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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 9:26:49 PM   
Lockit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Laymedown60

I respect your thoughts...but I know crooks...they are there to take...this was not a house invasion... if they are discovered and they have a way out they run. Why stay and take a chance of getting shot.

My Police Department says

“Stay in the room you're in and lock and barricade the door. Immediately call the police to get help on the way. Shout to the intruder that the police have been called and are en route. “

I think I'll follow their advice first...but i will have a shotgun back up


Butch



I am sorry, but if the police say this... then I find it faulty in a number of situations. It is meant I am sure for an in general, what is best, but cannot be what is best in all situations. When you have family member's... unprotected and vulnerable family members, scattered around a house... hiding in a bedroom as an adult, as safe as an adult can be, leaving minors or vulnerable family members to face what could come... seems a real chicken shit way to protect those in your care. It also reeks of victim and I don't do victim well.

Sorry... my family depends on me and I am going to go rambo if I feel I must to protect them. What I find interesting in this thread is that most who are talking... hide... close in... no guns and such, have not had a home invasion. If you have been there, you know the danger, you can smell it... you know the fear or calm or whatever you feel. You know what can happen if you are vulnerable. If you haven't been there... I am sorry, you can only assume to know what you might do and what you should do and what is what.

For me and my household... I can weld a baseball bat, razor, gun or any other thing I have trained myself to use in any situation including the shower... to protect my loved ones and self. That is first and foremost my right according to most police officer's I have talked to and they do say... things can be situational and you have to do what you feel you must to protect yourself.

So many disagree... so... disagree... but the simple fact is, no one is changing most of our minds and we who have been there, know the realistic take on what one will do when faced with more than a cat in the garage or the next room.

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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 9:26:58 PM   
InvisibleBlack


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack

.... is less likely to result in a good outcome given what we now know about the intruder's thought processes.


What exactly do we now know about the alleged intruder's thought processes that we didn't know when the thread began?



Ah. You're right. Pardon my syntax. Strike the "now".

Given what we've been told about the intruder's thought processes - that he refused to raise his hands and then went for his gun when there was a gun pointed at his head - I consider it unlikely that one can safely assume that he would use common sense when threatened with the police.

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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 9:28:28 PM   
InvisibleBlack


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Well I try Loki...its important to get these things right.....even if one goes around sprouting utter idiotic bullshit.....one wants to do it correctly.I applaud "your" efforts in this area.

"Sprouting"?

K.



It's growing right out of your head!

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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 9:30:45 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kimveri


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
stricter gun laws leads (on a direct proportional basis) to less gun violence...PERIOD. Less guns = less people shot.


...yup....but lots more stabbed, suffocated, frozen, axed, mauled by dogs & beaten to death with bare hands & iron skillets. Do you honestly believe that the guns commit the crimes, NOT the people?? Or are you saying those people wouldn't commit those crimes if they didn't have a gun?? Crimes that have been around since....ohhhh....God was leaving Moses notes in STONE??

Yeahhhhh....riiiiiiiiiiiiight....before firearms, life was perfect & people were always nice.

*wants whatever HE's drinking!!

~Kimveri


A gun is a far more more deadly and efficient killing machine than any of the examples you mentioned.

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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 9:32:16 PM   
Laymedown60


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Try the CDC site they allow you to refine your searches but the death of children is always tragic but has nothing to do with this thread...Panda just asked me to post the statistics.

I am pro gun but with restrictions... I would love only single shot 20 gauge shotguns to be legal but I dream and I know it.

Butch

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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 9:33:06 PM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

I respect your thoughts...but I know crooks...they are there to take...this was not a house invasion... if they are discovered and they have a way out they run. Why stay and take a chance of getting shot.

Why wouldn't he raise his hands when a gun was pointed at him, then? Face it, this guy wasn't really acting all that rationally. To assume that he would have just run off could have led to someone getting killed.


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(in reply to Laymedown60)
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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 9:37:31 PM   
Laymedown60


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There are always exceptions...and I'll bet you have a plan if it happens...Yelling that you know the burglar is there and the police are on the way can only help.

Like I said I will have a 20 gauge backup...but I will always try to avoid bloodshed, even if it means the burglar.

I don’t have to kill.

Laymedown

(in reply to Lockit)
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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 9:37:47 PM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

I'm a gun owner. I am not a gun enthusiast. I own one handgun that I purchased for personal protection. If someone comes up with a foolproof way to remove guns from everyone's possession in the USA I will gladly surrender my weapon.



I like that way of putting it. 

I am not a gun owner.  I don't like guns at all, and simply consider them to be a necessary evil.  Perhaps some day I will own a gun, but won't do it without getting trained in its use.


