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Toxic/Corrosive Chinese Drywall---who is to blame/who p... - 11/24/2009 5:00:08 AM   
MzMia


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I am sure many have heard about the "possibility" of some of the imported chinese
drywall from 2005-2007 being toxic.
 
A preliminary report is showing 51 homes that were tested, are showing high levels of hyrogen sulfide and formaldehyde.
This study shows a high probability of health risks, associated with that drywall that was imported between 2005 and 2007.
That is an awful lot of drywall!

There is also a link between damage to that drywall, high temperature and the corrosion being linked to increasing health risks.

Who is going to pay to remove and replace this drywall?
Who will pay for the possible health risks?

 
Maybe the powers that be, might consider manufacturing more drywall here in America, and having it closely regulated.
  Just another one of my crazy thoughts.
Preliminary reports link Chinese drywall, corrosion in U.S. homes - CNN.com

< Message edited by MzMia -- 11/24/2009 5:06:06 AM >


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RE: Toxic/Corrosive Chinese Drywall---who is to blame/w... - 11/24/2009 5:37:19 AM   
LadyEllen


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I do hope the affected homes are not those foreclosed on such that the problem has been passed to the financiers who repossessed them. It should be utterly unacceptable if these poor souls had to pay to sort out the issues, after all they only insisted on a survey to determine inflated value, not to identify any issues, before releasing (income x whatever) funding for their purchase. It simply wouldnt be fair, and the cost may prejudice the entire financial system......

E

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RE: Toxic/Corrosive Chinese Drywall---who is to blame/w... - 11/24/2009 7:25:13 AM   
chiaThePet


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It's 2009.

It's Bush's fault.

The twins should have to prostitute themselves to reimburse the downtrodden.

chia* (the pet)


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You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

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RE: Toxic/Corrosive Chinese Drywall---who is to blame/w... - 11/24/2009 7:44:15 AM   
Termyn8or


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Nice dose of sarcasm for the morning :-)

There is a need for some form of tort law in a case like this. Right now the best option is probably to go after the importer. After all they sold the product. Wasn't Mattel responsible for the lead based paint in imported toys ?

Another thing that gets me is that drywall used to be about $6 a sheet. Go price it now. I thought we were supposed to save money using cheap foreign labor. If so either we got cheated somehow or someone is making some pretty fat profits off of this. I tend to believe both are true.

In the early part of the 2000s they could produce the drywall here and sell it for about $6 a sheet or so. Now it is imported and costs about twice as much. It would be unreasonable that someone would import something at a higher net price than it would cost to produce here, so the only reasonable assumption is that someone made alot of money.

So the old adage about following the money should still hold. But we may be limited to only following the dollars. Trying to sue the actual manufacturer is surely a ball buster. It can and has been done though, they took a bite out of Microsoft a while back IIRC. I would be happy cleaning out the wallets of the traitors who started this mess here. I mean we are talking drywall, not cheap stereos. Drywall is heavy, easy to damage in transport and doesn't lend itself well to shipping long distances. There is no reason to import it. What's next, bricks, mortar and cement ? Bricks and cinderblocks are a bit lighter than drywall.

T

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RE: Toxic/Corrosive Chinese Drywall---who is to blame/w... - 11/24/2009 8:34:01 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

In the early part of the 2000s they could produce the drywall here and sell it for about $6 a sheet or so. Now it is imported and costs about twice as much.


US companies can't afford to produce it here. Not because of the cost of the product, but because of the environmental impact and consequence of producing it here. Manufacturing drywall produces 17% waste. The introduction in March 2005 of the Clean Air Interstate Rule by the United States Environmental Protection Agency requires power plants to "cut sulfur dioxide emissions by 73%" by 2018.[8] The Clean Air Interstate Rule also requested that the power plants install new scrubbers (industrial pollution control devices) to remove sulfur dioxide present in the output waste gas.

As a result the manufacturing left the country, the need didn't. You went from a highly regulated, job producing, US product and as a result of environmental special interests, sent the production as well as the oversight, offshore. However, the US consumer still needed the product. This is the result. Is isn't unique.

Good, bad, or indifferent, this is the consequence.

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RE: Toxic/Corrosive Chinese Drywall---who is to blame/w... - 11/24/2009 8:49:08 AM   
mnottertail


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I am not sure I follow this, Merc....alot of drywall is made from the scrubbings of flue gases. (calcium sulfate) It is a reasonable form of sequestering.

Course, I dunno, never was a drywall maker. Used alot of the shit in my day though.

Ron



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RE: Toxic/Corrosive Chinese Drywall---who is to blame/w... - 11/24/2009 8:57:26 AM   
Mercnbeth


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The waste is generated in production and cutting. It is a land fill problem as I understand it. I remember selling it working for a lumber store as a college summer job for $2/sheet.

