RE: Is there a difference between being a submissive and a slave

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sweetsub1957 -> RE: Is there a difference between being a submissive and a slave (11/27/2009 9:44:53 PM)
~~Fast Reply~ I call myself submissive, because the word slave is scary to me, yet the One I am writing to says, "you call yourself sub, but present yourself more as a slave." Go figure.

AnimusRex -> RE: Is there a difference between being a submissive and a slave (11/27/2009 10:22:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: S2 may I ask, how is it unfortunate to discuss a topic in detail? What I meant, as sarjane refers, is that this topic has been discussed and argued about in extremely detailed and lengthy posts- particularly by goreans, in my memory. You can probably find a few of my own opinions in there. The threads usually go on and on, without ever a clear resolution. Mostly this is because with the wide variety of relationships going on, there is no way any one word like this can completely and concisely mark off a boundary that is acceptable to everyone involved. No matter what your definition, someone will pop up and indignantly declare that they are in fact a slave, and yet your definition does not fit them. Then it gets into a bitter personal battle, and one of the moderators needs to step in and knock heads. So if you have a particular view of what makes a submissive different than a slave, terrific. No one in here will prove you right or wrong. Serve well.

starshineowned -> RE: Is there a difference between being a submissive and a slave (11/28/2009 12:40:22 AM)
quote: To me it seems that a submissive has limits and will not do or tolerate certain things. But a slave will not have any limits and will tolerate anything. Is that true and can someone elaborate more on the differences between the two for me? -Queen Penelope quote: ORIGINAL: QueenPenelope Greetings.. No matter what the thoughts are now...I would feel comfortable in saying that a good majority of people to include those not even associated with bdsm would give you a fairly clear distinction in description for a submissive person versus a slave. I sort of think that those who embrace the word slave do so in efforts to remove as much free choice for the direction their lives take from that point forward. It makes them no less responsible for their lives in the face of the world and most understand this but it is a seeking to remove the control none the less. I don't think that as many persons who choose the submissive label ultimately seek that to happen in as much completeness or areas. In the end we are just seem to gravitate to what we feel completes us, and use the labels to help identify or convey those needs more clearly if possible but I'd not close the door on a person because of a label. Heck I even open the door to Jehovah's Witness's and Mormons if only to tell them not interested. My mom use to close the blinds and turn off the lights for a long time..then she became a JW..lol. starshine

DesFIP -> RE: Is there a difference between being a submissive and a slave (11/28/2009 8:12:57 AM)
I feel comfortable saying that most people outside the realm of wiitwd don't have any idea of what a bdsm slave is except for some bad movies, and the same number have no idea of what is meant by submissive. It wasn;t until I stumbled on a kink website that I even heard the word submissive used in the context we use it here.

justagirlinzh -> RE: Is there a difference between being a submissive and a slave (11/28/2009 8:23:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder For me yes there is a difference. A slave= you consent once. After that it's either do or leave. A sub=you consent each and every time. You have a choice in what happens to you. This is my opinion, too.

starshineowned -> RE: Is there a difference between being a submissive and a slave (11/28/2009 11:16:45 AM)
quote: I feel comfortable saying that most people outside the realm of wiitwd don't have any idea of what a bdsm slave is except for some bad movies, and the same number have no idea of what is meant by submissive. It wasn;t until I stumbled on a kink website that I even heard the word submissive used in the context we use it here. Your probably right..which is why I did not state a bdsm slave. I can't say as to what you or others idea of submissive is at this website but I can say I don't share that same view if it is used in any other context beside a persons personality trait. starshine

