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RE: politeness is it a sign of weakness? - 12/10/2009 6:42:38 AM   
HalloweenWhite


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This is something that's been on My mind for a long time,too;how I come across. I've been hanging around in D/s chatrooms a lot longer than I've been active r/t in the scene and came to believe Dominants were -meant- to all be gruff and serious,etc. in fact I remember being pulled in a chat room over it-because I was told I was being too jovial.

I've sometimes come up against "call Yourself a Dominant?" attitude, but really only ever experienced that kind of thing online.The Dominants and submissives I've met in r/l have all been nice,calm,down to earth people.

I came to the conclusion that some subs and slaves need more assertive types, while others need what I like to refer to as the "strong silent" type.

(in reply to willboyd)
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RE: politeness is it a sign of weakness? - 12/21/2009 10:40:04 PM   
sissyshoefetish


Posts: 105
Joined: 5/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willboyd

I am new here and am single.  Since I am rather shy I tend to fall back on politeness and respect when responding to the subs/slaves.  I am honest and truthful in my approach, and yet, it seems as though I am considered too weak or not stern enough, or something like that.  Is it really seen as weakness to the majority of subs/slaves?


i believe that politeness can never be a weakness.
That doesn't mean a sub deserves politeness or that a dom should have to consider how they address their sub. For me the abuse is often a reward so politness can be deliciously confusing and disarming,
Consider 'bend of the bed please slave i a going to spank you.' It is an order but polite and it leaves me with greater respect for my Mistress than if she barked it at me. She knows i would prefer it if She said ' Get your sad and ugly body on the bed for a spanking you f***ing loser ...' so i have to be much more well behaved to get that kind of treatment.

(in reply to willboyd)
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RE: politeness is it a sign of weakness? - 12/22/2009 5:05:39 AM   
atypicalsub


Posts: 284
Joined: 4/11/2008
From: an atypical sub
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willboyd

I am new here and am single.  Since I am rather shy I tend to fall back on politeness and respect when responding to the subs/slaves.  I am honest and truthful in my approach, and yet, it seems as though I am considered too weak or not stern enough, or something like that.  Is it really seen as weakness to the majority of subs/slaves?


My Mistress is always polite with me.  Regardless of the fact that I am her sub she still says 'please' and 'thank you' as I serve her.  I appreciate being treated kindly and respond to her better as a result of it.



_____________________________

Polyamorous, solitary eclectic pagan, pansexual slut, and personal pet of MistressYes

"Do not do anything you are ashamed of, and don't be ashamed of anything you do"
(although I'm sure my bio-family wishes I did less and was ashamed of more)


(in reply to willboyd)
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RE: politeness is it a sign of weakness? - 12/22/2009 7:36:08 AM   
osf


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some of the worlds most heinous tyrants could be very polite and charming

politeness and civility are a means to an end usually social harmony and inter personal harmony

also the tone of civility can drip with determined cruelty

(in reply to willboyd)
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RE: politeness is it a sign of weakness? - 12/22/2009 7:38:54 AM   
LatteAddict


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From: West Midlands, UK
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I think you're confusing politeness with sycophancy. Being polite is being respectful, being a creep is something else.

Politeness is a pre-condition of virtually all conversations. Who would want to talk to someone who is rude and boorish?

(in reply to willboyd)
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RE: politeness is it a sign of weakness? - 12/22/2009 7:50:46 AM   
osf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LatteAddict

I think you're confusing politeness with sycophancy. Being polite is being respectful, being a creep is something else.

Politeness is a pre-condition of virtually all conversations. Who would want to talk to someone who is rude and boorish?


civility is a behavior, respect is an attitude, you can be civil/polite without respect

if that person had information that i needed, i'd listen

(in reply to LatteAddict)
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RE: politeness is it a sign of weakness? - 12/22/2009 9:21:52 AM   
DesFIP


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Being confident is a turn on. If you're shy and without confidence, that's what is getting you not chosen and not your manners.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to osf)
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RE: politeness is it a sign of weakness? - 12/22/2009 11:27:49 AM   
SaharahEve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willboyd

I am new here and am single.  Since I am rather shy I tend to fall back on politeness and respect when responding to the subs/slaves.  I am honest and truthful in my approach, and yet, it seems as though I am considered too weak or not stern enough, or something like that.  Is it really seen as weakness to the majority of subs/slaves?


