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RE: Climategate - 11/30/2009 10:38:42 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

No idea if it was voted on or not, to be honest. The main thing that I remember (as an evil lefty) is that Bush made a big deal of stating that he didn't care if the prior management had signed it, he was going to ignore it.



Moon, even Ted Kennedy and John "French" Kerry voted against it.
And, no president is bound by what a previous president "said." They wouldn't be able to do the job if they were!

Actually, doesn't that mean that we could have stopped repaying the Marshall Plan loans the second Roosevelt was out of office?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 221
RE: Climategate - 11/30/2009 10:50:32 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

No idea if it was voted on or not, to be honest. The main thing that I remember (as an evil lefty) is that Bush made a big deal of stating that he didn't care if the prior management had signed it, he was going to ignore it.



Moon, even Ted Kennedy and John "French" Kerry voted against it.
And, no president is bound by what a previous president "said." They wouldn't be able to do the job if they were!

Actually, doesn't that mean that we could have stopped repaying the Marshall Plan loans the second Roosevelt was out of office?



Ah,.....no Moon, that's not what it means?
You mean we never paid back those Marshall Plan loans?

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 222
RE: Climategate - 11/30/2009 11:33:02 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

No idea if it was voted on or not, to be honest. The main thing that I remember (as an evil lefty) is that Bush made a big deal of stating that he didn't care if the prior management had signed it, he was going to ignore it.



Moon, even Ted Kennedy and John "French" Kerry voted against it.
And, no president is bound by what a previous president "said." They wouldn't be able to do the job if they were!

Actually, doesn't that mean that we could have stopped repaying the Marshall Plan loans the second Roosevelt was out of office?



Ah,.....no Moon, that's not what it means?
You mean we never paid back those Marshall Plan loans?

No, I mean that the UK only finally finished paying them off about five years back. If international agreements with an American President become void the second he leaves office, then presumably we could have stopped paying off the war loans as soon as Roosevelt finished his term.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 223
RE: Climategate - 11/30/2009 12:00:17 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		LOL, Moon, it doesn't work that way.
We have signed contracts for that kind of thing.
A president can't just say; "Hey, here's a billion dollars, pay us back when you can."
What do you want to do, put all the lawyers in Washington out of business?

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 224
RE: Climategate - 11/30/2009 12:01:16 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		You mean that you don't want to put all of the lawyers in Washington out of business?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 225
RE: Climategate - 11/30/2009 2:00:12 PM   
InvisibleBlack


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Joined: 7/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
If international agreements with an American President become void the second he leaves office, then presumably we could have stopped paying off the war loans as soon as Roosevelt finished his term.


Technically, international agreements aren't made with the President. Any treaty must be ratified by a two-thirds majority of the U. S. Senate to be binding. The Leagueof Nations and the Treaty of Versailles which ended World War One were both supported by and agreed to by Woodrow Wilson and both were repudiated by the U. S. Senate. The United States signed a seperate peace treaty with Germany and never joined the League of Nations.

No President's "word" on something is legally binding, and certainly shouldn't be relied upon through a change of administration.

_____________________________

Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that, I'll be over here, looking through your stuff.

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Profile   Post #: 226
RE: Climategate - 11/30/2009 2:24:40 PM   
InvisibleBlack


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Joined: 7/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
Science is about the ability to review the data, the replication of results, and checks against such normal human attempts to "personally invest" in a belief or hypothesis.



Michael Crichton gave a great speech on just this subject in 2005.

You can watch it here:

http://www.michaelcrichton.net/video-speeches-aei.html

Or read the transcript here:

http://www.michaelcrichton.net/speech-sciencepolicy.html

"...more troubling, to me, is the degree to which the political process seems to have captured and often corrupted the integrity of the scientific research that is used to formulate policy, and inform policy decisions."
 
- Michael Crichton
 

 
 





_____________________________

Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that, I'll be over here, looking through your stuff.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 227
RE: Climategate - 11/30/2009 2:29:03 PM   
Moonhead


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Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
If international agreements with an American President become void the second he leaves office, then presumably we could have stopped paying off the war loans as soon as Roosevelt finished his term.


Technically, international agreements aren't made with the President. Any treaty must be ratified by a two-thirds majority of the U. S. Senate to be binding. The Leagueof Nations and the Treaty of Versailles which ended World War One were both supported by and agreed to by Woodrow Wilson and both were repudiated by the U. S. Senate. The United States signed a seperate peace treaty with Germany and never joined the League of Nations.

No President's "word" on something is legally binding, and certainly shouldn't be relied upon through a change of administration.

So the Marshall Plan would have been set up and negotiated by the senate rather than whoever was in the white house at the time. Thank you, I didn't know that.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to InvisibleBlack)
Profile   Post #: 228
RE: Climategate - 11/30/2009 2:51:39 PM   
InvisibleBlack


Posts: 865
Joined: 7/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

So the Marshall Plan would have been set up and negotiated by the senate rather than whoever was in the white house at the time. Thank you, I didn't know that.


Congress passed the Foreign Assistance Act of 1948 and President Truman signed it into law on April 3rd. Looking at it, while treaties must be approved by the Senate, spending bills must originate in the House.

Aid Bill is Signed by Truman as Reply to Foes of Liberty

< Message edited by InvisibleBlack -- 11/30/2009 2:55:43 PM >

_____________________________

Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that, I'll be over here, looking through your stuff.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 229
RE: Climategate - 11/30/2009 2:59:04 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Thank you.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to InvisibleBlack)
Profile   Post #: 230
RE: Climategate - 11/30/2009 6:20:02 PM   
TheHeretic


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Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

It's called a "lead," RML.  Wikipedia should be sufficient (try looking under "journalism). 


