RE: Saying "He can kill me if he wants to"

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RE: Saying "He can kill me if he wants to" - 12/9/2009 5:18:29 PM

NihilusZero

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

#1

Extreme "internal slavery" that tends to come around to the idea that the Dom/Master can kill the slave if he wants to and the slave is okay with that.

Why do I think it's bad? I have mixed feelings on this...I think that anyone who thinks this way is likely too stupid to live, so in theory I should probably be okay with it, but at the same time it utterly disgusts me that someone can think this way.

Related corollaries tend to be things like "he can break my bones if he wants" or "he can whore me out if he wants" (assuming that the s-type doesn't actually get off on being shared, that they'd 'suffer through it' because the master wanted) or any other form of "he can do things that will damage my body or mind but it's okay because I am his slave and as a slave I have no rights."

I guess that's what it boils down to - the "I have no rights" thing. How can someone so utterly lack self-preservation? IMO "I have no rights" is fine if you're saying, oh I don't know, I can't have coffee without permission or I have to sit where he tells me...but "I have no right to protect myself from serious bodily harm" takes it too far.

Great addition, btw.

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The De-Demonization Thread - 12/9/2009 5:29:52 PM

NihilusZero

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

#1
"Daddy" and animal play as sexualized roles

Here's one I can chime in with to add to the examples:

"Daddy" and animal play as sexualized roles

When I've related to this, it has dealt with animal play, specifically kitten-play. For me, it's not so much a 'role' thing as just a manifestation of a person's traits and reactions. There are non-controllable things like wether her facial features or body structure just kind of exudes a feline aura and then there are more overt things like lithe movements and stretching in a very cat-like fashion.

To me, the sexuality isn't related to the person being an animal, but to the animalistic qualities the person has. From the contented, glassy-eyed purr if I'm playing with her hair to the soft mews if she's feeling vulnerable to the impish pouncing whenever she's in a playful mood.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 12/9/2009 5:30:20 PM >

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RE: Saying "He can kill me if he wants to" - 12/9/2009 5:31:50 PM

Lucienne

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One strike you're out - M/s relationship

I've seen some people around here talk about disobedient slaves in terms of - if the slave disobeys, the slave is out the door. I think more practical people work around this seemingly rigid standard by not asking their slave to do something they think the slave might refuse to do. But others take a purist approach - their slave will obey their every order or they will no longer be their slave, no exceptions.

I'd be curious to hear from either a Master or slave perspective their positive experience of a one-strike you're out relationship, after the strike.

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RE: The De-Demonization Thread - 12/9/2009 5:33:11 PM

breatheasone

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

VERY good idea that will never work.

allthatjazz, Elisabella and Hierodule have made it work quite well so far. It work so long as people (if they're interested) contribute instead of mentioning the ways in which contribution will not happen.

i meant no disrespect, its just that i have seen MANY MANY people ask for, and earnestly try to have NON- confrontational discussions about different kinks, and it ALWAYS turns out in a insult for insult match.

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RE: The De-Demonization Thread - 12/9/2009 5:39:13 PM

NihilusZero

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quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

i meant no disrespect, its just that i have seen MANY MANY people ask for, and earnestly try to have NON- confrontational discussions about different kinks, and it ALWAYS turns out in a insult for insult match.

None taken.

Now contribute!

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RE: Saying "He can kill me if he wants to" - 12/9/2009 6:17:25 PM

LadyPact

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

One strike you're out - M/s relationship

I've seen some people around here talk about disobedient slaves in terms of - if the slave disobeys, the slave is out the door. I think more practical people work around this seemingly rigid standard by not asking their slave to do something they think the slave might refuse to do. But others take a purist approach - their slave will obey their every order or they will no longer be their slave, no exceptions.

I'd be curious to hear from either a Master or slave perspective their positive experience of a one-strike you're out relationship, after the strike.

In some areas, I'm an M in a one strike and your out dynamic.

