RE: Blackwater Guards Tied to Secret Raids by the C.I.A.

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Blackwater Guards Tied to Secret Raids by the C.I.A.

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Blackwater Guards Tied to Secret Raids by the C.I.A.

Page: << < prev 1 [2]

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Blackwater Guards Tied to Secret Raids by the C.I.A. - 12/11/2009 10:37:36 AM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

well,

Lafayette, Fredrick William, Baron de Woedtke, Gustave Rosenthal, Friedrich Wilhelm von Stueben, the Hmong, Al-queda, against Russia in the Russian Afghan conflict as well, we are hiring sunnis in Iraq, against Castro................

and the stuff now.

Ron (sad but true).

Ah...Ron feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but...the Revolutionary figures you cite were hired to give a professional helping hand to what was a ragtag collection of civilians in the process of being formed into an Army.
The Hmong were an indigenous peoples with their own dog in the fight.
Al-queda also motivated by something more than money were fighting with or without our financial support....they were not hired in place of American forces.
Hiring sunnis in Irag...again an indigenous peoples where we used financial enticement to futher sharpen and aim so to speak there efforts.
against Castro.....again you are referring to the use of indigenous peoples(some form other latin American countries to be sure...but still a dog in the hunt if you catch my meaning)
This conversation has to do with using mercs instead of and alongside of American military/intelligence personnal.Not the same thing as arming indigenous forces to fight what is essentially their own wars.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 21

RE: Blackwater Guards Tied to Secret Raids by the C.I.A. - 12/11/2009 10:37:46 AM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Privatizing war will go down as one of Bush's biggest blunders....
Continuing, and escalating, under the current administration: The Obama administration is using mercenaries with the firm formerly known as Blackwater to kidnap and assassinate high value targets in Pakistan, according to a published report. The program, operated out of the US Joint Special Operations Command, "is so 'compartmentalized' that senior figures within the Obama administration and the US military chain of command may not be aware of its existence," an unnamed source with direct knowledge of the program told The Nation reporter Jeremy Scahill.

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Look at it this way - if the prior administration put out to bid the 'Kill Saddam' job and it came it at $1 Billion; not only would it have been cost saving, but all the ongoing angst would have been eliminated.

A bit shallow in the analysis, merc, unless you are willing to let the chips fall as they pleased to fill the vacuum.
You'll have to document to what you are referencing by your 'shallow' comment in order for me to respond.

As a macro - whatever 'vacuum' or where the chips fall; can be addressed with another job going out to bid. The point would be to not deploy a few hundred thousand troops, incurring both the fiscal and political cost, when a group of 10 or 20 well trained and motivated individuals could accomplish the same thing.

I think you understood my "shallow analysis" comment. But in case not, the point is that the vast majority of the cost of Iraq was not taking out SH, it was attempting to prevent the chaos in the area that would ensue. So, yes, put another job out to bid....and imo the total cost of those jobs will be about the same as the cost of O.I.F.

It can be debated whether a standing army or hiring mercenaries is more cost effective on its own merits, without the simplistic "10 or 20 men plus another bid" argument.

I don't think the cost differences would be material, and I don't think its very easy to reason out which is more cost effective. One aspect of mercenary armies, for example, is that most of the members have already had extensive training in the military and/or police. That cost needs to be attributed to the privatization solution. Another is technology. When you have a DoD that is responsible for both the lives of a standing army and developing military technology, the funding of the latter is much easier to obtain than it would be if the technology is in support of mercenaries, because of the "fuck em they knew what they were getting into" attitude that would likely prevail. Deprive the mercenaries of the technology and you need more of them, and the more labor intensive any business is the more it costs.

I think there is definite appeal to at least partial privatization of certain missions from a strategic/policy pov. I'm not sure that in reality cost is part of that appeal.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 12/11/2009 10:45:00 AM >

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 22

RE: Blackwater Guards Tied to Secret Raids by the C.I.A. - 12/11/2009 10:47:04 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

mike, a mercenary is a mercenary. If the dogs hunting was an issue, then they would have been baying hot on the heels of the evil ones before we waltzed in the door. Instead of the names we'ed be calling them we would now refer to them as 'insurgents'.

