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RE: Punishment - 3/16/2006 4:25:38 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		Hmmm...begging for a beating...interesting concept lol.

With the men that I have been with...beatings ( not to be confused with abuse ) were a normal occurance. If that is how they felt at a particular time...then that is what they did. Now, being a masochist, AND having a nasty temper myself, times like that were a huge release of anger for ME...almost like therapy. The more brutal the beating, the more anger I let out, the better I felt after.

Now, I shudder to think what would have happened if I had BEGGED or ASKED for that beating. I doubt very much it would have been pleasurable on my end. In any way.

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If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Punishment - 3/16/2006 4:33:53 PM   
Takethiswaltz


Posts: 199
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		Is ANY KIND of punishment necessary between two adults in a d/s relationship?

I would think that discussion of whatever is misunderstood or disagreeable would be enough. If the two parties are committed to working through it, then the effort to remove the source of disagreement will occur. Otherwise, time to move on.

"punishing" a partner because you are displeased is a common theme and rarely affords growth for BOTH PARTIES. Vanilla folks punish each other all the time.

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Punishment - 3/16/2006 5:20:29 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

What do you consider effective punishment? Of course this depends on the individuals involved, but what's worked for you as a dominant, and what's worked on you, as a submissive?

Level


In all the time that I have known my Lord I have yet to be punished for anything or to do anything so wrong that he thinks punishment is necessary. Punishment is not part of our dynamic. I behave in the manner he expects because that is what I want to do and not because otherwise I will be punished.

Is there such a thing as "effective punishment"? What is the goal of punishment? Is it to correct a negative behavior, is it just a negative consequence to a behavior, is it a way to balance the score or is it a tool to bring closure to a moment so you can move past it? Why is punishment needed or wanted between two consenting adults?

More questions than answers....

Knight's kyra



_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Punishment - 3/16/2006 5:35:47 PM   
littlesarbonn


Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline 		Punishment is always a weird thing for me. In a fantasy construct, whatever she wants to do to me is always what I hope that I can endure. If it's because I've done something wrong, it bothers me more than the punishment because unlike some others, I don't strive to be punished for failure. I strive to make her happy with me, and punishment for such a failure means I have failed her in some way that I wish I could have done better.

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Punishment - 3/16/2006 6:37:10 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		This fellow sounds like a genuine sub. Dommes, why aren't you all over him?

(in reply to littlesarbonn)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Punishment - 3/16/2006 6:40:39 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		LOL don't look at me like that takethiswaltz.....i'm the one who opposes punishment...to punish this one for a mistake.. instead of talking to me... i personaly find to be abuse... and won't tolerate being no ones doormat to be beat on because you're not happy with me.. if ones isn't happy with me.. show me the door.. because someone else out there will be.

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to Takethiswaltz)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Punishment - 3/16/2006 7:05:49 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
Some people believe that pain must have a component of punishment to justify it.

The other side sees giving or receiving pain as its own reward. (I'm on this side...........big grin)




_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Punishment - 3/16/2006 7:10:47 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		I personally would not "beat on" or use force as any sort of punishment.......and, from kyra's post, I wonder if I might prefer to call it a "corrective" measure......and I'm thinking that, as some others have said, just speaking to the submissive, letting them know you're disappointed in the action, should have tremendous effect, if the submissive earnestly desires to please the dominant......

I have zero interest in being with a brat, or one that does not know how to behave, so I would hope there would be little if any reason for corrective actions. I believe that if one is a submissive, and wishes to be with me, then they will act accordingly. If they can't, or won't, then they need to go. I have no desire to make them miserable, and I damn sure won't allow them to make me nuts lol.

Level

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Punishment - 3/16/2006 9:07:14 PM   
Takethiswaltz


Posts: 199
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		haha, It's that intense blue eye... makes folks paranoid

Another thought to share. Some doms withhold attention as a means of "punishment".
Is this any different than a vanilla wife withholding "attention" as a means of punishment?
Sometimes is seems to me that we haven't tackled the battle of the sexes here,
just switched gears. Traded in one set of rules for another.

