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When it doesn't - 3/17/2006 6:23:13 PM   
MHOO314


Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		Quite meet expectations...

I teach and mentor regularly--Dom/mes, female and male submissives---one of the questions I always wrestle with is:

That event/scene/evening did not go as I planned--the spark was not there--I did not/i did not get what i hoped--what do I/i do now?

for whatever reason--could be unanticipated pain, a misplaced whip stroke, whatever---so I thought I would bring this to My C/colleagues for their opinions and ideas--

When it doesn't go quite as planned--what do you do?

_____________________________

SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor

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RE: When it doesn't - 3/17/2006 6:32:03 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I think very hard about why JW (you now who I mean) has written a great deal about this. That is the difference between pros or experienced and I will do anythings, now ain't it?

One hopes that at this stage you ain't shoving a couple quarts of vodka up there ass and being all surprised........

I am teasing you, you know what I mean .............

As a dominant, you should know....
As a dominant, you should be.........
As a dominant, you should wear.....
As a dominant, you should have


My dearest MH,
as a dominant you should learn you are human, you will not make that fuck up in the exact same way again..........you will get dominion...........

I am a HUMAN that is dominant and so are you. We got Dom drop, no?

But as a dominant, you should.......

ASSWIPE. You are held to a higher standard but should not be held to the standard of a god, unless it is in scene (whatever you wanna call it)


XO,
Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: When it doesn't - 3/17/2006 6:49:05 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		for me... it could be my head wasn't in the right place... life got the better of me... a Dominant can only do so much... but sometimes.. just simple life gets in the way, Ma'am... the kids came home and bitched about the lunch they were given...

at any one time i can have up to 5 teenaged boys in a very small apartment... can that have an affect on how i related to Aanother?? yes it can... and does... is it that Person's fault??? no... it just is...

maybe that person wasn't quite as focused as they should have been... maybe they had just gotten fired from a job or had one too many arguments with their children..or any myriad of things could have happened to the person that caused them to give You the vibes that 'things weren't going as planned'.

Please don't take it personally, Ma'am... because tomorrow is another day...


_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


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RE: When it doesn't - 3/17/2006 7:52:13 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		First... I do not have the expectation that everything will go as PLANNED!

Sometimes what is planned will be better than what actually happened.... sometimes it will be worse.

I suggest one not make a plan.... But a guide..... and be prepared to responded to changing situations/events... be those sitautions/events be positive or negative.


Great Tops/Dominants will respond to any given situation/event with all the skills/talents/abilities/inherent qualites at their disposal and will succeed more than they fail.






_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: When it doesn't - 3/17/2006 8:06:46 PM   
MHOO314


Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		Let Me clarify, this is a question that My students often ask after their first or second "events" with a prospective Dom/me or submissive.

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SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor


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RE: When it doesn't - 3/17/2006 8:13:08 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314

Let Me clarify, this is a question that My students often ask after their first or second "events" with a prospective Dom/me or submissive.



my opinion doesn't change except to add....

If wish to be this:

Great Tops/Dominants will respond to any given situation/event with all the skills/talents/abilities/inherent qualites at their disposal and will succeed more than they fail.

Enter play not with the expection of fulfilling a Plan... but with an expectation to have fun.... make your choices towards fulfilling that expectation.... also expect that sometimes it will not be fun. Lastly, always try to learn from every play experience... be it one that you are in or one you observe!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: When it doesn't - 3/17/2006 8:17:46 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		LOL... MHOO... Ma'am... I was always told... want to make the Gods laugh... MAKE PLANS... lmao

Not sure this goes with topic... just sounded good to me.. in one of those moods..

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Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

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RE: When it doesn't - 3/17/2006 8:31:31 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314
When it doesn't go quite as planned--what do you do?

Depends on the situation. If I'm well fed, comfortable, don't have to go to the bathroom, am not overly tired or sick, and feel pretty stable overall, then I shrug it off and laugh about it. Maybe talk to the person and learn from it.

If I'm not well fed, sick or uncomfortable, have to go to the bathroom and/or have some serious instability in my life, then I'll likely react badly, cry, get snappy and need to give myself some time to re-stabilize before I can look at things with a reasonable perspective.