LOL, sad but true.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 23

RE: Blackwater Guards Tied to Secret Raids by the C.I.A. - 12/11/2009 10:52:27 AM

AnimusRex

Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
We are at 'peace keeping' and 'government transition' in Iraq.

We are at 'converting hearts & minds' in Afghanistan.

Where are those jobs referenced in the mission statement for any branch of the military?

I agree with you here- the older I get, the more I admire the wisdom of the Founding Fathers- they specifically made a point that the nation should not go to war without the affirmative assent of the citizens, in a declaration of war.

Since Korea, we have seen the Executive Branch slyly usurp this, in going to war with nothing more than unilateral executive orders and resolutions.
What makes this so harmful, is that the original intent was that war is so destructive, and so momentous a decision, that the Founders wanted to make sure that the American people were really on board with it, ready to sacrifice their sons for it.
Presidents since Truman have forgotten this; its why Vietnam was such a fiasco- the American people were never really on board with it- the same with Iraq/ A-stan/ P-stan; the American people are only lukewarm in their support for this war, and yet the President is committing us to what might be another decade of fighting.

This doesn't guarantee failure, but makes failure much more likely.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 24

RE: Blackwater Guards Tied to Secret Raids by the C.I.A. - 12/11/2009 10:52:34 AM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

And yet still wholly different from hiring for profit mercenaries and turning America's conflicts into a profit making enterprise for private business entities.Entities that employ the use of lobbyists and can therefore influence the very decision to enter into a conflict!
edited due to poor typing which in turn magnifies and shines a light on my poor spelling :)

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 12/11/2009 11:12:41 AM >

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 25

RE: Blackwater Guards Tied to Secret Raids by the C.I.A. - 12/11/2009 10:53:33 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

I think you understood my "shallow analysis" comment. But in case not, the point is that the vast majority of the cost of Iraq was not taking out SH, it was attempting to prevent the chaos in the area that would ensue.

A shallow response - How's that working out?

I'd also argue that the way Saddam was taken out contributed to the chaos. Hell, Jimmy Carter did a better job taking out the Shah. Sure chaos ensued, but his goal was achieved, he orchestrated taking out the regime in place without a shot.

As that example indicates a stated policy to use similar surgical endeavors, with or without involving assassinations, can serve to be a more effective deterrent than any saber rattling. I'd make an argument that less 'hearts & minds' would need a converting epiphany without the locals having to see a massive US military presence occupying their country.

To your other point - training. Where did I point to a mercenary force replacing a standing US military, or that military training would end? Are you saying that the existing training is worthless? Currently many of those trainees are gone as soon as they survive their tours. Are you also saying that right now, the best pilots don't bolt for an airline job, or that great thinking military men don't leave after their tour is up? I think the best recruiting job for mercenaries is being done right now with the 'rules of engagement' being employed in Afghanistan.

quote:

It can be debated whether a standing army or hiring mercenaries is more cost effective on its own merits, without the simplistic "10 or 20 men plus another bid" argument.

One thing that can't be debated. Those that sign up as a mercenary know their job going in.

However, I must say, I'm impressed by the support of the ongoing wars and maintaining the status quo! Admirable patriotism!

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 26

RE: Blackwater Guards Tied to Secret Raids by the C.I.A. - 12/11/2009 11:06:10 AM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

To your other point - training. Where did I point to a mercenary force replacing a standing US military, or that military training would end? Are you saying that the existing training is worthless? Currently many of those trainees are gone as soon as they survive their tours. Are you also saying that right now, the best pilots don't bolt for an airline job, or that great thinking military men don't leave after their tour is up? I think the best recruiting job for mercenaries is being done right now with the 'rules of engagement' being employed in Afghanistan.