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Punishment - 3/16/2006 10:00:27 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Takethiswaltz

haha, It's that intense blue eye... makes folks paranoid

Another thought to share. Some doms withhold attention as a means of "punishment".
Is this any different than a vanilla wife withholding "attention" as a means of punishment?
Sometimes is seems to me that we haven't tackled the battle of the sexes here,
just switched gears. Traded in one set of rules for another.


lol yep.. i can go along with that.

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to Takethiswaltz)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Punishment - 3/16/2006 10:10:01 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Takethiswaltz

Is ANY KIND of punishment necessary between two adults in a d/s relationship?

I would think that discussion of whatever is misunderstood or disagreeable would be enough. If the two parties are committed to working through it, then the effort to remove the source of disagreement will occur. Otherwise, time to move on.

"punishing" a partner because you are displeased is a common theme and rarely affords growth for BOTH PARTIES. Vanilla folks punish each other all the time.


I really can't comment on your post because you stipulated D/s relationship of which I have no experience in that specific scene. In other areas such as M/s and Gorean, your argument would not hold water. But in the final analysis, people will gravitate to what suits them and needs. Every one has the right to persue what is good for them.. and which ever lifestyle meets their needs.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Takethiswaltz)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Punishment - 3/16/2006 10:15:00 PM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

Those things which make me remember the lesson, rather than the punishment.

Celeste


Well said Celeste, and I couldn't agree more.

Making the punishment fit the lesson is what I try to do on the rare occasion that I've had to punish anyone. I'm never happy when I have to punish a sub. It brings a lot of reflection and introspection for me, and I ask the same of the sub. It's never easy, and I usually don't mete out a punishment until I'm completely cool and collected and never in the heat of the moment.

_____________________________

Tress


"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother


(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Punishment - 3/16/2006 10:19:21 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

Is there such a thing as "effective punishment"?

What is the goal of punishment? Is it to correct a negative behavior, is it just a negative consequence to a behavior, is it a way to balance the score or is it a tool to bring closure to a moment so you can move past it?


I've been punished three times in the last 10 years.

A bit of background to explain one of the punishments and it's purpose. I lived in the same house in the same neighborhood for 15 years before I met Himself. I knew simply everyone on the block and my house was considered the 'Kool Aid' house where all the neighborhood kids hung around with my kids. ::I think because I cooked and fed them:: lol Anyway, I never locked my door. No one in our neighborhood locked their doors. When I first moved in with Himself, in a new state, he, being from New York, 'always' had the door locked. On three separate occasions I forgot to lock that damn door even though he kept reminding me after each time. It was just an unthinking habit which had to be unlearned. The third time I left that door unlocked, he punished me. I don't remember exactly what he did, but I don't forget to lock the front door anymore, so it was effective and the purpose of the punishment was met successfully, which was to get me to lock the front door each time I came in.

quote:

Why is punishment needed or wanted between two consenting adults?


Simply a matter of personal choice. Some want it, some don't.

Celeste

::edited to add a contrasting punishment:: My first Master once took me outside, stripped me naked and sprayed me down with a garden hose, including in my face until I thought I was going to drown. For the life of me, I can't remember what the hell I did to get that punishment, but I'll never forget the punishment itself. That was uneffective.

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 3/16/2006 10:24:48 PM >

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Punishment - 3/16/2006 10:19:40 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

I really can't comment on your post because you stipulated D/s relationship of which I have no experience in that specific scene. In other areas such as M/s and Gorean, your argument would not hold water. But in the final analysis, people will gravitate to what suits them and needs. Every one has the right to persue what is good for them.. and which ever lifestyle meets their needs.


This is true too IronBear, wht i'm finding out day by day though... is what is D/s to one.. is only kink to others. It seems that unless you're 100% BDSM or Gorean.. or anything else other than what people think you should be.. you're nothing. You a kinky sex player who likes to try to use BDSM to fullfill SOME of the kink that you can't get in vanilla sex.. but you are not a submissive ..... nor a slave.... this is where I start questioning things.

