RE: Acid oceans: the 'evil twin' of climate change

RE: Acid oceans: the 'evil twin' of climate change (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

FirmhandKY -> RE: Acid oceans: the 'evil twin' of climate change (12/18/2009 2:01:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thornhappy quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY hmmm ... is this the "backup" position, now that "AGW" seems to be on the ropes? "Well, maybe Anthropogenic Global Warming was a fraud, and bad science, and we've been caught out .... but we can still destroy the capitalist system and take away those pesky Americans' money by claiming that the evil CO2 is destroying the oceans!" Firm This is a simple fact of life. There is only so much buffering capability in the ocean - add enough CO2 and it'll acidify. Similar things can happen with our bodies due to various illnesses and disorders (though using a different buffering system) - and it's well known in biology that living things require very tight control of pH to maintain life. So after a certain point, the organisms listed won't be able to cope. Gods help us if plankton starts dying off - the bottom of the food chain would go. Not too long ago, a lot of folks thought that excess atmospheric CO2 would be absorbed in the ocean indefinitely. Now we're seeing the limits of that mechanism. thornhappy thorn, That may all well be true, and it may be a danger that we need to face. However, it's the ... easy and facile ... transition from worrying about CO2 because of AGW, to the sudden "concern" about the death of the oceans because of that deadly CO2 that makes any serious discussion about it unlikely at the moment. The reason being, is that some of us suspicious, skeptical and cynical bastards who have questioned the "science" behind AGW for years have always seen a ideological and philosophical drive behind it that had damn all to do with actually "saving the planet", and more to do with destroying the capitalist system, punishing success, and increasing the power of government ("never let a good crisis go to waste"). As soon as the man behind the curtain seems exposed on AGW ... damn! ... another "WE MUST SAVE THE PLANET" clarion call goes out ... with the same exact villains and I betcha the same damn solutions as was required to "solve" AGW. If you understand that there will be many, many more people who will have the same suspicions now, that never would have before, then you may start to be able to understand the real damage that the "scientist" of AGW have done to environmentalism, science, and any real problems that we may face. Firm

FirmhandKY -> RE: Acid oceans: the 'evil twin' of climate change (12/18/2009 2:09:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY hmmm ... is this the "backup" position, now that "AGW" seems to be on the ropes? "Well, maybe Anthropogenic Global Warming was a fraud, and bad science, and we've been caught out .... but we can still destroy the capitalist system and take away those pesky Americans' money by claiming that the evil CO2 is destroying the oceans!" Firm About 15 years ago when a lot of welfare money began drying up for "alchoholism" and "drug addiction" (alone) and also SSDI all the drunks and druggies "came down" with any number of of maladies to add to their addictions so that they'd "qualify" for welfare and SSDI. "Bi-Polar" was a biggie. The warming religion is no differant. Does anyone think they'll be cast out of their high-paying, cushy office jobs with full benefits where they're accountable to no-one without a "fight?" This is like when the cops are questioning a suspect and he starts changing his story on t.v. "Well,.....(maybe) "global warming" (isn't) caused by man but look at the ACID OCEANS!" They try to change the subject like saying that the e-mails that exposed them were,....."stolen!" Those people will have to be dragged out fingernails scratching! "But, but,...I wouldn't know HOW to actually "W-O-R-K" for a living! "We haven't been trained for that!" "We have "Advanced Degrees" for God's sake we shouldn't have to p,p,..."produce" anything!" It's like that Colllege "Perfessor" in Colorado, Ward "TONTO" Churchill being all "respectable" when first contacted by the Press but things got really ugly with him when it came out about him forging paintings and that he really wasn't an "American Indian" just a not particularly good looking person of English heratage. He started slamming doors in reporter's faces, giving them the finger, being really mean and nasty, the actions of a person who knows that they've been caught. I think we can expext to see a lot more of that kind of thing in the comming weeks and months as more and more people in the press realize that they've been lied to for a very long time. Damn, but there ya go again, popeye! Great post! [:D] Firm

