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RE: Shadow play - 3/15/2006 1:50:31 PM   
UtopianRanger


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quote:

It was my first experience with 'shadowing.'

From Wikipedia - Dr. Carl Jung was the first to coin the term shadowing as the 'unconscious complex that is defined as the diametrical opposite of the conscious self, the ego. The shadow represents everything that the conscious person does not wish to acknowledge within themselves.'

Of course, BDSMer's modify anything and everything to fit into our own world and shadowing is no different.


Thank you for the education.... There hasn't been a day gone by that I haven't leaned something valid from a poster here.

I must admit tho... my intital thought upon seeing the title of thethread, was more along lines of something akin to ''shadow boxing''



- The Ranger

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 3/15/2006 1:58:29 PM >


_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: Shadow play - 3/15/2006 2:50:47 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

In shadow play, you are drawing the fear to the surface on purpose and with control so you can get passed it.


Thanks for sharing, Celeste. i agree with this, only i would add "with an extremely trusted person" - otherwise who knows what the outcome could be. Master and i talked at great length about my belt issues (and some other issues i have since wanted to face) so he knew as much as i did about what triggered me and how, and took it slowly, paying intensely close attention to my every reaction. He checked on me regularly.

Like you with the brush, a belt that's just laying there is now just a belt. Nice to be relieved of that burden :)

i also agree about therapy for day to day trauma issues that need to be healed.

Great thread, thank you.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Shadow play - 3/15/2006 3:06:36 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

i would add "with an extremely trusted person" - otherwise who knows what the outcome could be.


Thank you, Owned. I tend to write from my own perspectives and don't submit to people I don't trust .. well, with my life, so sometimes forget that there are others out there who do submit casually. Very good 'add' on.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Shadow play - 3/15/2006 5:23:16 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
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This is the first that I have heard a name put to this. I have several triggers that I know of. One will make me freak and become extremely violent, another makes me panic and become frozen in fear and another makes me angry.

Being hit on the ass, with anything makes me angry. The longer he does it, the angrier I will get and eventually I will start fighting back. He knows this, he likes it and he encourages it. Depending on the toy that is used, I will get angrier faster. But this is just fun for both of us. We know I have this trigger and we both enjoy setting it off.

The smell of shredded vegetation causes me to panic. Witnessing an F5 tornado from a few hundred meters can do that to a person (though I didn't panic at the time). I have worked past most of it, but every now and then that smell will catch me off guard. Living in an area that has become hurricane central the past couple years, I have the opportunity to experience that smell more often than I would like.

In the middle of sex a certain hand gesture and body movement will cause me to freak and become violent. I was raped at the age of 14 and a certain movement will put me back in that place. What will trigger it is not something that I can demonstrate; it's almost like seeing something out of the corner of your eye. It isn't distinct or direct. It has not happened with my Lord, but it happened once with a former boyfriend and it scared the crap out of him. I wouldn't let him touch me for days. It would be interesting to see what would happen if that occurred with my Lord. He is much more capable of handling my aggression.

Thanks for the post Celeste.

Knight's kyra


_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: Shadow play - 3/16/2006 7:17:59 AM   
edianspet


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Very enlightening post, thanks Celeste.

I'm going to let Edian know about this thread, I think it will answer questions about certain episodes that have happened. Thanks again for sharing it and providing much valuable information and insight.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Shadow play - 3/16/2006 5:39:58 PM   
Sensualips


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Joined: 10/8/2005
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quote:

In shadow play, you are drawing the fear to the surface on purpose and with control so you can get passed it.


quote:

Unfortunately, in the case of shadowing, it can come upon you so suddenly that you can't help but go there,


Wait! Which is it?

No, I basically understand what you are saying. It is an interesting post and something to think about. I like to leave creepy intense mind stuff to the professionals, but I understand that sometimes you just deal with what you got.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: Shadow play - 3/16/2006 8:31:41 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
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quote:

Wait! Which is it?

No, I basically understand what you are saying. It is an interesting post and something to think about. I like to leave creepy intense mind stuff to the professionals, but I understand that sometimes you just deal with what you got.


Shadowing comes upon you suddenly. Shadow 'play' is what BDSMers have turned it in to.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Sensualips)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Shadow play - 3/16/2006 8:33:52 PM   
ownedgirlie


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Thanks for the clarification, Celeste.

