RE: Why be offensive?

RE: Why be offensive? (Full Version)

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DelightMachine -> RE: Why be offensive? (3/14/2006 11:33:54 PM)
quote: The Civil War was about states' rights - not slavery. Yes, slavery was involved, but it was not the sole issue behind that war. I completely agree with LordandMaster on this one. Slavery was more than 90 percent of the issue behind the war. Yes, a lot has been written to deny it, but slavery was the cause above all others. And no, we won't settle that debate here.

DelightMachine -> RE: Why be offensive? (3/14/2006 11:42:47 PM)
quote: I've learned that they see it essentially as an expression of their manliness and unwillingness to be cowed by authority. I cannot respect anyone who would use the flag of the Slave State to express his manliness or autonomy. I also think many people who display the Stars and Bars really are racists. Not all (perhaps). But many. (After all, it's not just in the South that you see it. Go to Carlisle, Pennsylvania--the heart of Union territory--and you'll see it everywhere. What can the Stars and Bars possibly mean to someone from Carlisle, Pennsylvania?) Almost all of what you say here sounds reasonable to me, although I'd say a lot more of the flag wavers are insensitive rather than out and out racists. But in Carlisle it sure isn't a Southern culture thing. A symbol of being a rebel in other ways? That sounds right. And I'd call using that symbol for that reason pretty damn stupid.

Level -> RE: Why be offensive? (3/15/2006 2:20:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: yourMissTress I moved here to TN about 9 months ago. The love of my life lives here, as well as his son, so we are tied to the south for at least another 12 years. I was and still am shocked by the number of confederate flags I see EVERYWHERE. Not just on bumper stickers. And, if you drive about 15 miles from my house, you will see in someone's front yard a memorial, yep I said memorial and mean a huge freaking STATUE glorifying and memorializing the founder of the KKK. And at night it's lit up. Now, all that being said, I'm a yankee, from a small town in Wisconsin. Which happens to be the hometown and final resting place of Senator Joseph McCarthy. Nothing at all that I'm proud of, just a fact. And there are people in that town that have put an exhibit dedicated to him in the county museum. I hope that no one assumes that because there are memorials to him in my home town that I share the feelings of those who chose to erect such. So, should the very public displays of stupidity by a few reflect on all? No. But there is always some truth in a stereotype. Good point, Tress. Idiots can be found anywhere lol. I've lived here my entire life, and things are a little better, but there are plenty of otherwise intelligent and decent people who think nothing of saying the "n" word. Makes me sad. We live about 5 minutes away from Vidor, where the Klan once (still??) held sway, and a few miles to the north is Jasper, where those 3 fucktards drug a black man to death behind their truck a couple of years ago. It's going to take a couple of generations for much of this to go away. And Moloch.........no, not everyone that has a condederate flag is a bigot, but a big goddam percentage of them are. Level

Level -> RE: Why be offensive? (3/15/2006 2:28:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelic i disagree, Sir... do not mistake what i am saying... i am very proud that i am who i am... If You look about Yourself, You are surrounded by Many that OWN slaves here... Many of Them i personally have a great deal of respect for, They are Wise and Kind... however, they OWN Their slaves... as they are that... slaves... To seek a slave in the here and now but then turn around and blame a part of our history on that which You currently seek... is imho hypocrasy. just my opinion, Sir! angelic, there is so much difference between the two.............slavery a couple of hundred years ago was not consentual, and if you tried to leave a bad situation, the master could maim you or kill you........"slavery" now is not real in that sense, and I don't care how much some say otherwise. You can always leave and the law will back you. Level

Level -> RE: Why be offensive? (3/15/2006 2:35:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster To answer your question: if I were Southern and felt I had to express my pride in the South (and for some reason Southerners tend to feel that need more than Yankees do), I'm not sure what emblem I'd use, but it would probably be something like a peanut. Peanuts revolutionized the world's agricultural systems. A peanut........while true about it's fine history, I can only imagine waving a banner with a peanut on it would have some looking at it and thinking "why is he waving a flag with a turd on it?"......lol, it just wouldn't look good. But no, I would not have a stars and bars in my home or on my property........ Level

JohnWarren -> RE: Why be offensive? (3/15/2006 5:03:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or Yup, Florida, Arizona, even Utah and in some cases Alaska. All are places to store the old, it all depends on where the kids live and how well they were raised. Boils down to this ; better treat your kids good. T Or not have kids.... that's why we can retire in comfort

Lordandmaster -> RE: Why be offensive? (3/15/2006 1:12:50 PM)
In Carlisle I take it as a fairly straightforward sign meaning "We like whites and don't like blacks." I don't think they'd word it quite so delicately, either. Central Pennsylvania is one of the most racist fucking areas in the whole US of A. Edited to add: Of course, I'm generalizing... quote: ORIGINAL: DelightMachine But in Carlisle it sure isn't a Southern culture thing. A symbol of being a rebel in other ways? That sounds right. And I'd call using that symbol for that reason pretty damn stupid.

Moloch -> RE: Why be offensive? (3/15/2006 1:58:08 PM)
Yeah we central PA is racist as hell, here in Buffalo we call it Pensiltucky.

Termyn8or -> RE: Why be offensive? (3/15/2006 5:31:36 PM)
"I completely agree with LordandMaster on this one. Slavery was more than 90 percent of the issue behind the war. Yes, a lot has been written to deny it, but slavery was the cause above all others. And no, we won't settle that debate here. " _____________________________ What is your evidence ? My evidence is government documents in the Library of Congress. If you have something that can top that I would like to know. Really. Perhaps L&M was there, or your teacher or preacher. If so you are pretty old. Years ago when old people weren't all drugged up we learned from them. The old know the truth, how it used to be, how some things ought to be. Not the bigotry, but alot of other things, the willingness to work hard, and the eagerness to learn. My Grandfather had a hand in that for me. In any court if you are a proven liar, your testimony is regarded in toto as not valid. Not completely invalid, but not taken as sworn to. I can prove thousands of lies. In that light can you really say that I am the one who is misinformed rather than you. For sure ? Really ? I would really like to know this great source, who WASN'T THERE tell me how they know I am wrong. I challenge you all to do it, in fact I would welcome it. Then I can ignore world affairs and concentrate on my own pleasure. Please PROVE me wrong. T

Lordandmaster -> RE: Why be offensive? (3/15/2006 7:22:27 PM)
I'm not going to get into your other comments and assertions, but this one is totally incorrect--and by your own principle, I think this fairly negates just about everything else you're saying, too. quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or In any court if you are a proven liar, your testimony is regarded in toto as not valid. Not completely invalid, but not taken as sworn to.

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