No, you misunderstand me. I am addressing strictly the cost to accomplish the same mission of privatization vs a standing military. The existing training is very valuable and my point was that the cost of that valuable training of eventual mercenaries by a standing army has to be partially allocated to the private army when you are doing the "bookkeeping", just as the training commercial pilots received in the military should be accounted for in the social value of the military.

Im not sure where the Rules of Engagement are a tool for recruiting mercenaries, they are just a recipe for failure in Afghanistan. I don't think that the response to that failure will be to send mercenaries in. I think the response will eventually have to be what we should be doing now ...fight to win using our strategic advantages... without wasting the lives and money of a half assed approach in the meantime.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 27

RE: Blackwater Guards Tied to Secret Raids by the C.I.A. - 12/11/2009 11:16:09 AM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

I think those Blackwater contractors in Iraq were making about $20k per month each.
Anyone know?

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 28

RE: Blackwater Guards Tied to Secret Raids by the C.I.A. - 12/11/2009 11:28:06 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

Im not sure where the Rules of Engagement are a tool for recruiting mercenaries, they are just a recipe for failure in Afghanistan.

I am giving my personal perspective and what would be my reaction to having to be a soldier under those 'rules'. If I had joined the military having the ambition to be, or identified myself as a 'career soldier', I'm gone at the end of my enlistment and signing on board with a mercenary group such as 'Blackwater'. I'm risking my life! I'm not going to volunteer to do it with one hand tied behind my back as these 'rules' require.

quote:

I don't think that the response to that failure will be to send mercenaries in. I think the response will eventually have to be what we should be doing now ...fight to win using our strategic advantages... without wasting the lives and money of a half assed approach in the meantime.

I don't think either party or any administration will ever let our deployed troops do, as you suggest, "fight to win".

One of the key reasons for that is because of something brought up - PACS. They contribute to candidates of both parties. It serves them to have an army deployed. PACS contribute more now to insure a stalemate or ongoing deployment than any task assigned contracted group could ever influence. A military PAC would hate this idea. They generate their income by the deployment of hundreds of thousands - not a small mercenary group.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 29

RE: Blackwater Guards Tied to Secret Raids by the C.I.A. - 12/11/2009 12:18:06 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

I don't think either party or any administration will ever let our deployed troops do, as you suggest, "fight to win".

And I think that it will get to the point where they have no choice, unless of course they take the French alternative.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 30

RE: Blackwater Guards Tied to Secret Raids by the C.I.A. - 12/11/2009 12:26:45 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

I don't think either party or any administration will ever let our deployed troops do, as you suggest, "fight to win".

And I think that it will get to the point where they have no choice, unless of course they take the French alternative.

But it is a matter of the wars they are in, these are 'political' wars, not wars for cause.

Pure ideological politics was what got us in this, not what is right or wrong in the world......not like we were attacked by these fuckers, that's the war we didn't prosecute.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 31

RE: Blackwater Guards Tied to Secret Raids by the C.I.A. - 12/11/2009 12:38:02 PM

luckydawg

Posts: 2448
Joined: 9/2/2009
Status: offline

This could be a very interesting discussion, if we can get past the blatant partisanship.

Animus, I want to thank you for pointing out that the current model of contrator was used in the Balkans, by president Clinton. If I had pointed that out, a gang of trolls would have attacked.

The usualls are trying to say that Bush started the use of contractors, which simply isn't true.

(side not to Mnot, Carter is the one who started cutting checks to the Mujahadeen (some of whom later became Al queda, while most became the Northern allaince) not Reagan).

But you also are grabbing at Ideology to say that it is since Truman/Korea that war with out declaration by congress began. That is not even close to being reality based.

President Washington (whom I consider to be a Founding Father) never got a declaration of war for the Conquest of Ohio. Jefferson never got a declaration to go clean out the barbary Pirates. None of the Indian wars were declared.

Adams and Madison also sent out the troops with no Declaration of War.

"On at least 125 occasions, the President has acted without prior express military authorization from Congress.[4] These include instances in which the United States fought in Korea in 1950, the Philippine-American War from 1898-1903, and in Nicaragua in 1927.