What you call rigid, I call standards. There are a lot of vanilla people out there who would say that if their SO cheated on them or hit them not in a BDSM context, they would be out the door. There would be no second chance for their partner to cheat on them again or to abuse them in some way. In fact, if MP would do these things in our vanilla marriage, that would be the end of our relationship.

One strike is all that is needed in certain areas in M/s, in My way of thinking. There are certain things that I won't tolerate in a M/s, or even a D/s dynamic in certain areas. Willful disobedience is one and lack of proper protocol, once defined, is another of these areas.

I'm not sure of what you are asking as for a positive reference. I've only had to use the one strike theory with one sub. In that case, he did not adhere to My policy of full disclosure, lied to Me, and was released. We did up being casual, platonic friends, so that can be seen as a positive. However, there was no more D/s dynamic between us.

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RE: Saying "He can kill me if he wants to" - 12/9/2009 6:35:07 PM

breatheasone

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Ignoring or cutting off communication with no warning or explanation (ie, fell off the face of the earth) as a punishment.

To me this has got to be the #1 most abusive thing someone can do to a person they claim to care about.

The s-type fucks, the D-type may or may not point out the fuck up. And then days go by NOT ONE WORD FROM THE D-type....the s-type is in panic.

This is just SO SO fucked up in my world...of course ymmv

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RE: Saying "He can kill me if he wants to" - 12/9/2009 8:32:24 PM

AlexandraLynch

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Forcing a submissive to do something that is against a very basic part of them, such as their sexual orientation. While I am bisexual, I would never ever require a straight female sub or a gay male sub to have sex with me. I also put religion and political orientation there; I don't tell my subs what deity they need to worship (or if they need one at all) or tell them how they're going to vote. At a certain point, I see it as about having a deep respect for the humanity of the other person, no matter what game we may be playing.

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RE: Saying "He can kill me if he wants to" - 12/9/2009 10:54:52 PM

Hierodule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlexandraLynch
I don't tell my subs what deity they need to worship (or if they need one at all) or tell them how they're going to vote. At a certain point, I see it as about having a deep respect for the humanity of the other person, no matter what game we may be playing.

Positive: I see this as another facet of the "he can kill me if he wants" EI issue.I am in an M/s relationship not a D/s relationship. I don't see our relationship as a game. I see it as my life. He has told me that as soon as I move in with him I will be attending Mass every Sunday. I consider myself an atheist but I was raised Catholic. I had all the early sacraments but refused confirmation, which is the time when teenagers become Catholics by their own choice.

When I accepted his collar I promised to obey him in all things without question. It took awhile get to the point where I felt could make that promise. But now that I made it, its final. If he wants me to go to church with him I will go to church with him. I will even sing, I told him that I don't feel comfortable taking communion becasue I respect the ritual and know too much about it to eat the bread without truly believing it is the body of Christ. I think its hypocritical to do so. He respects this. He has not commanded me to believe in a higher power (beyond his

) or to confirm myself as a Catholic, only to go to Mass with him. I really can't say no unless I want to give the collar back. I will go I will smile and I might even enjoy it. The pageantry always appealed to me and there is a certain nostalgia in it.

The vote part scares me a little. He doesn't strike me as the kind of person who would tell me who to vote for. I think it would be harder for me to vote for someone I don't support than it would be for me to go to church. I guess we will cross that bridge when we come to it.

< Message edited by Hierodule -- 12/9/2009 10:56:32 PM >

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RE: Saying "He can kill me if he wants to" - 12/9/2009 11:10:20 PM

breatheasone

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hierodule

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlexandraLynch
I don't tell my subs what deity they need to worship (or if they need one at all) or tell them how they're going to vote. At a certain point, I see it as about having a deep respect for the humanity of the other person, no matter what game we may be playing.

Positive: I see this as another facet of the "he can kill me if he wants" EI issue.I am in an M/s relationship not a D/s relationship. I don't see our relationship as a game. I see it as my life. He has told me that as soon as I move in with him I will be attending Mass every Sunday. I consider myself an atheist but I was raised Catholic. I had all the early sacraments but refused confirmation, which is the time when teenagers become Catholics by their own choice.

