"One of our most precious freedoms".

"One of our most precious freedoms". (Full Version)

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popeye1250 -> "One of our most precious freedoms". (12/18/2009 2:33:30 PM)
Freedom of the Press! Discuss.

NorthernGent -> RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". (12/18/2009 2:37:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Freedom of the Press! Discuss. Good topic Popeye.....an English concept by the way. Unfortunately it's an illusion. You will never hear of some of the stuff that your or my government sanctions...quite simply because the audience doesn't want to hear it and they have papers to sell.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". (12/18/2009 4:54:03 PM)
That doesnt make its freedom an illusion. A free and responsible press is essential to a democracy. If Al Gore had never invented the internet and all information was supplied by the MSM we would certainly be doomed to socialism. We may be anyway. Its hard to vote out a party that is giving almost half the country a free ride. Eventually even they will realize that "income redistribution" cannot be sustained indefinitely, but then it will be too late, as we become a third world/third rate country.

SpinnerofTales -> RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". (12/18/2009 6:10:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy That doesnt make its freedom an illusion. A free and responsible press is essential to a democracy. If Al Gore had never invented the internet and all information was supplied by the MSM we would certainly be doomed to socialism. We may be anyway. Its hard to vote out a party that is giving almost half the country a free ride. Eventually even they will realize that "income redistribution" cannot be sustained indefinitely, but then it will be too late, as we become a third world/third rate country. I love the ideology you keep championing, WD. Of course, the policies that have redistributed wealth for the last thirty years have nothing to do with the troubles we are having. Taking wealth from the poor and middle class isn't harmful. It's a good thing. Trying to change things so that the middle class can survive and grow is socialism. If only we had let the corporations and bankers and other wealthy people do what we want, things would be different. Oh, wait! We did. And here we are.

TheHeretic -> RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". (12/18/2009 6:25:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Freedom of the Press! Discuss. It's a "load the guns" issue, Popeye. What more do you need to know?

SpinnerofTales -> RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". (12/18/2009 6:49:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Freedom of the Press! Discuss. It's a "load the guns" issue, Popeye. What more do you need to know? We actually agree on something, Heretic. Of all our freedoms, freedom of speech is the one that makes all the others possible.

DarkSteven -> RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". (12/18/2009 7:23:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy A free and responsible press is essential to a democracy. Agreed. In today's world, I doubt that an impartial press is possible, so I like the current practice of having commentators from both sides of the spectrum. It's ironic that willbe used the word "free" in the normal usage of the word at the same time that Rupert Murdoch is agitating to get the public to pay for online content that has always been without charge. If we do have to pay for news, does that change things? An informed people is vital for a democracy - will having to pay for content be inimical to that?

willbeurdaddy -> RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". (12/18/2009 7:24:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy That doesnt make its freedom an illusion. A free and responsible press is essential to a democracy. If Al Gore had never invented the internet and all information was supplied by the MSM we would certainly be doomed to socialism. We may be anyway. Its hard to vote out a party that is giving almost half the country a free ride. Eventually even they will realize that "income redistribution" cannot be sustained indefinitely, but then it will be too late, as we become a third world/third rate country. I love the ideology you keep championing, WD. Of course, the policies that have redistributed wealth for the last thirty years have nothing to do with the troubles we are having. Taking wealth from the poor and middle class isn't harmful. It's a good thing. Trying to change things so that the middle class can survive and grow is socialism. If only we had let the corporations and bankers and other wealthy people do what we want, things would be different. Oh, wait! We did. And here we are. There have been no "policies that redistribute wealth FROM the poor and middle class.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". (12/18/2009 7:28:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy A free and responsible press is essential to a democracy. Agreed. In today's world, I doubt that an impartial press is possible, so I like the current practice of having commentators from both sides of the spectrum. It's ironic that willbe used the word "free" in the normal usage of the word at the same time that Rupert Murdoch is agitating to get the public to pay for online content that has always been without charge. If we do have to pay for news, does that change things? An informed people is vital for a democracy - will having to pay for content be inimical to that? I don't understand your point. Newspapers aren't free. "Free TV" isnt free. Cable TV isnt free. What is the problem with actually trying to make money from a business, even if that business is news?

DarkSteven -> RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". (12/18/2009 7:32:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy I don't understand your point. Newspapers aren't free. "Free TV" isnt free. Cable TV isnt free. What is the problem with actually trying to make money from a business, even if that business is news? I'm distinguishing between user fees and paid advertising. Free TV and online newspapers are supported by advertising. The proposal is to add user fees as a second revenue source. I just dislike the idea of paying for content, although I do have to agree that a lot of current content such as cable and newspapers are paid for.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". (12/18/2009 7:37:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy I don't understand your point. Newspapers aren't free. "Free TV" isnt free. Cable TV isnt free. What is the problem with actually trying to make money from a business, even if that business is news? I'm distinguishing between user fees and paid advertising. Free TV and online newspapers are supported by advertising. The proposal is to add user fees as a second revenue source. I just dislike the idea of paying for content, although I do have to agree that a lot of current content such as cable and newspapers are paid for. Then don't pay for it. There will be plenty of blogs and boards that skirt copyright laws. And one of the big benefits if a lot of sites begin to charge is that we won't have to put up with non-stop cut and pastes from Brain.