S2 -> RE: Is there a difference between being a submissive and a slave (11/28/2009 12:19:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP The difference that exists in threads that you point to are differences you already believe in. In effect you are preaching to the choir. There is no factual based hard and fast difference that could be used in a dictionary. And this is because a bdsm slave does not exist legally. Therefore it is a fictional difference. It doesn't matter how many people you gather to agree with you, it is opinion only. And as AR said so succinctly, these differences apply only to play sessions. Not to a full life. Him calling himself master of the universe, and me agreeing with him, doesn't mean he's going to be sworn in as CIC tomorrow. It doesn't mean I still am not going through medical tests because he can't announce that he forbids me to have cancer or a benign tumor. Real life, unlike play, is beyond our control. Two points: 1. I am not attempting to persuade anyone of the differences that I believe in, only that differences do exist. 2. Your wording seem to suggest that you are disregarding lifestylers who are sub/slave 24/7. There do exist those people who the authority of the Masters/doms does not disappear at the end of a play session, and subs/slaves who continues to serve and obey every moment of their lives. Perhaps there indeed is no difference, and only personal preference, if the words sub and slave are only used within well defined time periods, for pre-arranged purposes. However, that is not the case, the words sub and slave are being used freely in day to day conversations, and among people who are not participating in each other's play sessions. quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 And... dang, S2. What do you care what other people call themselves -- except to learn from them? Your comments are spilling over from description of your own dynamic, to a description of all dynamics. Reality doesn't tend to fit into overintellectualized boxes. I do not care what people choose to call themselves. What motivated me to respond to this thread was people who state that no difference exists between sub and slave, which I find misleading. Misleading information can cause much grieve for newcomers who are wishing to learn. What I have been trying to do is to point out examples where differences do exist, not to specify what the differences are. I am fully aware of the fact that each person will define for themselves what each word mean to them. On the other hand, it would be interesting to survey what people choose to call themselves and why. Afterall, if one wishes to use the words sub and slave in conversation, would it not be useful to know what each word mean to the other, as opposed to ourselves? or do we in using the words expect people to automatically be aware of how we personally defined the words? quote: ORIGINAL: AnimusRex What I meant, as sarjane refers, is that this topic has been discussed and argued about in extremely detailed and lengthy posts- particularly by goreans, in my memory. You can probably find a few of my own opinions in there. The threads usually go on and on, without ever a clear resolution. Mostly this is because with the wide variety of relationships going on, there is no way any one word like this can completely and concisely mark off a boundary that is acceptable to everyone involved. No matter what your definition, someone will pop up and indignantly declare that they are in fact a slave, and yet your definition does not fit them. Then it gets into a bitter personal battle, and one of the moderators needs to step in and knock heads. So if you have a particular view of what makes a submissive different than a slave, terrific. No one in here will prove you right or wrong. Serve well. Thank you for the explaination. And as I stated in my response to the other quote, I am not attempting to make people agree to what the differences are. I only wish for people to realise that differences do exist.

topleaseyou555 -> RE: Is there a difference between being a submissive and a slave (11/28/2009 1:21:07 PM)
i am what she wants me to be, i try to be there for her at all times, sometimes im her hero, sometimes her genius, and sometimes im a idiot, i try to be all things for her, she calls me her slave, it reminds me that in all things i do, the first thing that crosses my mind is her

RedMagic1 -> RE: Is there a difference between being a submissive and a slave (11/28/2009 1:22:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: S2 I do not care what people choose to call themselves. What motivated me to respond to this thread was people who state that no difference exists between sub and slave, which I find misleading. Misleading information can cause much grieve for newcomers who are wishing to learn. What possible grief could be done to someone if they realize they have to do the hard work of defining what the words "sub" and "slave" mean to them, instead of accepting some exterior definition that will be incomplete? Can you point to a single example in your experience of someone who had to go to the hospital or the psych ward because of lack of agreement with you about what those terms mean? More damage is done to people by encouraging them to blindly accept the definitions of another. And I can give you example after example of people who have been hurt by believing that. You don't have to take my word for it, though. Subs and slaves post here almost every week about how they allowed themselves to be damaged because they wanted to behave how they thought subs (or slaves) were supposed to act. Please give a practical, material example that backs up your position, or I will continue to think you are pseodointellectualizing.

S2 -> RE: Is there a difference between being a submissive and a slave (11/28/2009 1:42:15 PM)
Perhaps I need to rephrase: It is misleading to claim that two things are identical and interchangeable when they are in fact not so. I do not know anyone who was hospitalised or committed to a mental institutation due to the misuse of the words sub and slave. However, I would assume that in the least, it would be impolite to call someone a slave who insists on identifying as a sub, or vice versa. Further, those who chose to call themselves one or the other need to be aware that it will in most cases affect how they are preceived by others. One can claim that they don't see a difference, but they cannot force other people to not see a difference. I hope I have clarified my position somewhat.

DesFIP -> RE: Is there a difference between being a submissive and a slave (11/28/2009 1:49:40 PM)
You keep trying to force other people to accept your view as the one true one. That's a rudeness typical but not exclusive to the young. Stop being rude. I don't care if you see a difference in my 24/7 D/s relationship to someone else's 1/7 M/s relationship. It doesn't matter to me. But when it comes down to how it works in the real world, you calling yourself a slave doesn't mean you still don't get diagnosed with cancer because your master forbids you to have it. It is irrelevant. And although you may run around at every munch and dungeon you can find, showing off how twue you are or aren't, there are many more of us who simply have this as the way we feel best living and don't need to get dressed up in pink latex or whatever to feel like we're slavier than thou. We don't care what you think of us except when you interfere in our relationships by telling us that we aren't what we know ourselves to be.