thornhappy -> RE: Acid oceans: the 'evil twin' of climate change (12/18/2009 2:27:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: thornhappy quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY hmmm ... is this the "backup" position, now that "AGW" seems to be on the ropes? "Well, maybe Anthropogenic Global Warming was a fraud, and bad science, and we've been caught out .... but we can still destroy the capitalist system and take away those pesky Americans' money by claiming that the evil CO2 is destroying the oceans!" Firm This is a simple fact of life. There is only so much buffering capability in the ocean - add enough CO2 and it'll acidify. Similar things can happen with our bodies due to various illnesses and disorders (though using a different buffering system) - and it's well known in biology that living things require very tight control of pH to maintain life. So after a certain point, the organisms listed won't be able to cope. Gods help us if plankton starts dying off - the bottom of the food chain would go. Not too long ago, a lot of folks thought that excess atmospheric CO2 would be absorbed in the ocean indefinitely. Now we're seeing the limits of that mechanism. thornhappy thorn, That may all well be true, and it may be a danger that we need to face. However, it's the ... easy and facile ... transition from worrying about CO2 because of AGW, to the sudden "concern" about the death of the oceans because of that deadly CO2 that makes any serious discussion about it unlikely at the moment. The reason being, is that some of us suspicious, skeptical and cynical bastards who have questioned the "science" behind AGW for years have always seen a ideological and philosophical drive behind it that had damn all to do with actually "saving the planet", and more to do with destroying the capitalist system, punishing success, and increasing the power of government ("never let a good crisis go to waste"). As soon as the man behind the curtain seems exposed on AGW ... damn! ... another "WE MUST SAVE THE PLANET" clarion call goes out ... with the same exact villains and I betcha the same damn solutions as was required to "solve" AGW. If you understand that there will be many, many more people who will have the same suspicions now, that never would have before, then you may start to be able to understand the real damage that the "scientist" of AGW have done to environmentalism, science, and any real problems that we may face. Firm This is not a new concern - I read about it well over a year ago, before the latest debates started. Do you have the same doubts about the naysayers who are directly supported by petroleum/gas/coal corporations? btw, did the email debates (god, it hurt my head to even dive into that) have to do with 2 papers folks suggested withdrawing from publication? Or were there more issues? thornhappy

flcouple2009 -> RE: Acid oceans: the 'evil twin' of climate change (12/18/2009 2:59:23 PM)
Sure we can pump whatever we want into the air. We can dump whatever we want into the water and that has no effect on anything either. Now let's experiment at your house, we'll close you in and start dumping stuff, it'll have no effect, right?

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Acid oceans: the 'evil twin' of climate change (12/18/2009 3:18:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: flcouple2009 Sure we can pump whatever we want into the air. We can dump whatever we want into the water and that has no effect on anything either. Now let's experiment at your house, we'll close you in and start dumping stuff, it'll have no effect, right? wow, what a reaaaallllly good analogy. [:-]

Brain -> RE: Acid oceans: the 'evil twin' of climate change (12/18/2009 3:36:58 PM)
This is less complicated to understand than a physics journal but it's nice to be able to agree with him for a change about something. Pope to Copenhagen Saving Environment as Crucial as Fighting Terrorism -- Politics Daily Benedict XVI's message for the Catholic Church's annual World Day of Peace on Jan. 1 does not mention the Copenhagen Climate Summit by name, but the target audience could not have been more obvious, nor the framing of his appeal more loaded for both foes and critics of global warming. At the very top of the 3,800-word document, titled "If You Want to Cultivate Peace, Protect Creation," the pope says the preservation of "creation"-- that is, the natural environment that is a gift from God --"has now become essential for the pacific coexistence of mankind." http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/12/18/pope-to-copenhagen-saving-environment-as-crucial-as-fighting-te/

vincentML -> RE: Acid oceans: the 'evil twin' of climate change (12/18/2009 4:09:00 PM)
Sheesh! Maybe I am being too simplistic here but we have all observed that when a bottle of carbonated soda or beer is left open and warms it goes flat. It goes flat because CO2 is no longer under the pressure needed to keep it dissolved in the water. CO2 is poorly soluble in water because the molecule is mostly nonpolar as I recall. I think it is possible that carbon dioxide will effervesce out of warming ocean water and go into the atmosphere. Check me on this. Vincent

submittous -> RE: Acid oceans: the 'evil twin' of climate change (12/18/2009 4:14:19 PM)
So many GCC deniers here on collarme, sorta kills the old cliche that bdsm people are better educated and more sophisticated than the general public....