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RE: Toxic/Corrosive Chinese Drywall---who is to blame/w... - 11/24/2009 9:57:39 AM   
AnimusRex


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
Maybe the powers that be, might consider manufacturing more drywall here in America, and having it closely regulated.
  Just another one of my crazy thoughts.


As Ricky Ricardo would say, "What are you crazy sompin?"

You see, the invisible hand of the marketplace will solve this, as it solves all of lifes' problems. Let me break it down for you:

Once the houses that have the contaminated drywall fall in price, they will be foreclosed upon;
The banks will process these toxic assets by demolishing them, writing down the losses, prompting a contraction of lending, widespread layoffs, and a few quarters of negative growth;
Thousands of families will be bankrupted, jobs will be lost; the adverse societal effects of broken families, divorces, and school dropouts will ripple through the nation;
All imports from China will be suspect; there will arise a cottage industry of private market inspectors and quality assurance firms, but since not all builders will use them, the level of risk within the building industry will add a few basis points to every construction loan, and be reflected in higher prices for houses, apartments, and offices.

Eventually society will accept that all products are at risk of toxic materials and this risk will be borne by the consumer;
The occasional explosion, where a batch of toxic materials turns up in our food, clothing, or consumer products; the occasional bout of poisonings from melamine in milk or lead in paint will be seen as just one of those things that cannot be avoided.
Consumers will react to this higher level of risk by being defensive- purchasing less, maintaining a higher level of savings to cover unexpected adverse results, depressing consumption, leading to lower economic growth permanently.

You see? Problem solved.

"The invisible hand is perfect; there is nothing I shall want." Repeat as often as necessary.

(in reply to MzMia)
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RE: Toxic/Corrosive Chinese Drywall---who is to blame/w... - 11/24/2009 10:42:09 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex


quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
Maybe the powers that be, might consider manufacturing more drywall here in America, and having it closely regulated.
  Just another one of my crazy thoughts.


As Ricky Ricardo would say, "What are you crazy sompin?"

You see, the invisible hand of the marketplace will solve this, as it solves all of lifes' problems. Let me break it down for you:

Once the houses that have the contaminated drywall fall in price, they will be foreclosed upon;
The banks will process these toxic assets by demolishing them, writing down the losses, prompting a contraction of lending, widespread layoffs, and a few quarters of negative growth;
Thousands of families will be bankrupted, jobs will be lost; the adverse societal effects of broken families, divorces, and school dropouts will ripple through the nation;
All imports from China will be suspect; there will arise a cottage industry of private market inspectors and quality assurance firms, but since not all builders will use them, the level of risk within the building industry will add a few basis points to every construction loan, and be reflected in higher prices for houses, apartments, and offices.

Eventually society will accept that all products are at risk of toxic materials and this risk will be borne by the consumer;
The occasional explosion, where a batch of toxic materials turns up in our food, clothing, or consumer products; the occasional bout of poisonings from melamine in milk or lead in paint will be seen as just one of those things that cannot be avoided.
Consumers will react to this higher level of risk by being defensive- purchasing less, maintaining a higher level of savings to cover unexpected adverse results, depressing consumption, leading to lower economic growth permanently.

You see? Problem solved.

"The invisible hand is perfect; there is nothing I shall want." Repeat as often as necessary.


The invisible hand doesnt show its face when there is government intervention.

(in reply to AnimusRex)
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RE: Toxic/Corrosive Chinese Drywall---who is to blame/w... - 11/24/2009 10:55:01 AM   
flcouple2009


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Apparently someone forgot to tell Georgia Pacific, National Gypsum Company, American Gypsum Company, United States Gypsum, etc.. that they no longer can produce drywall in the US. 

The building boom used everything that could be made which is why the Chinese drywall started hitting the market.  Here in Florida at one point it was almost impossible to get drywall.  It was sold out as soon as it hit the floor.  That's the reason why we have so much of the Chinese stuff here, it filled the hole.

You can still find plenty of American made drywall.  I don't know where you people are shopping but I can walk in and get it for anywhere between $6 to $8 a board.

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RE: Toxic/Corrosive Chinese Drywall---who is to blame/w... - 11/24/2009 11:03:34 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

Apparently someone forgot to tell Georgia Pacific, National Gypsum Company, American Gypsum Company, United States Gypsum, etc.. that they no longer can produce drywall in the US.
Who represented that as fact?

The fact that it is cheaper to manufacture, ship, and sell in the US due to regulations created the imports and this situation. Theres isn't one product imported that can't, and in most instances, isn't being made in the US. However, regulations, taxation, make is more practical to manufacture, or assemble it somewhere else. Most of the time employment compensation isn't the major factor, but getting rid of the manufacturing by-products or waste makes it prohibitively costly to do so in most of the US.