There is no need for aggression or rudeness when searching for new submissives. Aggression and rudeness are a weak man's version of power. Extending a level of courtesy isn't a sign of a weakness, it's a sign of intelligence. People are more receptive when they find you disarming, and when they feel you're treating them with respect and dignity.


< Message edited by SaharahEve -- 12/22/2009 11:53:08 AM >


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Saharah


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(in reply to willboyd)
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RE: politeness is it a sign of weakness? - 12/22/2009 12:27:46 PM   
ceebee


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Unfortunately, far too many people confuse a dominant/submissive relationship with an arragant abusive asshole/victim one. As my time is valuable, I simply refused to even expend energy speaking to anyone who can't distinguish the two; and inital politeness was always the first clue. If a Dom isnt capable of behaving civilily during the talking phase, how can a sub trust them to respect boundaries later on?


(in reply to SaharahEve)
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RE: politeness is it a sign of weakness? - 12/22/2009 12:55:20 PM   
osf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ceebee

Unfortunately, far too many people confuse a dominant/submissive relationship with an arragant abusive asshole/victim one. As my time is valuable, I simply refused to even expend energy speaking to anyone who can't distinguish the two; and inital politeness was always the first clue. If a Dom isnt capable of behaving civilily during the talking phase, how can a sub trust them to respect boundaries later on?




some women seem to want the asshole, they advertise on here for one

(in reply to ceebee)
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RE: politeness is it a sign of weakness? - 12/22/2009 1:39:42 PM   
fadedshadow


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politeness isn't a sign of weakness, being polite is a very good thing in my opinion

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(in reply to dragonseeker)
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RE: politeness is it a sign of weakness? - 12/22/2009 1:46:11 PM   
lally2


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isnt this the same as when some subs who arent all sweet and subbie in the first five minutes are told 'Youre not a submissive'

its the same attitude just a different target.

to the OP - in my opinion, humble though it is - good on ya - shows you are considerate, respectful and kind. all great, all worth submitting to and one day youll find someone who recgnises that. in the meantime dont change a thing, be you and youll be fine im sure.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: politeness is it a sign of weakness? - 12/22/2009 8:00:35 PM   
poeticfreak


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i was having a similar train of thought, some people consistently choose those who treat them poorly and as a result infer that they are submissive and that one cannot be a dom/me unless they are arrogant and abusive

_____________________________

I have believed the best of every man. And find that to believe is enough to make a bad man show him at his best, or even a good man swings his lantern higher.- yeats

(in reply to ceebee)
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RE: politeness is it a sign of weakness? - 12/24/2009 6:23:12 AM   
HumiliatedOinker


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Being Polite is more a quality and how someone is, being I get annoyed easily at the gamers on this site, I don't tend to be as polite on here as I am in a real time situation, however I am pretty much an optimistic type of person who views the world in different ways. Each Dom has their own Personality, as does each submissive. As People we are attracted too different traits.

By the way who would ever want to be around someone who is rude? I don't see it as just being on this site and in bdsm, but generally speaking, that is how I look at it.

I expect a dominant to be polite, and I try to return that politeness as the same I do with respect.

(in reply to dragonseeker)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: politeness is it a sign of weakness? - 12/24/2009 6:27:45 AM   
osf


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politeness and civility is only what you see of the person at the moment, while always welcome it is not necessarily an indicator of character

(in reply to HumiliatedOinker)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: politeness is it a sign of weakness? - 12/24/2009 10:36:14 PM   
Aswad


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Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willboyd

Is it really seen as weakness to the majority of subs/slaves?