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Acid oceans: the 'evil twin' of climate change (12/18/2009 4:37:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: submittous So many GCC deniers here on collarme, sorta kills the old cliche that bdsm people are better educated and more sophisticated than the general public.... There are no "GCC" deniers here as far as I know. Nice turn of a phrase to avoid the embarassment of supporting the hoax of AGW. There are plenty of deniers of AGW here...for good reason. Its bullshit.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Acid oceans: the 'evil twin' of climate change (12/18/2009 5:37:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: submittous So many GCC deniers here on collarme, sorta kills the old cliche that bdsm people are better educated and more sophisticated than the general public.... Put your frigging money on the table, and your arguments in your posts. I call BS on your comments. Firm

vincentML -> RE: Acid oceans: the 'evil twin' of climate change (12/18/2009 7:07:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: submittous So many GCC deniers here on collarme, sorta kills the old cliche that bdsm people are better educated and more sophisticated than the general public.... Wonder if he has anything intelligent to add to the conversation. Nah!

DarkSteven -> RE: Acid oceans: the 'evil twin' of climate change (12/18/2009 7:13:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: submittous So many GCC deniers here on collarme, sorta kills the old cliche that bdsm people are better educated and more sophisticated than the general public.... Sorry, fella, I deal in facts. If you want to show the percentage of GCC deniers in the general population and the percentage of them in the cm community and make a case for a significant difference, I'll be willing to listen to you. But I believe that your theory is that acceptance of the GCC theory is directly correlated with intelligence. I'd be interested in seeing your data. Sorry, but I have seen nothing in this whole argument that I consider convincing, either one way or the other. The whole damn argument is fueled by people with agendas, not scientists.

vincentML -> RE: Acid oceans: the 'evil twin' of climate change (12/18/2009 7:27:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven quote: ORIGINAL: submittous So many GCC deniers here on collarme, sorta kills the old cliche that bdsm people are better educated and more sophisticated than the general public.... Sorry, fella, I deal in facts. If you want to show the percentage of GCC deniers in the general population and the percentage of them in the cm community and make a case for a significant difference, I'll be willing to listen to you. But I believe that your theory is that acceptance of the GCC theory is directly correlated with intelligence. I'd be interested in seeing your data. Sorry, but I have seen nothing in this whole argument that I consider convincing, either one way or the other. The whole damn argument is fueled by people with agendas, not scientists. Gee, Steven, you are surprised that scientists have agendas? The most basic agenda is to defend a position based on research. Peer review. What would you have instead? A race of sheep? Oh, and what is the basis for your judgment that there is nothing convincing in the argument on either side? That is a pretty sweeping statement made without supporting justification. Very easy to just proclaim a pox on both your houses. Vincent

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Acid oceans: the 'evil twin' of climate change (12/18/2009 8:00:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven quote: ORIGINAL: submittous So many GCC deniers here on collarme, sorta kills the old cliche that bdsm people are better educated and more sophisticated than the general public.... Sorry, fella, I deal in facts. If you want to show the percentage of GCC deniers in the general population and the percentage of them in the cm community and make a case for a significant difference, I'll be willing to listen to you. But I believe that your theory is that acceptance of the GCC theory is directly correlated with intelligence. I'd be interested in seeing your data. Sorry, but I have seen nothing in this whole argument that I consider convincing, either one way or the other. The whole damn argument is fueled by people with agendas, not scientists. Gee, Steven, you are surprised that scientists have agendas? The most basic agenda is to defend a position based on research. Peer review. Vincent ?? That isnt an agenda, in either sense of the word, it is a methodology.

vincentML -> RE: Acid oceans: the 'evil twin' of climate change (12/18/2009 8:25:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven quote: ORIGINAL: submittous So many GCC deniers here on collarme, sorta kills the old cliche that bdsm people are better educated and more sophisticated than the general public.... Sorry, fella, I deal in facts. If you want to show the percentage of GCC deniers in the general population and the percentage of them in the cm community and make a case for a significant difference, I'll be willing to listen to you. But I believe that your theory is that acceptance of the GCC theory is directly correlated with intelligence. I'd be interested in seeing your data. Sorry, but I have seen nothing in this whole argument that I consider convincing, either one way or the other. The whole damn argument is fueled by people with agendas, not scientists. Gee, Steven, you are surprised that scientists have agendas? The most basic agenda is to defend a position based on research. Peer review. Vincent ?? That isnt an agenda, in either sense of the word, it is a methodology. Very well. That is a fair point. It still lies with Steven to justify his sweeping claim that he sees nothing in the whole argument that is convincing. I might also ask him to define "convincing" while he is at it. Vincent