At any case, the long term effects will hopefully be that I learn about the situation and learn communication skills.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: When it doesn't - 3/17/2006 8:53:33 PM   
OscarHargraves


Posts: 693
Joined: 8/9/2005
Status: offline 		Is it possible that you are over-planning? I personally prefer to plan 'loosely' and then let the scene ebb and flow as the feelings take me/us. Every time I have tried to plan something like this in detail I found that one of the hundreds of variables got in the way.

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Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly ! !

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RE: When it doesn't - 3/17/2006 8:53:54 PM   
Smythe


Posts: 369
Joined: 12/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314

Quite meet expectations...

I teach and mentor regularly--Dom/mes, female and male submissives---one of the questions I always wrestle with is:

That event/scene/evening did not go as I planned--the spark was not there--I did not/i did not get what i hoped--what do I/i do now?

for whatever reason--could be unanticipated pain, a misplaced whip stroke, whatever---so I thought I would bring this to My C/colleagues for their opinions and ideas--

When it doesn't go quite as planned--what do you do?



Hi MH, back from your trip?

I have to go with KofM on this, and say that in general, anything more than a sketchy outline is overplanning. A lot of times I will think "oohhhh, haven't used my arm binders in a while" or "I am too tired to tie knots" and that is the extent of the planning. Everything else is the energy of the moment, creativity, spontaneity, reading my partner and fun.

I have noticed, however, that I have gotten better at this kind of spontaneity as I have become more experienced, and you are talking with beginners, I assume. Still, I think it's a good idea to teach them that things almost never go as planned, and that's a good thing. And certainly the better you know your partner, the more likely it is that a spark will be there.

Just one more thing: if something really goes *wrong* like the misplaced stroke, something said that strikes a nerve, then naturally things should slow down or stop and the whole ship should make a course correction.

best
Smythe



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Do not consider painful what is good for you.
Euripides

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RE: When it doesn't - 3/17/2006 8:56:56 PM   
Evanesce


Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

That event/scene/evening did not go as I planned--the spark was not there--I did not/i did not get what i hoped--what do I/i do now?


Gee... we had one of those just last weekend.

What to do...

1. Don't automatically assume you did something wrong. There are many, many reasons for play to go awry, and it's not always someone's "fault."

2. Try to pinpoint where the scene went wrong. What were you doing? What was your reaction to what was being done? What were you feeling? What were you thinking? Did it start good and go to bad, or was it not working from the beginning?

3. Once you know when, ask yourself WHY it went wrong. Don't blame the other person. This isn't about who did what wrong. It's about working out a way to make it RIGHT the next time.

4. If you learn you made a mistake, don't dwell on it. Accept yourself as being human, forgive your own mistakes, apologize if necessary, and learn what to do so you don't make that mistake again.

5. Accept that there are times when you may NEVER know what went wrong, or why. Sometimes, when the stars are aligned just so, it's just not going to work no matter WHAT you do.

_____________________________

Denise

Give a slave what he truly needs, and he will do what you want.

"There's never a hero in a battle of ego." - Big & Rich


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RE: When it doesn't - 3/17/2006 9:02:49 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314

Quite meet expectations...

I teach and mentor regularly--Dom/mes, female and male submissives---one of the questions I always wrestle with is:

That event/scene/evening did not go as I planned--the spark was not there--I did not/i did not get what i hoped--what do I/i do now?

for whatever reason--could be unanticipated pain, a misplaced whip stroke, whatever---so I thought I would bring this to My C/colleagues for their opinions and ideas--

When it doesn't go quite as planned--what do you do?


Greetings and Salutations MH, you know the high esteem you are held in my home. So let’s settle down with a cup of tea or hot chocolate and look at this from a distance, shall we?

Any military man will tell you that once an operation commences, even the best made plans go out the door and are only useful for dunny paper. Flexibility is one of the most useful keys as is a continual vigilance. I am of the mind in all things I do, to have a debriefing and keeping it a informal as possible. By finding out how play partners felt and their results compared to any expectations will give you good feed back..

So you wanted to take a partner to a specific place and have then feel specific feelings? Ok then after, jot down exactly your moves and actions so you can make future adjustments. The play partner wanted to experience something specific. Then he/she needs to give you details of where and what they actually felt. Again this way you can make adjustments..

