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RE: Rewriting the bible to suit your agenda - 12/4/2009 5:35:48 PM   
Brain


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I don't know what these idiots are trying to accomplish and I try not to waste my time with religion because there is so much to learn in science. Sometimes I think these people are just control freaks making it up as they go along just to make money which I guess gives them more power to do more harm.


Frank Schaeffer: Killing Gays For Jesus

Nothing illustrates the danger we face from our own Taliban better than the way American "Christians" are now tangled up with the homophobic --- now potentially gay murdering --- Ugandan Christian/political leadership.

That said... The problem of American exceptionalism combined with a theocracy in which the “we” of evangelical faith finally destroy the “they” (everyone else) is growing. Who do you think Fox News' rabid followers are? Who do you think calls Obama "Hitler" while using the tactics of fascism themselves?...


Rick Warren et al

Today Rick Warren under the guise of his benign smile, the C-Street religious gang and commune in Washington DC and Mike Huckabee, amongst many other American political and religious leaders, are carrying on my father's ideology of “taking back America” for Jesus, and forwarding the theocratic delusions and radical hate campaign of the late R.J. Rushdoony

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7556

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RE: Rewriting the bible to suit your agenda - 12/4/2009 5:57:08 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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SFR

Ever seen that crazy religious lady in that film 'The Mist'

...scary, this is what could happen if the bible is allowed to continue unquestioned. Plus it was originally written in some now dead language so you are relying on a few experts in that dead language to give the right interpretation and not another reinterpretation. What other texts from that time do we have to reference these ancient words anyway? Can anyone decipher the whole English language by reading ‘The cat sat on the mat’ book or 'Fly Fishing' by J.R. Hartley I say no.


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RE: Rewriting the bible to suit your agenda - 12/4/2009 11:12:49 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

scary, this is what could happen if the bible is allowed to continue unquestioned. Plus it was originally written in some now dead language so you are relying on a few experts in that dead language to give the right interpretation and not another reinterpretation.

I'm not sure what you mean by, "allowed to continue unquestioned." The Bible has been studied and questioned more than any other piece of literature I can think of -- from the authorship of its texts to the way it was compiled in the first place, from its various internal conflicts to the implications for its interpretation created by newly discovered texts -- in books, television documentaries, and even a recent major motion picture.

K.





< Message edited by Kirata -- 12/4/2009 11:32:49 PM >

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RE: Rewriting the bible to suit your agenda - 12/5/2009 1:41:26 AM   
NorthernGent


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As per any book the bible is open to interpretation which can only be done through personal bias.

The whole point of Protestantism was that Luther claimed that nowhere in the bible did it say that the individual should be the subjects of human authority in the shape of the catholic church/pope acting as mediators. Then the bloke in Geneva - forget his name but basically it was the beginning of the Reformed Church - felt Luther did not go far enough and retained too many catholic institutions which apparently were not mentioned in the bible. Then all sorts of Protestant sects sprang up such as the Quakers and Methodists with their own views of what exactly the bible was saying.

My own view is that the bible is a load of old bollocks.....and yes that suits my personal agenda because it doesn't matter to me whether or not there's a god.



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RE: Rewriting the bible to suit your agenda - 12/5/2009 6:27:52 AM   
Arpig


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Oh shit! That's not news, people have been rewriting the bible from the get go, why do you think there are so fucking many versions, and I don't mean modern ones...Greek, Vulgate, King James, Guttenburg, Luther's, etc. etc. etc.
One of the main advantages of the bible is that it is written in a collection of long dead languages so one can retranslate & reinterpret to one's heart's delight.


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RE: Rewriting the bible to suit your agenda - 12/5/2009 6:38:41 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Then the bloke in Geneva - forget his name but basically it was the beginning of the Reformed Church - felt Luther did not go far enough and retained too many catholic institutions which apparently were not mentioned in the bible.



Calvin the Morbidly Depressed.