Because I think outside the norm of most submissives, and oh yes... most all slaves.. why am I less submissive?

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Punishment - 3/17/2006 2:13:39 AM   
anjlsub


Posts: 1
Joined: 3/17/2006
Status: offline 		I am sexually turned on by discipline and punishment, the harsher and more humiliating, the better. I am also turned on by being forced to do things I honestly do not want to do. I have found that most Doms that I have been involved with do not enjoy forcing a sub or slave or enforcing discipline by means of punishemt, the want a sub or slave who submit willingly.

(in reply to Takethiswaltz)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Punishment - 3/17/2006 3:06:08 AM   
scratchingpost


Posts: 231
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		As a slave i find knowing i let Him down punishes me greater than any paddle could, so when the time comes for that it is almost a relief and lets me know i can stop beating myself up over it. i am often left to feel my guilt for awhile before a punishment because it teaches me more. W/we then communicate about it and this furthers my understanding of how to change a certain behavior (though some are learned faster than others)

When i am on Top with my personal slave, i tend to do the same thing that has been proven effective on me. Then again my toy is very much like me in mindset. (smart ass masochists and devoted just to drive the top nuts and then make Them smile) i also make sure that it is understood i am not angry and try to incorporate a lesson with it.

Punishments are reserved for the bigger things in O/our house that is when kokobu comes out, the little things are disciplines and keep everyone in line.

*note* as far as kokobu goes toy and i do agree on one thing we both want to burn the fucker except because i rather enjoy tormenting him with it more than i hate feeling it i guess we are both s.o.l. (smiles and purrrs)

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Punishment - 3/17/2006 3:34:43 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

I really can't comment on your post because you stipulated D/s relationship of which I have no experience in that specific scene. In other areas such as M/s and Gorean, your argument would not hold water. But in the final analysis, people will gravitate to what suits them and needs. Every one has the right to persue what is good for them.. and which ever lifestyle meets their needs.


This is true too IronBear, wht i'm finding out day by day though... is what is D/s to one.. is only kink to others. It seems that unless you're 100% BDSM or Gorean.. or anything else other than what people think you should be.. you're nothing. You a kinky sex player who likes to try to use BDSM to fullfill SOME of the kink that you can't get in vanilla sex.. but you are not a submissive ..... nor a slave.... this is where I start questioning things.

Because I think outside the norm of most submissives, and oh yes... most all slaves.. why am I less submissive?


Before I say anything about definitions, I'm going to say this: I am not talking about anyone in particular.

Submit: "to yield oneself to the authority or will of another"..... "to defer to or consent to abide by the opinion or authority of another".

Words mean something. We can decide to call ourselves whatever we wish, but that alone does not make it so. I can start saying that my car is purple, but it's still going to be silver.

The problem, at least the way I see it, is that we've put too much of a gold-standard on certain types here. Being a "kinky sex player" is, or should be, a wondeful thing! But too often too many folks look down on it. "It isn't real". Bullshit! It is real, and exciting. Is it submission?? Maybe not...............but so? Life is terribly short, my friends.

Level

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Punishment - 3/17/2006 3:02:53 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		Didn't mean to offend Level, was only wondering out loud again... LOL

But thanks for the response too.

Jessica

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Punishment - 3/17/2006 3:50:45 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

Didn't mean to offend Level, was only wondering out loud again... LOL

But thanks for the response too.

Jessica


Jessica, you did NOT, in any way, shape. or form, offend me *warm smile*. And I love your questions, it's a fine quality.

Level

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Punishment - 3/17/2006 7:20:10 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

What do you consider effective punishment? Of course this depends on the individuals involved, but what's worked for you as a dominant, and what's worked on you, as a submissive?

Level


Effective Punishment is when a State of Reconciliation has been Achieved!


_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 60
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