The United States' longest war was fought between approximately 1840 and 1886 against the Apache Nation. During that entire 46-year period, there were never more than 90 days of "peace."

The Indian Wars comprise at least 28 conflicts and engagements. These began with Europeans immigration to North America, long before the establishment of the United States. For the purpose of this discussion, the Indian Wars are defined as conflicts with the United States of America. They begin as one front in the American Revolutionary War in 1775 and are generally agreed upon as concluding with the surrender of the Apache chief Geronimo in 1886."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States

_____________________________

I was posting as Right Wing Hippie, but that account got messed up.

(in reply to AnimusRex)

Post #: 32

RE: Blackwater Guards Tied to Secret Raids by the C.I.A. - 12/11/2009 12:43:09 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Uck,

(side not to Mnot, Carter is the one who started cutting checks to the Mujahadeen (some of whom later became Al queda, while most became the Northern allaince) not Reagan).

Hear you, but as usual, don't believe that is an accurate portrayal:

both did fund, agreed. if starting is bad and continuing with much more serious funding and weaponry not...thats a problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_policy_of_the_Ronald_Reagan_administration

since you quote wiki so will I, start reading under the chapter heading, Cold War

but that isn't the only source, just a quick one.

Ron

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 12/11/2009 1:08:41 PM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to luckydawg)

Post #: 33

RE: Blackwater Guards Tied to Secret Raids by the C.I.A. - 12/11/2009 12:43:16 PM