I'm generally civil, which passes for politeness as far as I am concerned. It seems to work for most people I encounter, too. The rest, in my experience, are more concerned with protocol than civility. Protocol is the province of the mindless adherents to precedent, custom and norm. All the prescriptives that people are bound to from bowing to pressure. This, unlike civility, could certainly be seen as a weakness. I'm inclined to see it so, myself.

As for shyness, I would imagine that doesn't fly too well. Confidence, without false confidence, is usually taken well, at least in person, and shyness is frequently tied to a lack of confidence in general, or a lack of some particular aspect of it (for instance, lack of confidence in one's social abilities, whether due to lack of training or for some other reason). This, fortunately, is readily remedied with experience and training.

Respect is a tricky one. It depends on how you define it, and what the context is.

Obviously, most people want some degree of respect. Yet, at the same time, the word is defined as esteem, admiration or high regard, alternately as some degree of obedience or deference. The latter two are clearly not going to win any points, and omitting the former three is going to sit poorly with some and well with others. It's kind of like how some enjoy humiliation or verbal abuse, while others absolutely hate it. Some subs think it's hot to be held to be less, or lower than, the dom. Some think it's abusive or at the very least get turned off by it. For most of the subs I like, it seems to depend on the context. It's a fair bit like knowing when to kiss a date good night and go home, vs. when to grab a firm hold of her ass and hoist her up between you and the door and start making out. Or knowing when you're just flirting with someone, and when you're working each other up for something more.

Finally, what people say, think and feel... these are rarely all that correlated.

Part of relating well to people is knowing the difference between what they will respond well to, what they think they will respond well to, and what they say they will respond well to, and vice versa for responding poorly. I've met people who say they want to do a lot of humiliation play, and genuinely think it will work for them, yet they go cold and withdraw at the slightest hint of it. And I have also met people who claim to get offended by humiliation and want nothing to do with it, that nonetheless respond amazingly well to being treated as out-and-out subhuman and then want more. We're human. We don't have a clue what we want and like before we try it, and we aren't always honest with ourselves about our experiences afterwards, because of this nice little thing known as cognitive bias, a well studied set of phenomena by which we bend our own perceptions of the truth to fit with various other priorities and to minimize dissonance between conflicting perceptions.

The people you want to be with, will respond to being treated the way you would treat people you want to be with, whether or not they are aware of that or not. Pursuing that line of thinking will cause some people to respond poorly, because your interactions will be less bland. That's not a bad thing, it just saves you time interacting with people you wouldn't work with anyway. Nobody is going to be excited by bland neutrality. They're either going to be excited by you, or not at all, so be you and let them respond to that however they will. Proceed with those who respond well.

That's being honest with yourself and your prospective partners.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to willboyd)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: politeness is it a sign of weakness? - 12/24/2009 11:03:30 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

some women seem to want the asshole, they advertise on here for one


A lot of women want the asshole. Few of those will admit it to themselves. Fewer still will admit it to others.

There is a pretty huge gap between being the asshole and being a piece of shit, though.

Health,
al-Aswad.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: politeness is it a sign of weakness? - 12/25/2009 6:28:07 AM   
osf


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i try to be civil and some say i'm witty and humorous, on here that seems to confuse some

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to Aswad)
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RE: politeness is it a sign of weakness? - 12/25/2009 4:37:44 PM   
Michael3001


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

some women seem to want the asshole, they advertise on here for one


A lot of women want the asshole. Few of those will admit it to themselves. Fewer still will admit it to others.



Wishful thinking? Change your circle of female friends. Any self respecting woman is going to expect a man to treat her with respect. You need better examples, change your friends.

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: politeness is it a sign of weakness? - 12/25/2009 4:39:43 PM   
osf


Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael3001


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

some women seem to want the asshole, they advertise on here for one


A lot of women want the asshole. Few of those will admit it to themselves. Fewer still will admit it to others.



Wishful thinking? Change your circle of female friends. Any self respecting woman is going to expect a man to treat her with respect. You need better examples, change your friends.


what the hell are you talking about?

can you say, humiliation?

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to Michael3001)
Profile   Post #: 60
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