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RE: Rewriting the bible to suit your agenda - 12/6/2009 3:08:41 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Then the bloke in Geneva - forget his name but basically it was the beginning of the Reformed Church - felt Luther did not go far enough and retained too many catholic institutions which apparently were not mentioned in the bible.



Calvin the Morbidly Depressed.


It wasn't. Calvin did set up shop in Geneva but he wasn't the bloke who I'm thinking of - the bloke was Swiss and was ahead of Calvin.

'You can't change people' - the signature of the posters on this board? Really. Well it was Calvinist doctrine that led to the modern way of living - work as a means of self-improvement rather than subsistence. It hasn't always been the case that we get up at 7 in the-morning work til 7 and prepare ourselves for work the next day - and it hasn't always been the case that literature as a means of realising a higher plane was advocated among common people. Calvin's your man for changing the way we structure our lives and embedding work/abstinence/thrift as central tenets of our existence.

Calvin wasn't morbidly depressed - like many Northern Europeans of his day he felt individual piety was the answer to a corrupt institution. Fair enough you wouldn't want him down the pub trying to enjoy a quiet beer while he's ranting about abstinence...."right-o Calvin there's the door mate".

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: Rewriting the bible to suit your agenda - 12/6/2009 3:05:11 PM   
kittinSol


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Aaaaaaaah, perhaps you were thinking of Huldrych Swingli (the Swissest name EVAH)?

Ever lived in Geneva? I did, for years. It's very rich, very comfortable, and very much like living in cloud cuckooland: if you ever leave, you feel like you've been dreaming, somewhat.

I'm quite sure that's NOT what Swingli & Co. would have wanted  .

PS: incidentally, Max Weber's "The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism" ought to be compulsory reading for everyone on "Pols and Rels" boards.

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 12/6/2009 3:07:16 PM >


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RE: Rewriting the bible to suit your agenda - 12/6/2009 3:15:39 PM   
Aynne88


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I shall certainly do my part.


Father Tim, thou art a good man. .


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RE: Rewriting the bible to suit your agenda - 12/6/2009 7:03:39 PM   
QuirkyAnne


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"Professors are the most liberal person in the world."

Whiskey.
Tango.
Foxtrot.

Tell that the the Prof teaching the U.S. Survey course this year in my department who on the first day told his class the following...

"There are three things I can't stand in my class.  Hippies, Flip Flops, and Hats in class.  Anyone in here JEWISH?  I sure hope not...  Well, nobody JEWISH?  Good!  Then there is no reason to be wearing a hat in class!"

Jesus... Call THAT Prof a liberal and you're probably going to find a cross burning in your yard around 2 a.m. on a Friday night.

Anne

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RE: Rewriting the bible to suit your agenda - 12/7/2009 12:39:12 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Aaaaaaaah, perhaps you were thinking of Huldrych Swingli (the Swissest name EVAH)?



That's him. Made Calvin look YTS Christian.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Ever lived in Geneva? I did, for years. It's very rich, very comfortable, and very much like living in cloud cuckooland: if you ever leave, you feel like you've been dreaming, somewhat.



Weren't you involved in the European Union? Got shafted by the mob? Remember something along those lines.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

PS: incidentally, Max Weber's "The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism" ought to be compulsory reading for everyone on "Pols and Rels" boards.



Yeah Protestantism laid the foundations for Nationalism and Imperialism....

But..the same man explained his point of democracy to Ludendorff...."In a democracy the people choose a leader whom they trust. Then the man chosen says: 'Now shut your mouths and obey me'. The people and the parties are no longer free to interfere in the leader's business".

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I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: Rewriting the bible to suit your agenda - 12/7/2009 1:57:07 PM   
Navina


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I am posting this on behalf of Demspotis, as Collarme isn't letting him put the post through due to a bug in the system.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

One of the main advantages of the bible is that it is written in a collection of long dead languages so one can retranslate & reinterpret to one's heart's delight.