luckydawg

Posts: 2448
Joined: 9/2/2009
Status: offline

OR to put it more visually, out of this list of Wars the USA has fought, only 5 were formally declared.
18th Century
American Revolutionary War, 1775 – 1783
Boston campaign, 1775 - 1776
Canadian Theatre, 1775 - 1776
New York and New Jersey campaign, 1776 - 1777
Saratoga Campaign, 1777
Philadelphia Campaign, 1777 - 1778
Western Theatre, 1775 - 1782
Northern Theater, 1778 - 1781
Southern Theatre, 1775 - 1782
Northwest Indian War, 1785 - 1795
Quasi-War, France, 1798 – 1800
[edit] 19th Century
First Barbary War, 1801 – 1805
War of 1812, 1812 – 1815
Tecumseh's Rebellion, 1811 - 1813
Lake Champlain Campaign, 1812 - 1814
Niagara Campaign, 1812 - 1814
Detroit Campaign, 1812 - 1814
Chesapeake Campaign, 1813 - 1814
Creek War, 1813 - 1814
Peoria War, 1813
Southern Campaign,
Second Barbary War, 1815
First Seminole War, 1817 - 1818
Winnebago War, 1827
Black Hawk War, 1832
First Sumatran Expedition, 1832
Battle of Quallah Battoo, 1832
Second Seminole War, 1835 - 1842
Second Sumatran Expedition, 1838
Bombardment of Quallah Battoo, 1838
Bombardment of Muckie, 1838
Mexican-American War, 1846 – 1848
Texas Campaign, 1846
Bear Flag Revolt, California, 1846
Arizona Campaign, 1846
Mexican Campaign, 1846 - 1848
Navajo Wars, 1846 - 1863
Cayuse War, 1847 - 1855
Apache Wars, 1851 - 1900
Nicaraguan Expedition, 1854
Bombardment of San Juan del Norte, 1854
Kansas War, 1854 - 1860
Raid on Harpers Ferry, 1859
Third Seminole War, 1855 - 1858
Second Opium War, 1856 - 1859 (time span of U.S. involvement)
Battle of the Pearl River Forts, 1856
Second Battle of Taku Forts, 1859
Utah War, 1857
American Civil War, 1861 – 1865
Union blockade, 1861 - 1865
Eastern Theater, 1861 - 1865
Western Theater, 1861 - 1865
Lower Seaboard Theater, 1861 - 1865
Trans-Mississippi Theater, 1861 - 1865
Dakota Conflict, 1862
Pacific Coast Theater, 1863
Colorado War, 1863 - 1865
Japanese Conflict, 1863 - 1864 (time span of U.S. involvement)
Battle of Shimonoseki Straits, 1863
Shimonoseki Campaign, 1863 - 1864
Formosan Expedition, 1867
Battle of Formosa, 1867
Red Cloud's War, 1866 - 1868
United States expedition to Korea, 1866 - 1871 (time span of U.S. involvement)
Battle of Keupsa Gate, 1866
Battle of Gangwha, 1871
Modoc War, 1872 - 1873
Red River War, 1874 - 1875
Black Hills War, 1876 - 1877
Nez Perce War, 1877
Bannock War, 1878
Cheyenne War, 1878 - 1879
Sheepeater Indian War, 1879
Ute War, 1879-1880
Pine Ridge Campaign, 1890-1891
Battle of Sugar Point, 1898
Spanish-American War, 1898
Cuban Campaign, 1898
Puerto Rican Campaign, 1898
Pacific Campaign, 1898
Second Samoan Civil War, 1899 (time span of U.S. involvement)
Philippine-American War, 1899 - 1913
Battle of Manila (1899), 1899
Moro Rebellion, 1899 - 1913
Boxer Rebellion, China, 1899 - 1901
Peking Campaign, 1900
[edit] 20th Century
Banana Wars, 1907 - 1934
Nicaraguan Conflict, 1907 - 1933 (time span of U.S. involvement)
Hunduras Conflict, 1907 - 1933 (time span of U.S. involvement)
Guatemalan Conflict, 1907 - 1933 (time span of U.S. involvement)
First Panama Conflict, 1908 (time span of U.S. involvement)
Cuban Conflict, 1912 (time span of U.S. involvement)
Haiti Conflict, 1915 - 1934 (time span of U.S. involvement)
First Dominican Republic Conflict, 1917 - 1924 (time span of U.S. involvement)
Mexican Revolution, 1914 - 1918 (time span of U.S. involvement)
Battle of Veracruz, 1914
Battle of Columbus, 1916
Battle of Carrizal, 1916
Battle of Bear Valley, 1918
Battle of Ambos Nogales, 1918
World War I, 1917 – 1918 (time span of U.S. involvement)
European Theatre, 1917 - 1918
First Battle of the Atlantic, 1917-1918
Russian Revolution, 1918 - 1920 (time span of U.S. involvement)
Polar Bear Expedition, 1918 - 1919
Siberian Expedition, 1918 - 1920
World War II, 1941 – 1945 (time span of U.S. involvement)
Second Battle of the Atlantic, 1941 - 1945
Pacific War, 1941 - 1945
African Theatre, 1942 - 1943
European Theatre, 1942 - 1945
Korean War, 1950 - 1953
South Korean Campaign, 1950 - 1953
North Korean Campaign, 1950 - 1953
Lebanon Conflict, 1958 (time span of U.S. involvement)
Operation Blue Bat, 1958
Cuban Conflict, 1961 (time span of U.S. involvement)
Bay of Pigs Invasion, 1961
Vietnam War, 1962 - 1975 (time span of U.S. involvement)
Laotian Civil War, 1962 - 1973
Cambodian Civil War, 1969 - 1970
Second Dominican Republic Conflict, 1965 - 1966
Operation Powerpack, 1965 - 1966
Second Korean War, 1966 - 1976
Contra War, El Salvador, 1981 - 1990
Libya Conflict, 1981 - 1989 (time span of U.S. involvement)
First Action in the Gulf of Sidra, 1981
Second Action in the Gulf of Sidra, 1986
1986 bombing of Libya, 1986
Third Action in the Gulf of Sidra, 1989
Grenada Conflict, 1983 (time span of U.S. involvement)
Operation Urgent Fury, 1983
Iran–Iraq War, 1987 - 1989 (time span of U.S. involvement)
Operation Earnest Will, 1987 - 1988
Operation Prime Chance, 1987 - 1989
Operation Eager Glacier, 1987
Operation Nimble Archer, 1987
Operation Praying Mantis, 1988
Second Panama Conflict, 1989 - 1990 (time span of U.S. involvement)
Operation Just Cause, 1989 - 1990
Persian Gulf War, Iraq, 1991 (time span of U.S. involvement)
Operation Desert Shield, 1991
Operation Desert Storm, 1991
Iraq Conflict, 1991 - 2003 (time span of U.S. involvement)
Operation Provide Comfort, 1991 - 1996
Operation Northern Watch, 1997 - 2003
Operation Southern Watch, 1992 - 2003
Operation Desert Fox, 1998
Operation Southern Focus, 2002 - 2003
Somali Civil War, 1992 - 1994 (time span of U.S. involvement)
Operation Provide Relief, 1992
Operation Restore Hope, 1992 - 1994
United Nations Operation in Somalia I, 1992
United Nations Operation in Somalia II, 1993 - 1995
First Haitian Rebellion, 1994 (time span of U.S. involvement)
Operation Uphold Democracy, 1994 - 1995
Yugoslav wars, 1994 - 1999 (time span of U.S. involvement)
Bosnian Conflict, 1994 - 1995
Kosovo Conflict, 1997 - 1999
[edit] 21st Century
War on Terrorism, 2001 - present
Operation Enduring Freedom - Afghanistan 2001 - present
Operation Enduring Freedom - Philippines 2002 - present
Operation Enduring Freedom - Horn of Africa 2002 - present
Operation Iraqi Freedom, 2003 - present
War in North-West Pakistan, 2004 - present
Operation Enduring Freedom - Trans Sahara 2007 - present
Second Haitian Rebellion, 2004 (time span of U.S. involvement)
United Nations Stabilization Mission in Haiti, 2004 - present
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States