The point isn't that the companies you site aren't manufacturing dry wall. The point and focus should be why aren't they manufacturing enough of it? Why can't they produce it at a cost that makes manufacture and import from China impractical in the first place?

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RE: Toxic/Corrosive Chinese Drywall---who is to blame/w... - 11/24/2009 11:17:28 AM   
popeye1250


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Boy! All this "FREE TRADE" just keeps getting better and better and better doesn't it?
Why do we "Need" to trade with China anyway? Can't Mattel produce toys with lead paint on them in the U.S.?

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RE: Toxic/Corrosive Chinese Drywall---who is to blame/w... - 11/24/2009 11:26:49 AM   
flcouple2009


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quote:


The point isn't that the companies you site aren't manufacturing dry wall. The point and focus should be why aren't they manufacturing enough of it? Why can't they produce it at a cost that makes manufacture and import from China impractical in the first place?


There were a lot of shortages of products during the building boom.  Your whole point is off base.  There simply was not enough drywall to go around.  Drywall got up to $12 or more a sheet during that time.  Not because of the cost to make it but because like any other product that is in short supply and high demand it becomes valuable.  When the Chinese product filled the hole the prices overall came back down. 

If you are supplying drywall for 1000 units a week and you now have orders for 5000 units a week what do you do?  You ramp up your production as much as you can, then what?  You build another facility?  Then what happens when/if demand goes back to where it was?  Either way building a new facility doesn't happen over night.  The Chinese filled the hole.  In this case it really was that simple.

That's why you see some builders who have clusters of homes built with the stuff.  They bought containers of it.  Not because it was cheaper nor because they wanted it.  It was what they could get at the time.   There were plenty of days people were waiting as the truck arrived and by the time it was unloaded all of the drywall on it was already sold. 

It's not an issue anymore.  With all of the empty buildings sitting around there wont be any building booms for a long time.  

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RE: Toxic/Corrosive Chinese Drywall---who is to blame/w... - 11/24/2009 12:01:58 PM   
popeye1250


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Anyone who buys something that says "Made In China" on it is just asking for it.
Would you want clothes next to your skin that say "Made in China" on them? There could be rat hairs in them for all you know.

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RE: Toxic/Corrosive Chinese Drywall---who is to blame/w... - 11/24/2009 12:17:15 PM   
Anarrus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Anyone who buys something that says "Made In China" on it is just asking for it.
Would you want clothes next to your skin that say "Made in China" on them? There could be rat hairs in them for all you know.


Damn right!! Personally, I prefer the Malaysian, Phillipinian or Mexican rat hair in my clothes.

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RE: Toxic/Corrosive Chinese Drywall---who is to blame/w... - 11/24/2009 12:34:38 PM   
rockspider


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Well we buy chinese and complain we loose jobs
Our legislators makes rules which ensures the enviroment. Well the chinese don't give a fuck about the enviroment so they make the stuff
Maybe we should outsource the public administration and the political work so that lot could get on the dole

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RE: Toxic/Corrosive Chinese Drywall---who is to blame/w... - 11/24/2009 12:49:41 PM   
rockspider


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By the way. How big is a sheet of drywall? Ours is 8*4 feet and i can't get it for double the prices you mention.

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RE: Toxic/Corrosive Chinese Drywall---who is to blame/w... - 11/24/2009 1:19:23 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Manufacturing drywall produces 17% waste. The introduction in March 2005 of the Clean Air Interstate Rule by the United States Environmental Protection Agency requires power plants to "cut sulfur dioxide emissions by 73%" by 2018.[8] The Clean Air Interstate Rule also requested that the power plants install new scrubbers (industrial pollution control devices) to remove sulfur dioxide present in the output waste gas.




Merc if you read the link, the 17% waste comes from manufacturing and installation. I suspect the largest amount comes from installation. I also dont see why companies shouldnt be under an obligation to clean up the air. Large scale pollution isnt acceptable, if you had been in London before the sixties, there were days you couldnt see your hand outstretched before you, mostly due to factory chimneys and coal fires in houses. I remember it well, the link below is about London in 1952.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Smog_of_1952

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RE: Toxic/Corrosive Chinese Drywall---who is to blame/w... - 11/24/2009 1:19:54 PM   
flcouple2009


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I can't vouch for prices in Denmark, but where I am we were back down to just over $5 a sheet a while back

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RE: Toxic/Corrosive Chinese Drywall---who is to blame/w... - 11/24/2009 1:24:40 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Anyone who buys something that says "Made In China" on it is just asking for it.
Would you want clothes next to your skin that say "Made in China" on them? There could be rat hairs in them for all you know.


I doubt if it is possible that anyone has a home stocked with goods only made in their own country. Your suggestion means we should all stop buying stuff made in China, so what happens to the US export market if we all take that approach ?

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