The Bible was written in three languages. The older, Jewish, portion was written mainly in Hebrew, with a small part in the closely related Aramaic language. The Christian addition are usually thought to have been written originally in Greek, although some believe that some parts of the Christian scripture may have been first written in Hebrew or Aramaic, and later translated into Greek.

None of those three languages is "dead". Aside from "living" languages (which are learned by children as first languages and used in daily life by a group of people), and "dead" languages (which are not used, although they may be studied by scholars and amateur enthusiasts), there is a third category of languages, which can be called "literary" or "liturgical". These languages are not spoken as a first language, nor in every-day life, but they are kept alive in religious and/or academic spheres, so that there is a continuity (or sometimes a revival) of study, use and understanding. Such languages are in use, sometimes as a medium of communication among scholars, sometimes in literature, including scripture, and in many cases, new work is composed in them as well (a good way to distinguish between "dead" languages and "literary" ones).

A few examples may help. There are three other languages popularly thought to be "dead" which are in fact still in use to the present day in those ways: Latin, Sanskrit, and Egyptian. In the case of Egyptian, the "modern" form is not written in hieroglyphs, but in a modified form of the Greek alphabet. Being that it is used by Coptic Orthodox Church, it has borrowed a fair amount of ecclesiastical language from Greek, too, but even such central religious terms as words for God and priest are native Egyptian words, and not the Greek equivalents like ho theos and presbyteros. The Roman Catholic Church has never stopped using Latin for its official purposes; and Sanskrit remains an important and lively part of Hindu culture, and also influential for several other religions of Indian origin.

So, as for the Biblical languages: Greek and Hebrew are very much alive, although the modern languages have some differences from the forms of the languages in which those texts were written. Even those ancient versions have been continually studied, and used, in the religious and academic world. Aramaic may still be alive in one or two small communities in the Middle East... I've seen some articles saying so... but in any case it has also been continuously studied and used. Observant Jews in the Rabbinical tradition all learn Aramaic from childhood, in order to study the Talmud, and of course, they learn Biblical Hebrew in order to study the Bible... and medieval Hebrew in order to study the voluminous commentaries that their sages have produced over the centuries. Meanwhile, several Christian denominations in the Middle East use Aramaic (sometimes under other names, such as Syriac and Assyrian) at least for religious purposes, and whether or not they are able to speak it in daily life, they regard it as a major part of their heritage and culture.

Thus, even taking into account the archaic nature of the Biblical dialects, they are all at the very least "literary" and "liturgical" languages, even if not "living languages" in the usual sense of being spoken as first languages and used in daily life.


< Message edited by Navina -- 12/7/2009 2:27:15 PM >

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RE: Rewriting the bible to suit your agenda - 12/7/2009 3:08:15 PM   
Moonhead


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If you're going to resort to that argument, Latin isn't a dead language either. Most years it has more neologisms than French from the Pope's encyclicals.

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RE: Rewriting the bible to suit your agenda - 12/7/2009 9:44:37 PM   
Arpig


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1. Aramaic is no longer actively spoken
2. The Greek spoken 200 years ago is not at all like the Greek spoken today
3. The Hebrew of the Old testament is also nothing like the Hebrew spoken today.
All 3 of the languages used are either dead (Aramaic & biblical Greek) or "liturgical" (biblical Hebrew and biblical Greek might also fall into this definition). Now according to a friend of mine who is very up on languages & linguistic theory (He's a multi-lingual translator at one of our spy agencies) there is no such classification as "Liturgical" as a 3rd type of languages. According to him languages are either living (used by a substantial number of people in their daily life) or dead (not living).

I rest my case. Oh and BTW I find it sort of interesting that you pick the least relevant portion of my post and go after that. I am to assume, I suppose, that other than the "dead language" bit you agree with the rest?


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Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!


Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

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