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Acid oceans: the 'evil twin' of climate change (12/18/2009 10:56:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven quote: ORIGINAL: submittous So many GCC deniers here on collarme, sorta kills the old cliche that bdsm people are better educated and more sophisticated than the general public.... Sorry, fella, I deal in facts. If you want to show the percentage of GCC deniers in the general population and the percentage of them in the cm community and make a case for a significant difference, I'll be willing to listen to you. But I believe that your theory is that acceptance of the GCC theory is directly correlated with intelligence. I'd be interested in seeing your data. Sorry, but I have seen nothing in this whole argument that I consider convincing, either one way or the other. The whole damn argument is fueled by people with agendas, not scientists. Gee, Steven, you are surprised that scientists have agendas? The most basic agenda is to defend a position based on research. Peer review. Vincent ?? That isnt an agenda, in either sense of the word, it is a methodology. Very well. That is a fair point. It still lies with Steven to justify his sweeping claim that he sees nothing in the whole argument that is convincing. I might also ask him to define "convincing" while he is at it. Vincent Maybe Im getting lost in the quadruple negatives. I sum up the above as DS not being convinced that being an AGW denier indicates someone is less educated and less sophisticated, something I would have thought you agree with. (As far as BDSM having a larger than normal representation of more educated and more sophisticated people, that must have been a joke!)

rulemylife -> RE: Acid oceans: the 'evil twin' of climate change (12/18/2009 11:35:33 PM)
I just realized I forgot to add the link, so here it is for anyone that wants to read the full article: Acid oceans: the 'evil twin' of climate change‎

rulemylife -> RE: Acid oceans: the 'evil twin' of climate change (12/18/2009 11:44:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY hmmm ... is this the "backup" position, now that "AGW" seems to be on the ropes? "Well, maybe Anthropogenic Global Warming was a fraud, and bad science, and we've been caught out .... but we can still destroy the capitalist system and take away those pesky Americans' money by claiming that the evil CO2 is destroying the oceans!" Firm Do you honestly believe that this is all a vast conspiracy by scientists from all over the globe to promote a fraud? To what end? Are they all getting rich off this?

rulemylife -> RE: Acid oceans: the 'evil twin' of climate change (12/18/2009 11:52:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin I heard about that here, from our own National Marine Laboratory, it seems they have got on the AGW band wagon too, but I also read somewhere, maybe these forums, the acidification of the seas, is balanced out by other happenings, the acidification is just one thing that has been isolated amongst other things, but the acidification is more political, so it comes to the fore. And if it's not, then sea creatures will have to adapt to changing conditions, just like the humans, as nothing is going to stop the planet doing it's thing, or big business making money. Honestly though, all these , if you can't blind them with science,(because the science is flawed), baffle them with bullshit peddlars, the pro AGW scientific community, they better watch it, because if they try to sell us something based on flawed data, they run the risk of being ignored and ridiculed in future, by a public fed up with bullshit baffling so called scientists, they will destroy their status for everyone involved in science. See this is what I really don't understand. What is it you think they are trying to "sell us"? On one hand you complain of big business but then go on to try to attribute a profit motive to the scientists doing the research.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Acid oceans: the 'evil twin' of climate change (12/18/2009 11:57:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY hmmm ... is this the "backup" position, now that "AGW" seems to be on the ropes? "Well, maybe Anthropogenic Global Warming was a fraud, and bad science, and we've been caught out .... but we can still destroy the capitalist system and take away those pesky Americans' money by claiming that the evil CO2 is destroying the oceans!" Firm Do you honestly believe that this is all a vast conspiracy by scientists from all over the globe to promote a fraud? To what end? Are they all getting rich off this? It didnt need to be "vast". the science was so weak that it just took a few. Yes, plenty of people are getting rich off of it, and plenty of others getting grants up the ass.

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875