Just FYI, if you're gonna send him looking--the correct term is "lede."



"Lede" is obsolete, and basically just an acceptable spelling affectation.  I'm sure there are some institutions and individuals that have completely embraced it, just for snob appeal. 

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 231
RE: Climategate - 11/30/2009 6:51:03 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Hardly an affectation. Tradition would be more accurate. A "lead" was a blank space inserted between lines. The distinction of "lede" was necessary, and still is used by many in editing and publishing.

Practical and creatures of habit, perhaps. But clear and an important distinction.

I still see -30- at the end of press releases. Definitely outdated--but everyone knows what it means, and I doubt anyone thinks "What a snob.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 232
RE: Climategate - 11/30/2009 8:24:29 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline 		Yes, but the real question is why is there no more Lederkranz. [sic]

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Profile   Post #: 233
RE: Climategate - 11/30/2009 8:25:37 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		No, they think "what a lazy bastard." 

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 234
RE: Climategate - 12/1/2009 4:40:11 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline 		FR:

One down.  Temporarily, at least ...

Climate scientist at center of e-mail controversy to step down
By Juliet Eilperin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, December 1, 2009; 3:45 PM

A scientist who is one of the central figures in the controversy over hacked e-mails from the University of East Anglia's Climate Research Unit announced Tuesday that he is stepping down while the university investigates the incident.

...

Phil Jones, director of the university's Climatic Research Unit [has stepped down].

...

East Anglia's Vice-Chancellor Professor Edward Acton said he had "accepted Professor Jones's offer to stand aside during this period. It is an important step to ensure that CRU can continue to operate normally and the independent review can conduct its work into the allegations."

Action added the university will disclose details of the probe, including who will head it and how long it will last "within days."


Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

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Profile   Post #: 235
RE: Climategate - 12/2/2009 10:21:59 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

You mean that you don't want to put all of the lawyers in Washington out of business?



Moon, I do.
But, how can you expect President Obama to abide by something that, Herbert Hoover "said" or Bill Clinton "said" in a speech?
Or a future president to abide by something President Obama "said" during his presidency?
Would anyone want President Obama to go along with what George Bush "said" a few years ago?
Just because a president "says" something doesn't make it law.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 236
RE: Climategate - 12/2/2009 1:15:06 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
If international agreements with an American President become void the second he leaves office, then presumably we could have stopped paying off the war loans as soon as Roosevelt finished his term.


Technically, international agreements aren't made with the President. Any treaty must be ratified by a two-thirds majority of the U. S. Senate to be binding. The Leagueof Nations and the Treaty of Versailles which ended World War One were both supported by and agreed to by Woodrow Wilson and both were repudiated by the U. S. Senate. The United States signed a seperate peace treaty with Germany and never joined the League of Nations.

No President's "word" on something is legally binding, and certainly shouldn't be relied upon through a change of administration.



(The President) shall have power, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to make treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur...
US Constitution, Art II, § 2, cl 2

Technically, it appears the President has the power to make treaties ... with a very big proviso, however. Is "ratified" the proper term here? Yeh, I guess so. Nit picky, I know, but seems international agreements are made with the Pres.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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Profile   Post #: 237
RE: Climategate - 12/2/2009 10:59:22 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		Jon Stewart On ClimateGate (VIDEO)

On the Daily Show Tuesday night, Jon Stewart dug into ClimateGate -- a series of leaked emails between climate scientists which global warming skeptics have latched onto to prove climate change doesn't exist. "Poor Al Gore," Stewart proclaimed, "global warming completely debunked via the very internet you invented."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/02/jon-stewart-on-climategat_n_376672.html

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 238
RE: Climategate - 12/2/2009 11:15:30 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		ClimateGate: The 7 Biggest Lies About The Supposed "Global Warming Hoax"

A few weeks ago, hackers broke into the emails of one of the Climate Research Unit of The University of East Anglia, and climate skeptics have been having a field day making mountains out of molehills about what the emails contain. The verdict on global warming is in -- it's caused by humans and it is happening and nothing in the emails remotely challenges that. However, with the internet abuzz about what has been labeled "ClimateGate," we thought we should set the record straight about the rumors, lies and insinuations about what the emails actually contain -- and what they "prove" about climate change. "ClimateGate" itself is a misnomer, the nickname should be "SwiftHack" for the way people with political agendas have "swiftboated" the global warming reality. As world attention turns to the climate conference in Copenhagen this December, this email hack acts as a distraction from the huge task at hand of getting world leaders to commit to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. As professor Richard Somerville says, "We're facing an effort by special interests who are trying to confuse the public."

Check out our slideshow and pick what you think the most dangerous lie that is being spread by skeptics about the emails.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/02/climategate-the-7-biggest_n_371223.html

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 239
RE: Climategate - 12/3/2009 5:50:45 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

You mean that you don't want to put all of the lawyers in Washington out of business?



Moon, I do.
But, how can you expect President Obama to abide by something that, Herbert Hoover "said" or Bill Clinton "said" in a speech?
Or a future president to abide by something President Obama "said" during his presidency?
Would anyone want President Obama to go along with what George Bush "said" a few years ago?
Just because a president "says" something doesn't make it law.

What Vincent said. If the bugger can't sign treaties that'll be honoured beyond his term, there's no point having him there in the first place.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 240
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