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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 9:39:05 PM   
Laymedown60


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If you had a gun pointed at you ...and you had a gun...you make reach for it without thinking don't you think?

laymedown

(in reply to WyldHrt)
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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 9:41:36 PM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

If you had a gun pointed at you ...and you had a gun...you make reach for it without thinking don't you think?

Without thinking? Orion told him THREE times to put up his hands while the guy stood there. What, it was delayed reaction unthinking? No, I don't think so.


_____________________________

"MotherFUCKER!" is NOT a safeword!!"- Steel
"We've had complaints about 'orgy noises'. This is not the neighborhood for that kind of thing"- PVE Cop

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Subby Mafia, VAA Posse & Team Troll!

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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 9:43:42 PM   
Lockit


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You might reach for something automatically... especially when you know you aren't supposed to be where you are, doing what you are doing... but that is simply a risk you take when your career is crime against other's.

You think I would care if I blew my rapist away? Nope... not at all. I just didn't have anything to blow him away with. I will never be that vulnerable again. Now... I have dealt with other criminals since... and I can honestly say... I learned well how to protect my home and all in it. Could someone take me out... sure.. but I can't think of a better cause to die for. I have also talked my way out of things. But when you are in the moment, you do what you feel you must. And I sleep well at night.

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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 9:44:00 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack


A quick search provided me this, which shows that in 2003 there were 81,216,385 children between the ages of 0 and 19 in the United States. There were 53,539 deaths among this group and of those there were 151 due to accidental firearm discharge. Obviously the death of a child is a terrible thing but 151 out of ~54,000 deaths is something like 2 one thousandths of 1% (check my math here, it's late).

If your primary concern is protecting children, I'd have to agree with the other posters that there are more serious causes to go after before firearms become a serious target for attention. If your major concern is the evil of guns, then I guess the rest of it doesn't matter.


Well shit, I didn't know that.

It's only 151 deaths of children due to accidental firearm discharge. 

Practically a drop in the bucket.

No worries.






Unless it is your child.

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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 9:44:31 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

If you had a gun pointed at you ...and you had a gun...you make reach for it without thinking don't you think?


Well, I can't speak for anybody else but as for me - fuck no! If somebody has the drop on me then I'm one compliant s.o.b. - but then I'm rational.

Edited to add: Why, I'm willing to bet that even Panda would be polite to Sarah Palin if she ever got the drop on him. Guns have that effect on most people when they have one pointed at them. Most people.




< Message edited by Marc2b -- 12/8/2009 9:47:30 PM >


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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 9:45:04 PM   
Laymedown60


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This is from a home security site...lots of sense. Not one bit of advice says get a gun and go after the burglar

What to Do if a Burglar Breaks into Your Home

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One of the most frightening things that can happen is discovering that an intruder has broken into your home -- especially when it's the middle of the night, and you know they are still there.

About 16% of American households are burglarized each year. Stated differently, a burglary occurs every 13 seconds in the United States.

And unfortunately, thousands of these crimes are committed each year while someone is at home. It certainly makes sense to know what you should do if this ever happens to you!

To help you understand your best options in this extremely scary situation, we interviewed Chris E. McGoey.

Chris is an internationally known Los Angeles-based security consultant and producer of the Crime Doctor website. He is considered to be an expert on residential security matters.

==> http://www.crimedoctor.com

Audri: Welcome, Chris! I really appreciate your taking the time to talk with me and help our ScamBusters subscribers.

Let me begin by asking: what is the best thing you can do to avoid the break-in turning into a tragedy?

Chris: The best thing you can do is to make a plan -- before it ever happens. It's very important to think about this now -- when you are calm and there is no danger.

That's why it's so useful to alert your subscribers ahead of time with interviews like this -- so they can have a plan they hopefully will never need.

There is no single best strategy for dealing with this situation.

Audri: What is the first thing you should do in this situation?

Chris: Be very quiet so you can listen. Try to figure out how many intruders there are. Are they coming toward you? Are they ransacking your house?

If you can, stay in the room you're in and lock and barricade the door. Immediately call the police to get help on the way. Shout to the intruder that the police have been called and are en route.

Audri: What's best: should you stay in the house, confront the intruder, or leave?

Chris: Stay in your home unless the intruder tries to get into your room. Never confront the intruder unless in self-defense.

Another option is that if you can safely escape, do it. For example, if you can safely climb out a window and get help, that's great. However, if you sleep upstairs and can't leave easily, then you'll need to take a different approach.

Audri: Can you share some tips regarding what to do?

Chris: First, be prepared. Second, don't argue with your spouse about what to do -- this just alerts the intruders about where you are before you've taken any action. That's another reason to plan ahead.