S2 -> RE: Is there a difference between being a submissive and a slave (11/28/2009 2:17:58 PM)
I apologise if I somehow implied that you are not allowed to be what you choose to be. I only wish to say that the words "sub" and "slave" are not identical and interchangeable in their usage. I fully respect what you choose to call yourself, and what you identify as. However, I don't think it is right to tell people that they can choose their labels at random, without first having an understanding of what each word mean to others and to themselves.

Underumam -> RE: Is there a difference between being a submissive and a slave (11/28/2009 2:58:48 PM)
If the D and s stick it out long enough, the sub will eventually become a slave.

DesFIP -> RE: Is there a difference between being a submissive and a slave (11/28/2009 3:12:52 PM)
S2. When you tell everyone ad nauseum that your definition is the only real one, that their relationships are somehow lesser because they do not conform to your ideas, you are being objectionable. Since when did you get to be the grand high judge of BDSM who gets to pass judgment on everyone else? And umam, not necessarily. I'm 8 years in to this relationship and I'm still a collared sub.

lobodomslavery -> RE: Is there a difference between being a submissive and a slave (11/28/2009 3:15:50 PM)
One likes toast and the other likes marmalade. It is a scientific fact actually that slaves eat porridge while subs eat muesli. Honestly such a silly enquiry, I have nt the foggiest and frankly my dear, like the film actor, I could nt give a damn Kevin

Underumam -> RE: Is there a difference between being a submissive and a slave (11/28/2009 3:30:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP S2. When you tell everyone ad nauseum that your definition is the only real one, that their relationships are somehow lesser because they do not conform to your ideas, you are being objectionable. Since when did you get to be the grand high judge of BDSM who gets to pass judgment on everyone else? And umam, not necessarily. I'm 8 years in to this relationship and I'm still a collared sub. Maybe it hasn't happened yet, but you never know.........lol.

Acer49 -> RE: Is there a difference between being a submissive and a slave (11/28/2009 3:31:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: QueenPenelope To me it seems that a submissive has limits and will not do or tolerate certain things. But a slave will not have any limits and will tolerate anything. Is that true and can someone elaborate more on the differences between the two for me? -Queen Penelope This debate will go on until the end of time as there is no clear cut, totally accepted definition for either of these labels. However anyone that tells you they have no limits, they are a liar, a fool or both. everyone has limits, some maybe harder to find than others, but they are there. The debate of which one is better, the submissive or the slave will also go until time ends. Everyone has certain needs and the best thing to do is to find someone who best fills those needs, regardless of what they may call themselves.

S2 -> RE: Is there a difference between being a submissive and a slave (11/28/2009 3:32:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP S2. When you tell everyone ad nauseum that your definition is the only real one, that their relationships are somehow lesser because they do not conform to your ideas, you are being objectionable. Since when did you get to be the grand high judge of BDSM who gets to pass judgment on everyone else? And umam, not necessarily. I'm 8 years in to this relationship and I'm still a collared sub. I am not attempting to pass judgement, nor do I try to claim that my definition is the only real one. I also do not think that the relationships of others are lesser than my own. I apologize if my words gave you that impression. Please understand that I do not claim that slaves are better than subs, nor do I believe such to be true. I only wish to say that slaves and subs are not the same.

Drifa -> RE: Is there a difference between being a submissive and a slave (11/28/2009 5:45:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 What possible grief could be done to someone if they realize they have to do the hard work of defining what the words "sub" and "slave" mean to them... Actually, this sounds like a fabulous journal assignment for a "not-dominant-person-by-whatever-term-you-want-to-use". A lot of dominants require their sub/slave/rumcake to keep a journal and to write certain essays and assignments, and I can see that this would be a useful tool in helping the couple define THEIR relationship. Honestly, you could take 1000 people who self-identify as "slaves" and I guarantee that you'd end up with 1000 different relationships all differing in individual details. Like I said, call it whatever you want, EVERY SINGLE KINK PAIR defines their own unique relationship, and the particulars of how that dymanic works are always individual and unique.

starshineowned -> RE: Is there a difference between being a submissive and a slave (11/28/2009 6:09:13 PM)
quote: However anyone that tells you they have no limits, they are a liar, a fool or both. everyone has limits, some maybe harder to find than others, but they are there. I think a difference with this is who the determiner of those limits is, and not so much inference on wether or not persons have them. From the slaves I've spoken to over the years ..when they state they have no limits they were stating that they did not set the limits of the dynamics..the Master/Mistress did, and they relied upon the trust in their Master/Mistress to hopefully use good judgement and care. Most ...but not all..did not speak of running or leaving the dynamic though indicated they would ask to be released or sold. Where as the majority of those who call themselves submissive in a relationship that I've spoken with over the years or listened to indicated that they had and set their own limits, and if pushed upon them to cross them..they would effectively leave the relationship. Percentage wise that is the impression/jest I am left with. Does it cover everyone? Of course not. starshine

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