And just so you know, every time i open up this thread i start singing "Shadow Dancing" in my head, thank you very much. :)

(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: Shadow play - 9/20/2007 9:41:40 PM   
sapphirepleasure


Posts: 411
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Land of Enchantment
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I just found this thread in the archives and I so relate to it that I wanted to revive it to see if others have experienced it as well.  Three times with two different Masters I experienced this and was able to work through it with their help.  When I have more time to process and write, I will share more.

sp

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RE: Shadow play - 9/20/2007 10:50:23 PM   
ownedgirlie


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Great, now I'm singing "Shadow Dancing" again...


(in reply to sapphirepleasure)
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RE: Shadow play - 9/20/2007 11:07:49 PM   
curvyslavegirl


Posts: 134
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
The PTSD type reaction that you're talking about is something VERY different from the jungian idea of shadowplay.

There are several therapists, especially in the Bay Area, who work with bdsm & shadow and what they speak of and study is something quite different from what you're discussing. There is some great work that people are doing on how bdsm can help heal past trauma by teaching people how to trust in situations that felt very out of control in the past. Many people recreate (either intentionally or accidentally) their past traumas with new partners. When it is in a trusting environment, sometimes it can actually help you rewrite your experiences. One story that comes to mind is a woman who had been tied up and raped and reclaimed her sexuality by allowing her girlfriend to tie her up within a negotiated scene. By reexperiencing bondage in a situation that felt out of control in a controlled way, she felt healed.
What you're talking about is very important and I applaud you for not being afraid to have these conversations outloud. Trauma work is important, but it is about your experience of another person and the effects that they have had on you. Shadow work is something different, it is about your experiences of yourself & your own humanity.

In Jungian terms the shadow isn't repressed memories, trauma or events. Its a mirror to the public sides that you put out there. Shadow work is a part of individuation. Essentially the theory is that when you have a self definition that has polar opposities to it, you can not understand the one you believe is part of your identity if you don't embrace the parts of you that match the opposite. Its the freedom lover who experiments with chains, the feminist who kneels to a man, the saint who admits to himself that it would be really exciting to steal. It's the intelligent person who can growl like an animal. It can also work the opposite way. The sadist who heals. The killer who finds mercy. It's about all of the unconcious aspects of the self that naturally exist. There is no thought of the shadow as bad or good, it is a necessity and balances the soul.
In BDSM terms, surrender of power, acknowledgement of pain & the deliberate seeking of humiliation tend to be seem as direct forms of shadowplay. Power, pain & humiliation are parts of the human experience that people usually run away from. By running TO them instead of away from them, BDSM participants are embracing shadow. They're dancing with the other sides of humanity, examining them and knowing their relationships with them in a deep & meaningful way.
If you want to know more about it there are some fabulous people working in this realm that are kink friendly. Dossie Easton (West coast) & Dorothy Hayden(East Coast) are two that come to mind.

Here is a geat quote by Hayden on the shadow
"The psychoanalyst most in tuned with the missing element in psychotherapeutic work with masochism is Carl Jung. Masochism may be imagined as cultivation of what Jung called the "shadow" - the darker, mostly unconscious part of the psyche which he regarded not as a sickness, but as an essential part of the human psyche. The shadow is the tunnel, channel, or connector through which one reaches the deepest, most elemental layers of psyche. Going through the tunnel, or breaking the ego defenses down, one feels reduced and degraded. Usually, we try to bring the shadow under the ego's domination. Embracing the shadow, on the other hand, provides a fuller sense of self-knowledge, self-acceptance and a fuller sense of being alive. Jung's idea of the shadow involves force and passivity, horror and beauty, power and impotence, straightness and perversion, infantilism, wisdom and foolishness. The experience of the shadow is humiliating and occasionally frightening, but it is a reduction to life‹to essential life, which includes suffering, pain, powerlessness and humiliation. Submission to masochistic pain, loss of control and humiliation serves to embrace our shadow rather than deny it. The result is the achievement of an inner life that accepts and embraces all aspects of our selves and allows us to live with a deeper sense of our true selves."



< Message edited by curvyslavegirl -- 9/20/2007 11:12:54 PM >

(in reply to sapphirepleasure)
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RE: Shadow play - 9/20/2007 11:29:35 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: curvyslavegirl

The PTSD type reaction that you're talking about is something VERY different from the jungian idea of shadowplay.