Third, it's not a good idea to leave your bedroom carrying a weapon like a baseball bat or a flashlight. If you surprise the intruder, they are more likely to act violently.

Fourth, it's always good to have a safe room. It can be an interior closet with a sturdy door and a deadbolt lock on the inside. Call the police. Make sure you have a cell phone accessible from your safe room -- and make sure it's charged. You should be safe until the police arrive.

Audri: Any advice for calling the police?

Chris: Yes, call the police ASAP. You may have to use a cell phone if the intruders have disabled the phone or have taken the telephone extension off the hook.

Another tip is to be very concise and specific with the police dispatcher.

Say that someone has broken into your home, and that you don't know whether or not they have a weapon. Give your address and any instructions to get there if necessary.

Tell the dispatcher where you are (for example, upstairs in the west bedroom), and where the intruder is (downstairs in the living room).

Audri: What happens if you encounter the intruder?

Chris: Don't stay there or fight or argue... run away or barricade yourself in a room and call 911.

If that doesn't work, try to remain calm and speak in a normal voice.

Tip: Avoid direct eye contact if possible. This can be interpreted as aggressive behavior.

Audri: Should you try to protect yourself with a gun or a knife?

Chris: No. Only confront the intruder with a weapon as a last resort to save your life or a family member. Your property is not worth risking your life.

Carrying a weapon of any kind increases the chances that you or your family members will be hurt.

Audri: Is there anything you can do now to protect yourself if this situation does occur that would be helpful?

Chris: Most burglars will run away if they have wakened you -- unless they have been surprised or confronted.

Audri: What is the single most important advice you can give our subscribers?

Chris: Have a family planning meeting to decide what everyone will do during an emergency or violent intrusion. Someone should always try to escape and get help.

Also, if you have a burglar alarm system, hit the 'panic' button. Learn what to do NOW -- that's much safer than when you're truly panicked.

Audri: Chris, I'd like to thank you very much. This has been very useful. And I recommend that our subscribers visit your website for lots of other articles on home, family, and business security:

(in reply to WyldHrt)
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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 9:48:10 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

I respect your thoughts...but I know crooks...they are there to take...this was not a house invasion... if they are discovered and they have a way out they run. Why stay and take a chance of getting shot.

Why wouldn't he raise his hands when a gun was pointed at him, then? Face it, this guy wasn't really acting all that rationally. To assume that he would have just run off could have led to someone getting killed.

[/quoteWyldHrt ,please don't take this the wrong way....but if I'm ever on trial for manslaughter....I want you on my jury.Just playing devils advocate here...but we know nothing of what happened here ,other than what Orion has told us...and yet it is all being discussed as if this version is written in stone.


_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 9:50:00 PM   
Kimveri


Posts: 783
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
A gun is a far more more deadly and efficient killing machine than any of the examples you mentioned.


Sorry, you're wrong. It's the human that is the 'efficient killing machine'.

If his efficiency is not satisfactory to him he will damn well find ways to improve it. But regardless of his creative means of improving his efficiency, it's the human who does the killing. It's the human who has been doing the killing since the first authority attempted to make a 'law' against it....carved in stone with ten others....wayyyyyyyyyyyyy before there were any guns.

~K

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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 9:50:44 PM   
Peregrinus1716


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

I am going to put this here as it will wind up political. Please excuse my writing this morning, as I have been up since 3:45 am.

I live in a 3 br 2 ba single story with a full basement. It slopes towards the back so that the garage opens into the basement area. The basement is partially finished, about half of it. Down there is the Master Suite (25' x 13') that I have built for myself. At about 3:45 this morning I woke up to the sound of the garage door opening slowly. I grabbed my .40 cal from the night stand, unlocked the trigger lock, put a clip in, pulled the slide back slowly to put one in the chamber, flipped the safety off, and then went to the door of my bedroom. I listened at the door for a moment, and waited a few seconds until I heard something in the room next to mine, that we use for storage at the moment. I slowly opened the door, leaving the light out to my room, and checked my corners before exiting. Gun raised, I slowly moved down the short hallway, stopped at the doorway to an unfinished room, and checked there, and nothing. I was just moving through the entry way into the basement foyer, when I heard something in the storage room again. I checked the stairs I had to pass, and checked the back door, keeping my back to the wall that the door to the storage room door is perpendicular to. I stepped up to the door, weapon raised, and standing in the room was someone dressed in a bulky dark colored coat (later learned it was navy blue), ski mask, and gloves. They were bent over and looking through some of our storage boxes, and had pulled out a small fireproof safe that was at the bottom. I quick glanced the room, which there are no hiding places from the doorway, and I saw no one else. I aimed my pistol center mass and said "Don't move I have a gun pointed at you." and the person stopped, and slowly stood straight up. Now they were turned mostly away from me, and I could not see their hands. I then told them "slowly raise your hands in the air so I can see them".

