees, etc. That can be useful to know and understand either for punishing a sub later, or for keeping in mind the effects of what you are doing (for example suppose you have a sub kneel for an hour, then follow that up with an activity that requires them run around... how will that affect them... do you know?). Understanding those effects potentially gives you another degree of control, another "tool" in your bag of tricks.

Read a lot. There good books within the lifestyle on a variety of subjects. I've posted a reading list a number of times in these forums. But also read things outside of lifestyle publications, books on basic behavior psychology, relationship counseling, self improvement, and leadership can all be helpful. I've even found a book on basic zen meditation to be useful to me in my style of doing things.

Set some high standards of ethics for yourself and hold yourself to them. Gaining a reptutation for integrity is worth your weight in gold.

Do some serious self examination. Start keeping a private journal. Ask yourself some tough questions about why you want to be a dom, what appeals to you about it, what you want out of it, what you expect, etc. It helps make you self aware and that's a first step in self mastery. You'll discover areas in yourself you need to work on, and you'll also come away with a better grasp of exactly what it is you want (and also what you don't want).

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to tx061)
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RE: Training for Dominants? - 3/14/2006 11:53:52 AM   
amayos


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A perfectly understandable point of view. I can in fact relate. One way is just as well as the other; there is no right answer here I feel, so long as the paths converge ultimately upon the same desired outcome: the reality of dominance or submission.

As for me, I was drawn to submission in my youth. My desires in this vein were quite natural and moving, and the experiences I had—both physical and more notably, psychological—provided further realization and understanding of selfless worship, even if the reality of what I experienced in submission could not match what is quite possibly an unattainable ideal in my mind. I suppose I say this to underscore how my submission was not ever taken lightly, that I have set foot upon and been raked across those landscapes, if you will.

Even though today I am quite fixed in my dominant nature, the notion of contrasting or equating the idea of experiencing submission though any means of analogous comparison or association to the taste of dog shit seems rather extreme, and yes, crass. I do not have to love a slave, but I do understand her and give honor to what she is.

I personally enjoy that I know what it feels like to shiver under an edge or the blind anticipation of the next strike; that I have known well the atlantean depths of a submissive heart and spirit—it allows me certain abilities of perception, accuracy and empathy in my dominance, I feel.





< Message edited by amayos -- 3/14/2006 12:05:49 PM >

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RE: Training for Dominants? - 3/14/2006 9:36:49 PM   
classykindasassy


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You might give thought to the nature of your interest.

There are a lot of reasons people want to learn about being a dom. What kind of Dom you want to be for yourself? What kind of a dom do you want to be for submissives? What kind of a submissive do you want? You might not have any answers to that yet. But it would be a place to start looking at how you should train to achive your goals. And over time, as you deepen and develop, your goals and training methods may change.

If you are interested in the spiritual, then I like what IronBear said - because his training begins in the spirit. Your gut would have to guide you to learning that way because I don't know too many hetero doms who would go that route. But it creates depth and wisdom in a person to learn that way. You think differently inside , and that trains what you do out there.

I will share with you a comment made by a presenter (Master Skip Chasey) at the South Plains Leatherfest: "You will only be as good a Master as you are submitted in your spiritual life". He did not say you have to sub first to another human, but if you know what submission to God or your spirituality is, then you can learn the lessons of being a good dom by letting your life, your heart, and your interactions with your subs teach you your self expression, and what works, and what doesn't.

If you don't care about the spiritual, then there are classes about domination, books, and experienced sub/switches who can show you some things.

You can watch other people do their thing and learn what turns you on, and then carefully try it.

Just know that learning how to hit people, and tie them up, and mess with their minds, can cause damage, and should not be taken lightly. Always be aware of the possibility of injury, physical, mental, and emotional, and learn how to negotiate a scene as a novice. Public play is good at first, for safety's sake. Always make sure you can quickly undo your bondage in case of emergency. And learn what aftercare is for. If you don't like doing it, I'd enlist someone who is good with it to be your aide.



< Message edited by classykindasassy -- 3/14/2006 9:44:15 PM >


_____________________________

"The less I seek my source for some definitive, the closer I am to fine." -The Indigo Girls

(in reply to amayos)
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RE: Training for Dominants? - 3/15/2006 7:59:55 AM   
ownedgirlie


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Amayos: Thank you for sharing this part of your history. my Master has never expressed/examined/considered a submissive side within, so your post gives new insight to consider and learn from. Where he has spent years exploring the submissive mind and grasping as much understanding of it as possible, you have gained understanding by experience - and from what it sounds like, a mental/emotional experience and perspective as opposed to just knowing what a strike feels like. It was an interesting post to ponder.

(in reply to amayos)
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RE: Training for Dominants? - 3/15/2006 4:29:05 PM   
amayos


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From: New England
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Thanks, girlie.

I certainly don't believe you have to experience the submissive heart to be dominant, though I feel it does allow one to understand submission far more.

Understanding is never subtractive to the human soul.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
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