When I accepted his collar I promised to obey him in all things without question. It took awhile get to the point where I felt could make that promise. But now that I made it, its final. If he wants me to go to church with him I will go to church with him. I will even sing, I told him that I don't feel comfortable taking communion becasue I respect the ritual and know too much about it to eat the bread without truly believing it is the body of Christ. I think its hypocritical to do so. He respects this. He has not commanded me to believe in a higher power (beyond his ) or to confirm myself as a Catholic, only to go to Mass with him. I really can't say no unless I want to give the collar back. I will go I will smile and I might even enjoy it. The pageantry always appealed to me and there is a certain nostalgia in it.

The vote part scares me a little. He doesn't strike me as the kind of person who would tell me who to vote for. I think it would be harder for me to vote for someone I don't support than it would be for me to go to church. I guess we will cross that bridge when we come to it.

< Message edited by breatheasone -- 12/9/2009 11:11:03 PM >

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RE: The De-Demonization Thread - 12/9/2009 11:35:14 PM

aldompdx

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And, consider the difference between tolerance and acceptance.

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RE: The De-Demonization Thread - 12/10/2009 3:29:46 AM

MsMillgrove

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#1
"Daddy" and animal play as sexualized roles

Will try to give this a shot. Since I have a family that includes both a Daddy Dom and his daughter and a pony with only positive experiences with all.
Disclaimer--the pony is a show pony--a girl. we don't sexualize. If I had a rl male pony who carried me about, as I do online, then it would be sexualized.

The daughter of the daddy feels security and safety with him. She feels pampered and happy. If he likes to have sex with her, this is fine because he isn't her actual daddy. That is the beauty of the age-play, incest play thing. You KNOW the person is not a child, you KNOW they are NOT your real parent, or child.
You are therefore free to do the things that are forbidden, you're free to express sexual feelings you have that are not acceptable in any society. That would be horrendous, if you indulged in a real way. No one is picturing their real parent or child in these moments.

I would happily have sex with ponies but it would be very uncomfortable and upsetting to them, they cannot consent. My dog too. i had a dog that was a total lover boy, he and I used to have great discussions about sex. However, I am not going to live out these fantasies with real animals--it's cruel, physically dangerous and possibly icky.

However, the characteristics are what's appealing.. and when a human "becomes" an animal, they manifest those exciting characterists, those sexually stimulating
facets like lots of hair, (fur) rippling muscles, tensed strength, strong earthy smells. Oooh it's way hot. Why would you not want to be valued for your animalistic side, or engage your senses in this way with a beloved human "pet".

Gosh I better go get a glass of cold water, I overheated on this one. Hope it helps.

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RE: The De-Demonization Thread - 12/10/2009 4:07:28 AM

DesFIP

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This sounds good in theory but this is online. We don't know if we're seeing something positive or we're seeing a sub post what she was told to, or that her owner is posting under her name to make us think everything's peachy keen.

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RE: The De-Demonization Thread - 12/10/2009 4:37:32 AM

ranja

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#1 snarky people with little room for a bit of fun... fantasy or real life

because i find it boring, stifling and depressing especially
when a person starts talking asif they are plural like everybody here agrees with them

#2 Daddies and animals

i like calling my Husband Daddy sometimes... and He allows me to sometimes... because we think its hot... because it turns us on... we are perverted that way!
i also like to be a pig or a bitch sometimes... because... it turns us on... we are perverted that way!!! oink oink
i find it astonishing that there are people who have problems getting their head around animal stuff yet many here put such value on wearing a dog collar.

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RE: The De-Demonization Thread - 12/10/2009 5:35:44 AM

Lucienne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

#1 snarky people with little room for a bit of fun... fantasy or real life

because i find it boring, stifling and depressing especially
when a person starts talking asif they are plural like everybody here agrees with them

Um... snark is fun. Perhaps you're looking for a different word? Or working with a different definition of snark?