Indeed and I do hope I made that clear in subsequent posts. I never heard the term 'shadow work', but after a bit of online research, I do believe it's different from shadow play as used by S/Mers. When I wrote that article back in '98, I'd never seen any other articles about the subject, so anything that adds to the tool chest is great in my book. Thanks for the contribution. Very valuable. :)

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to curvyslavegirl)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Shadow play - 9/21/2007 3:47:42 AM   
curvyslavegirl


Posts: 134
Joined: 1/1/2004
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You're just that far ahead of the game ;)

There are so many fabulous kink friendly writer therapists emerging that I wouldn't be shocked if a whole slew of books start showing up on the shelves over the next few years.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Shadow play - 9/21/2007 4:30:44 AM   
Cyntilating


Posts: 581
Joined: 6/19/2007
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BitaTruble
 
thanks for your post...and openness.
and to the others who have shared that they experience this also.
 
according to your definition "trauma you are not aware of, until a situation scening brings it out"  >>> Im not sure if mine qualifies or not..
  because I was aware of it beforehand...and it was something he and I talked at great length about in the beginning.
 
I panic (severely, as you say..as in unbeleivable strength and force and will throw a body off of me ) when my mouth and nose are covered at the same time....either with a hand,or pillow ( as in playing and wrestling)..hoods, omg no...
I am not necessarily claustrophobic ...just when my face is covered or ristricted from full air flow and space..
PANICing writing this..geez
 
anyway..so I can relate to what you post...
 
this seems to be "one of those topics"  that people tend to jump on with " never"  "shouldn't"  "wrong to's "   and so I tend not to bring up the fact that, yes, Master has worked with me on this and gradually was able to cross ( if thats the right word)  this limit.  I realize its not a limit, as in moral or ethical......but for me   it was/is a demon-limit..
so far> he is the only one that can ..and I dont panic as much anymore when he does it..   its not something he "plays with"...and he knows it takes an abundance of patience and takes alot out of me, when it happens..and so it happens seldom and very carefully..
 
but I wanted to say Thanks for posting... its good to know others can relate..

  

_____________________________

Cyndi

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: Shadow play - 9/21/2007 5:35:31 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

I get sudden bouts of irrational fear driving in a car as passenger or driver. It freaks me out, I dont seem to have any control over it. Ive got no idea what triggers it. In this shadow play, how would we deal with that one?


See a competent psychologist or psychiatrist. Determine if these are panic attacks of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Get scrip for appropriate medication.

If phobia, see psychologist and do desensitizing exercises.

This assumes these attacks occur often enough that it interferes with your ability to drive, or to get in a car. If you live in Manhattan and never need to drive, then don't bother. If you're having frequent accidents, get help soonest.

I've never heard of it as shadow play, only as hitting an emotional trigger. Here, we identify them, we talk a lot about it and then he leaves it alone until I bring the subject back up. Because if he brings it back up I feel as though he's pushing to do it again, and I get less able to think clearly. Instead I spend more time and energy protecting myself.

By waiting until I need to talk about it, and allowing me to gain some perspective, we find that eventually I can disect it and discover what one part of it is the problem. So if a hairbrush was the problem, he wouldn't use it but would substitute a wooden cutting board perhaps. If the word bitch was the problem, he'd substitute the word slut. And so on.

And in time, through the medium of the substitute, my original feelings dissipate.

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RE: Shadow play - 9/21/2007 8:20:39 AM   
SirCache


Posts: 159
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I've had a couple times where things triggered a reaction in a sub, and you're totally right about it--stop, and give them time to digest it, to express it.  No matter how we go about our individual relationships, one of the most important things for me in a relationship is the emotional well-being of those I am with.  If I cant acknowledge that, I have no business pretending to do anything with them or anyone else.

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RE: Shadow play - 9/21/2007 10:59:40 AM   
sirguym


Posts: 318
Joined: 8/10/2007
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I have not heard the words used, but seen people trip up over these 'landmines' buried in our pasts many time. I have not come across any myself, but sadly I suspect that I am in a minority in not knowingly ever having suffered serious physical, emotional, sexual or other abuse in my life.

I think most people have at some point, particularly any brought up in households afflicted by the stone-age social attitudes that come with fundamentalist religion or backwoods ignorance (and particularly both).

Mostly they get over it, get on with their lives, and usually forget it, like we all forget anything that really really hurts.

And when something unexpected reminds us of it, brings it back to the surface, exposes it to sight, buried scars are exposed.

I think if there is no need to do anything about it, it is best to tiptoe away and just avoid triggering the reaction again.

Otherwise patient desensitisation, or whatever with somebody really patient, caring, or whatever can help.

I most certainly wouldn't go to psycho-analyst under any circumstances, in my experience that will make it worse and cost a fortune.