DarkSteven -> RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". (12/18/2009 7:42:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Then don't pay for it. There will be plenty of blogs and boards that skirt copyright laws. You're right. In addition to the sources that you cite that will skirt copyrights, there will be plenty of other sources that are lawful and free as well. I just got bothered by Murdoch's stance and triggered on the word 'free' when you used it.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". (12/18/2009 7:48:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Then don't pay for it. There will be plenty of blogs and boards that skirt copyright laws. You're right. In addition to the sources that you cite that will skirt copyrights, there will be plenty of other sources that are lawful and free as well. I just got bothered by Murdoch's stance and triggered on the word 'free' when you used it. Well, at risk of actually agreeing with SoT on something, I don't think anyone else thinks of a free press in that way. I also don't characterize something as "free" (in the cost sense) just because you don't reach into your wallet or write a check for it. Having to sit through commericials, click off pop ups, find an article hiding in the middle of a maze of "free offers" all have a cost. The closest thing we have to a non-pay news medium is NPR I suppose. (I don't know for sure, since its so dreadfully boring I stopped listening to it decades ago).

MichiganHeadmast -> RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". (12/18/2009 9:19:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Freedom of the Press! Discuss. I would rank it pretty equally with all those rights enumerated in the First Amendment. Backed by those rights enshrined in the Second Amendment. They all go together. The Founders, for any faults they might have had, got a lot of things right.

Silence8 -> RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". (12/19/2009 12:29:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Freedom of the Press! Discuss. Sounds like a good idea. Let's try it!

Silence8 -> RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". (12/19/2009 12:31:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy That doesnt make its freedom an illusion. A free and responsible press is essential to a democracy. If Al Gore had never invented the internet and all information was supplied by the MSM we would certainly be doomed to socialism. We may be anyway. Its hard to vote out a party that is giving almost half the country a free ride. Eventually even they will realize that "income redistribution" cannot be sustained indefinitely, but then it will be too late, as we become a third world/third rate country. I love the ideology you keep championing, WD. Of course, the policies that have redistributed wealth for the last thirty years have nothing to do with the troubles we are having. Taking wealth from the poor and middle class isn't harmful. It's a good thing. Trying to change things so that the middle class can survive and grow is socialism. If only we had let the corporations and bankers and other wealthy people do what we want, things would be different. Oh, wait! We did. And here we are. There have been no "policies that redistribute wealth FROM the poor and middle class. Confundo! What... where am I... yes, uh, I believe that.

NorthernGent -> RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". (12/19/2009 1:27:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy That doesnt make its freedom an illusion. I'd say journalism restricted by business interests and the concept of 'in the national interest' amounts to less than freedom of expression. There will be intentions and actions in Iraq and Afghanistan that will never see the light of journalism day due to the aforementioned priniciples. From a reader's point of view - I'd quite like an independent report of events - that is my idea of a free press. quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy A free and responsible press is essential to a democracy. Nice rhetoric......yet there is far more to a democracy than the freedom to choose which newspaper or which pair of jeans you should buy.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". (12/19/2009 3:00:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy That doesnt make its freedom an illusion. I'd say journalism restricted by business interests and the concept of 'in the national interest' amounts to less than freedom of expression. There will be intentions and actions in Iraq and Afghanistan that will never see the light of journalism day due to the aforementioned priniciples. From a reader's point of view - I'd quite like an independent report of events - that is my idea of a free press. quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy A free and responsible press is essential to a democracy. Nice rhetoric......yet there is far more to a democracy than the freedom to choose which newspaper or which pair of jeans you should buy. There hasn't been an "independent report of events" since the Gutenberg press. Journalism has always had the biases of the owners and reporters embedded, however unintentionally. The reader has always had to evaluate what he read in that context, so your idea of a free press has never existed. Free means free from the influence of government, period. Rhetoric? Show me any country that doesn't have a press free from the government, and I guarantee that it's citizens are repressed in virtually all areas.

Brain -> RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". (12/19/2009 9:22:13 AM)
Since this thread is about media I thought you might be interested in these under reported stories. I don’t know why these stories are under reported maybe somebody can shed light on the matter; maybe it has something to do with making money. TOP 10 UNDERREPORTED STORIES 1. Continuing Segregation Is Hurting U.S. Competitiveness http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1945379_1944495,00.html#ixzz0a3wiYJ5s 2. Nigerian Blood for Oil http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1945379_1944495_1944500,00.html 3. The Maoist Insurgency in India http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1945379_1944495_1944502,00.html 4. America: Barring Foreign Brains? http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1945379_1944495_1944505,00.html 5. Ethnic Unrest in Iran http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1945379_1944495_1944508,00.html 6. The Deadlier Flu Virus: When Pigs Fly http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1945379_1944495_1944511,00.html 7. Obama Allows Faith-Based 'Discrimination' http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1945379_1944495_1944513,00.html 8. Who Owns the Mekong? http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1945379_1944495_1944515,00.html 9. Oops! U.S. Nuclear Secrets Are Posted Online Read more: http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1945379_1944495_1944517,00.html 10. Experimenting with Children http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1945379_1944495_1944519,00.html

NorthernGent -> RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". (12/19/2009 9:36:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Journalism has always had the biases of the owners and reporters embedded, however unintentionally. We're talking about two entirely different things. Everything you/I/the next man writes is underpinned by our personal experiences. That's a given. The bed housing big business/the media/government is an altogether different matter. This is not a matter of personal experience - but rather a matter of keeping everything neat and tidy so the audience don't get above their collective station.

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