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RE: The De-Demonization Thread - 12/10/2009 5:50:38 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

#1 snarky people with little room for a bit of fun... fantasy or real life

because i find it boring, stifling and depressing especially
when a person starts talking asif they are plural like everybody here agrees with them

Um... snark is fun. Perhaps you're looking for a different word? Or working with a different definition of snark?

I believe the thread is about putting your ideas out there so people can offer reasoning behind why they do what they do, not to give examples.
Maybe you could explain why 'snark' is fun to you, so that the people who don't get it, can better understand it?

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RE: The De-Demonization Thread - 12/10/2009 6:45:03 AM

starshineowned

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Greetings..

1. I can not honestly state that I feel "anything" is bad. There are a good deal of things that I personally would not like to be subjected to simply because it does not produce a good mental/emotional response from me when talked about. This doesn't always mean it has to be something viewed as gross, wrong or taboo. Example: I would be just as negatively impacted by being made to eat shit as I would being made to sky dive. It isn't what the moral majority deems as perverted or taboo but the response it facilitates upon me personally.

2. This will have to cover just about anything to include the above mentioned. I chose to give up that right to decide for myself what was good or bad. Not that I couldn't play along with society or the moral majority to determine that but because it felt false. I am not evil by the understandings of it nor am I good. I do however have both within me, and to deny one for reasons that truly were not my own just seemed false. What I did lack though was the ability to break free of that, and explore all of me..the real me, and this was impossible to me unless I had someone else who demanded from me nothing less than the real me, and was willing and wanting this for themselves as well.

It was nothing more than a search for freedom to be, explore, accept or deny the real us as humans from all facets, and together as Master/slave gave us that base or bond to do exactly that.

As far as the embolden topics thus far we've explored either individually or together in some fashion and have derived from those experiences as to what is really us or not. I won't go explicit on each one because it really is just another opinion thrown out there that will either be accepted, understood, or denied entirely which is nothing more than we already do on these forums.

What I will say though is that we as Master/slave do not hold anything from what is accepted normal societal behavior "be it listed as responsible or not" on high but we do accept completely the responsibility for our departure from the norm.

Maybe not what your looking for ..but there it is.

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RE: The De-Demonization Thread - 12/10/2009 6:49:46 AM

Mercnbeth

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1. willing to submit and give up ownership to their control, but at the same time they wouldn't accept every idea and wish that passed their Dom's/Dommes' kinky imagination.

(from the doormat thread, since SlayerZ had no response when this slave crafted a response to the statement above which, to her, would be an impossible oxymoron to live each day)

why use such words like "submit and give up ownership to their control" to describe your relationship dynamic, when you participate in a relationship in which you retain the authority to deny your "owner", if that is what you so choose...and your "owner" wants their wishes to be considered and either permitted or denied, situationally? entering into a relationship where both parties have an equal say in what goes on, backed up by the law of the land~doesn't strike this slave as being D/s or M/s or Owner/owned...it sounds like the conventional way to structure a relationship...so why bother to call it D/s or M/s or Owner/owned?

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RE: The De-Demonization Thread - 12/10/2009 6:59:09 AM

ranja

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

#1 snarky people with little room for a bit of fun... fantasy or real life

because i find it boring, stifling and depressing especially
when a person starts talking asif they are plural like everybody here agrees with them

Um... snark is fun. Perhaps you're looking for a different word? Or working with a different definition of snark?

Lucienne... your English is tonnes better than mine... and as i found previous our sense of humour is vastly different too...
and as i'm approaching 'the change' my cycle is distorted and my suffering pmt is horrendous... apologies for erratic writings

Anyway... this is the dictionary i work with
snarky: sarcastically critical or mocking and malicious

to me not very funny... but of course you are not me

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RE: The De-Demonization Thread - 12/10/2009 7:11:19 AM

wisdomtogive

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Topping from the bottom through telling your Dom these are things i can accept and these are things i cannot accept.

This is one area that has brought me a lot of confusion. If you are going to be a submissive or a slave to someone, then isn't it topping from the bottom with a list of limits and conditions on how you will be treated as their s-type?

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