I would be very wary of most other professionals in the field - I have seen the results of 'ministrations' by those inclined to be judgemental.

So, no answers, but best that you and a loved and trusted one take charge yourselves and solve it yourselves.

(in reply to Sub03)
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RE: Shadow play - 9/21/2007 11:50:19 AM   
goalie62


Posts: 114
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline
I had never heard of this before.  I am very grateful for you having posted it.  I will be very aware of it now should I encounter it in the future.

_____________________________

God, you have no idea how badly I want to put something profound here.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Shadow play - 9/21/2007 12:11:48 PM   
murmur


Posts: 394
Joined: 9/26/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: curvyslavegirl

The PTSD type reaction that you're talking about is something VERY different from the jungian idea of shadowplay.

There are several therapists, especially in the Bay Area, who work with bdsm & shadow and what they speak of and study is something quite different from what you're discussing. There is some great work that people are doing on how bdsm can help heal past trauma by teaching people how to trust in situations that felt very out of control in the past. Many people recreate (either intentionally or accidentally) their past traumas with new partners. When it is in a trusting environment, sometimes it can actually help you rewrite your experiences. One story that comes to mind is a woman who had been tied up and raped and reclaimed her sexuality by allowing her girlfriend to tie her up within a negotiated scene. By reexperiencing bondage in a situation that felt out of control in a controlled way, she felt healed.
What you're talking about is very important and I applaud you for not being afraid to have these conversations outloud. Trauma work is important, but it is about your experience of another person and the effects that they have had on you. Shadow work is something different, it is about your experiences of yourself & your own humanity.

In Jungian terms the shadow isn't repressed memories, trauma or events. Its a mirror to the public sides that you put out there. Shadow work is a part of individuation. Essentially the theory is that when you have a self definition that has polar opposities to it, you can not understand the one you believe is part of your identity if you don't embrace the parts of you that match the opposite. Its the freedom lover who experiments with chains, the feminist who kneels to a man, the saint who admits to himself that it would be really exciting to steal. It's the intelligent person who can growl like an animal. It can also work the opposite way. The sadist who heals. The killer who finds mercy. It's about all of the unconcious aspects of the self that naturally exist. There is no thought of the shadow as bad or good, it is a necessity and balances the soul.
In BDSM terms, surrender of power, acknowledgement of pain & the deliberate seeking of humiliation tend to be seem as direct forms of shadowplay. Power, pain & humiliation are parts of the human experience that people usually run away from. By running TO them instead of away from them, BDSM participants are embracing shadow. They're dancing with the other sides of humanity, examining them and knowing their relationships with them in a deep & meaningful way.
If you want to know more about it there are some fabulous people working in this realm that are kink friendly. Dossie Easton (West coast) & Dorothy Hayden(East Coast) are two that come to mind.

Here is a geat quote by Hayden on the shadow
"The psychoanalyst most in tuned with the missing element in psychotherapeutic work with masochism is Carl Jung. Masochism may be imagined as cultivation of what Jung called the "shadow" - the darker, mostly unconscious part of the psyche which he regarded not as a sickness, but as an essential part of the human psyche. The shadow is the tunnel, channel, or connector through which one reaches the deepest, most elemental layers of psyche. Going through the tunnel, or breaking the ego defenses down, one feels reduced and degraded. Usually, we try to bring the shadow under the ego's domination. Embracing the shadow, on the other hand, provides a fuller sense of self-knowledge, self-acceptance and a fuller sense of being alive. Jung's idea of the shadow involves force and passivity, horror and beauty, power and impotence, straightness and perversion, infantilism, wisdom and foolishness. The experience of the shadow is humiliating and occasionally frightening, but it is a reduction to life‹to essential life, which includes suffering, pain, powerlessness and humiliation. Submission to masochistic pain, loss of control and humiliation serves to embrace our shadow rather than deny it. The result is the achievement of an inner life that accepts and embraces all aspects of our selves and allows us to live with a deeper sense of our true selves."




Beautiful post, curvyslavegirl and bravo for the post Bitatruble. It really is fascinating.

< Message edited by murmur -- 9/21/2007 12:12:29 PM >


_____________________________

Become who you are. - Socrate

(in reply to curvyslavegirl)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Shadow play - 9/21/2007 12:24:30 PM   
kirby104


Posts: 94
Joined: 6/6/2005
Status: offline
Thank you for your awesome post. I have grown to immensely fear electrical play due to being harmed "in a scene." I also suffer from flashbacks and PTSD. I do not want to deal with it at this time because of the present battles I am facing.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 40
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