MsMillgrove
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Joined: 5/27/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wisdomtogive
1. Topping from the bottom through telling your Dom these are things i can accept and these i cannot not accept.
MsMilgrove thank you for responding. In this I would like to ask the following:
2. Is it topping from the bottom when you inform your Dom., after ownership what punishments, play and everything else you can and cannot accept?
I believe it is different from submissive and a slave point of view, but i am not sure. I cannot understand why a s-type would set up rules for how they want to be treated in a M/s or D/s relationship. I do understand letting your Dom know how something felt is a strong and positive tool, especially for a Dom. Yet to say, don't do this to me again, would be taking back your control. This confuses me.
I hope this is understandable. Have had a flare up of fibromyalgia, and am in the classic fog that goes with it.
Will try to reply hoping I do understand. I think we're still on that difference between sub and slave. Will give an example (and remember this is just my understanding of how many people make a distinction between slave and sub, not eveyone will think the same, but it is not a minority view point.)
A slave has erred, he must be disciplined--corrected so that he does not do this again. Consequences. Now the slave cannot refuse the punishment. He bows the head, and accepts.
A sub has erred, he must be disciplined. The punishment is explained to the sub. At that point the sub could refuse to accept the punishment. He has that right of refusal. Possibly he has a reason to refuse which the dom had not considered when formulating the punishment. Now it's up to the dom to rethink. Should he/she revise? This is dicey, it can fall under "feedback" or "communication". If the sub has strong negative feelings about the punishment, or the deserving of same, he probably should speak up. That is the dynamic of dom/sub.
Here's where the topping can start--the sub frequently objects either to the means of correction or the need for correction. Once a steady pattern of negotiation on correction starts up, then there is a problem. Either the dom really is unreasonable in expectations, maybe overly harsh or the sub is topping. Assuming you have a good dom, it's the sub topping. After efforts in counseling on the part of the dom, if the behavior continues, the relationship is likely to be terminated.
I know, for example, of a situation between two leather men, where the slave could not accept the master's corrections, he found them too harsh. The master was willing to let the slave move out of that position into more of a favored pet spot, becoming a "boy" instead. The severity and frequency of correction diminished because expectations had been reduced. They both felt more comfortable with the new arrangement.
This topping from the bottom has to be worked out between the two individuals according to the dynamics of their own relationship. What flies with one dom or master, doesn't go over well with another.
If a sub has never had the face slapped and the dom uses this as a means of correction, and the sub feels frightened and abused, yes, it's very fair for her to say to the Dom, 'I can't take it, please don't do it again, here's why..."
This is a bit like children and food preferences. It's fair to let them have a short list of nevers, but the list should not constantly change, it should not balloon from five items to fifty. The give and take between authority and submission usually stays within reason.
If you personally feel that you do not want negotiations, that you don't want to"explain", you prefer to show your devotion by complete obedience, then perhaps you have a "slave heart". You're better off arranging to be a slave, rather than a sub. And btw. this is just a convenient line drawn between two categories--in reality it's more of a continuum with people placed all along the spectrum. This is why when people say they are a slave to me, I want to be very clear about what they mean by that. Some who use that descriptor are closer to the sub definition.
I am sharing my personal view of what constitutes topping from the bottom. Anyone looking for a potential master or dom, should discuss their understanding of the d/s relationship, before involving in one, so both halves of the duo are on the same page. That's what the period of consideration means to me--a time to explore these important issues to see if both are comfortable with one another.
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