To ignore our real history is vey perilous for our survival in the future.

_____________________________

I was posting as Right Wing Hippie, but that account got messed up.

(in reply to luckydawg)

Post #: 34

RE: Blackwater Guards Tied to Secret Raids by the C.I.A. - 12/11/2009 2:52:06 PM

AnimusRex

Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline

Luckydawg-
I yield to your point- you are correct that most of the combat has been without declarations.
I suppose I am thinking of wars proper, not minor skirmishes.

But what is fascinating is the Philippine battles, and the Central American wars early in this century. These were classic cases of Imperial overreach, wars fought for no defensive purpose whatsoever.

These perfectly illustrate the problem- it would have been difficult to explain to American mothers why their sons were being shipped off to the Philippine jungles to do batle against Muslim insurgents. So difficult, in fact, if these wars had been put to a vote, they likely would not have happened.

Franklin Roosevelt wanted to go to war earlier than we did, but he hesitated, knowing the American people didn't really want to go to war against Germany or Japan; even after Pearl Harbor, he resisted asking for a declaration of war against Germany, until after they declared it on us first.

And THAT to me is the real point here- that the American people are not on board with another decade of war to build a nation in Afghanistan. No one has really made the case to the American public why this is so vital as to be worth their sons' lives.

(in reply to luckydawg)

Post #: 35

RE: Blackwater Guards Tied to Secret Raids by the C.I.A. - 12/11/2009 2:55:38 PM

luckydawg

Posts: 2448
Joined: 9/2/2009
Status: offline

I guess I would need a defintion of "wars proper" to respond.

Though I do see a defensive purpose to maintaining the Monroe doctrine.

< Message edited by luckydawg -- 12/11/2009 2:56:37 PM >

_____________________________

I was posting as Right Wing Hippie, but that account got messed up.

(in reply to AnimusRex)

Post #: 36

RE: Blackwater Guards Tied to Secret Raids by the C.I.A. - 12/11/2009 4:09:50 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

Well, if I were in the CIA and in Iraq and about to go out and fuck some people up of course I'd want some Blackwater guys with me!
They're all Military Veterans and they know their shit!
So, you have to look at it that way too.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to luckydawg)

Post #: 37

Page: << < prev 1 [2]

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Blackwater Guards Tied to Secret Raids by the C.I.A.

Page: << < prev 1 [2]

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.078