At this point my girl had come to the entry way to the basement foyer and asked what was going on. Keeping my eyes on the person I told her to call 911 and tell them I had an intruder at gunpoint. The person still did not raise their hands, and I could not see them. I told them again "Slowly raise your hands in the air so I can see them, and make no sudden moves." There was no waivering in my voice, as I have been in similar situations, but the person did not raise their hands still. I finally said "Look motherfucker if you do not raise your hands I am going to assume you have a weapon and shoot you." The person turned quickly and as they did their right hand was coming up from their waist area, so I fired three times.

They dropped fast, the sound in the enclosed room was load and my ears were ringing. My girl is screaming in the next room, and I moved up slowly to check the person. Blood is pooling up quickly on the concrete floor, and they are laying partly on their side, partly on their back, with their right leg bent under them at the knee. I could not tell if they were breathing, and decided it best not to bend down to check for a pulse. I stepped back and waited. I told my girl to call 911 back and tell them we needed an ambulance and shots had been fired.

It seemed like a very long time, but was only a few minutes I guess, but the cops finally arrived. Of course when they entered they yelled at me to drop my weapon which I did. They secured me, my weapon and checked the perp, who did have a pulse but they said faint. Three shots, two in the chest and one in the abdomen. They searched the guy, and found a .25 cal pistol in his right coat pocket, a straight bladed knife, and burglary tools.

I have been at the Sheriff's station making a report, and the perp is out of surgery but in critical condition. The Sheriff's Dept says no charges will be filed against me, and several against him. A 19 year old white male, that has a record going back years they said. I have been sitting here for an hour, trying to wind down, but if anyone reading this has ever been in a situation like this, you know it takes a while. As I was thinking, I am thankful that I am allowed to own a weapon, that I know how to use a weapon, and that I am a light sleeper.

So to all the gun ban proponents out there, fuck you. I am going to eat, try and relax, and get some sleep. Argue as most of you are likely to do, but I feel better knowing my family was kept safe. I am sure there will be second guessing on things to do, I have been sitting here myself and doing that, but regardless the outcome is better than what it could have been,

the only thing i see wrong with your actions is that at least in my state the police have advised us to empty the clip especially if we have military trainning because they are likely to argue that it was not self defense if it is controlled. Not a veiw point i like but something i figured i'd mention don't know if it works in the rest of the usa

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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 10:01:49 PM   
InvisibleBlack


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Well shit, I didn't know that.

It's only 151 deaths of children due to accidental firearm discharge. 

Practically a drop in the bucket.

No worries.

Unless it is your child.



I agree with you that losing a child is a tragedy beyond words. I in no way attempted to trivialize child fatalities. I find your sarcasm somewhat disingenuous.

Are you suggesting that the primary focus of reducing child fatalities should be accidental firearm discharge and that the most time, effort and attention should be spent on attempting to save the 2-3 one thousandth's of 1% of children who will likely die this year due to this rather than focusing on the much greater causes of child fatality such as motor-vehicle accidents, disease, drowning, poisoning or even firearm-related homicides (which are mostly due to gang-related activities)?

Or are you attempting to use a particularly heart-rending situation as an emotional appeal to ignore the statistics on the matter in an attempt to forward a point of your own?

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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 10:03:11 PM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

WyldHrt ,please don't take this the wrong way....but if I'm ever on trial for manslaughter....I want you on my jury.

No, you don't.
quote:

Just playing devils advocate here...but we know nothing of what happened here ,other than what Orion has told us...and yet it is all being discussed as if this version is written in stone.

Just like every other thread here, all we have to go on is what the OP has said.


_____________________________

"MotherFUCKER!" is NOT a safeword!!"- Steel
"We've had complaints about 'orgy noises'. This is not the neighborhood for that kind of thing"- PVE Cop

Resident "Hypnotic Eyes", "Cleavage" and "Toy Whore"
Subby Mafia, VAA Posse & Team Troll!

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 459
RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 10:03:23 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Peregrinus1716



"the only thing i see wrong with your actions is that at least in my state the police have advised us to empty the clip especially if we have military trainning because they are likely to argue that it was not self defense if it is controlled. Not a veiw point i like but something i figured i'd mention don't know if it works in the rest of the usa"

The "policed have advised" heh?Is that the official departmental policy....or is that something Joe the cop up the block advised?Just what state is this?

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 12/8/2009 10:04:52 PM >


_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Peregrinus1716)
Profile   Post #: 460
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