So ok I don’t play ~ In BDSM ~ but I do work in similar ways in various areas of magick and especially in shamanic workings.. There people do go into something which appears to be identical to subspace/Dom space etc so what I am saying is viable in any of those areas…. I do know the difficulties of debriefing people and those just from a combat scene are coming down from combat space (for want of a better term). The difference in the need for information is not to help them get there better but to help keep them alive next time.. Same techniques different motives…

If you want to discuss this in any depth or at a personal level, you know how to contact me and that I will be back to your ASAP.



_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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RE: When it doesn't - 3/17/2006 9:50:54 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

When it doesn't go quite as planned--what do you do?


If something isn't working, talk first.. then I get immediately back on the hobby horse and try again, this time without a plan except to have some fun. Alphabet spankings or floggings with a favorite weapon of the bottom.. each smack accompanied by a BDSM related word that starts with the next letter in sequence of the alphabet. Going through the alphabet a few times forwards and backwards and repeat words gain a smack with a weapon which is not favored by the bottom.. just for some laughs. Laughter is a great healer and I fall back on it often and if the bottom doesn't get to subspace or wherever it is they wanted to go, at least we've gotten to laugh together. To me, a successful scene is one in which everyone leaves smiling and wanting to do it all over again. If I want to a bottom to both laugh and cry at the same time, I'll sing for them.. then they'll just be grateful it's all over and forget about what went wrong. If a next time we got together things went badly again, I'd have to reevaluate how compatible we are as play partners, then perhaps give it one more go before calling it quits.

;)

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: When it doesn't - 3/18/2006 3:20:27 AM   
MHOO314


Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you so much for your insight and wisdom--I am honored---let Me add that this is scenario that has been asked of Me, by My students in the past and recently--and thought (and I am not wrong) that the insight provided here would be invaluable---I think newbies whether Dom/mes or submissives---often rush out the door and expect that those first "play times" will go swimmingly--heck I think even us who have experience have moments when it goes awry---its awesome advice not to take it to heart--and learn from it---life is lessons whether in or out of the lifestyle.

Again, as always IronBear, I am honored.

_____________________________

SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor


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RE: When it doesn't - 3/18/2006 3:21:43 AM   
MHOO314


Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		Perfect thoughts to remember---

_____________________________

SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor


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RE: When it doesn't - 3/18/2006 3:26:34 AM   
MHOO314


Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Smythe

Hi MH, back from your trip?


Thank You Lady, and yes I am back from My trip--a marvelous week with the boy--he is as always incredible to be with----W/we have learned to be quite strong as the drops come hard---<smiles> but I am off to him mid April--

quote:

I have noticed, however, that I have gotten better at this kind of spontaneity as I have become more experienced, and you are talking with beginners, I assume. Still, I think it's a good idea to teach them that things almost never go as planned, and that's a good thing. And certainly the better you know your partner, the more likely it is that a spark will be there.

best
Smythe



As always---very good words of wisdom--things like events in life almost always don't go as planned----that is what makes it all so marvelously human--



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SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor


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RE: When it doesn't - 3/18/2006 9:05:06 AM   
TexasMaam


Posts: 1467
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314
When it doesn't go quite as planned--what do you do?


My sessions never go 'as planned'! Well, OK, sometimes they do, but rarely.

I always have a clear and concise plan for several BDSM activities for a given session, yet, I always find the dynamics of the session take on a life of their own and I adjust with the ebb and flow of the subs' response.

Most of the time, the session takes an unexpected turn for the better, and something delightful or excruciating or cathartic or exhilirating or satisfying or or or...emotionally/phychologically/emotionally rewarding happens.

Then there are those times when a session just doesn't 'work' for Me.

For whatever reason, as you stated, the 'spark' is not there, I may feel distanced or estranged/disconnected.

There have been occasions where I've looked at My sub wondering why on earth either of us is there at that particular moment in time. It's an eerie detachment that can be a daunting experience, because it usually happens after a great deal of excitement and anticipation, even longing, for the opportunity to be together for a scene.

When those instances arise, I focus on who I really know bobbi to be: I concentrate on what I know, intellectually and instinctively, to be his inner needs and cravings that motivate him to work at our relationship as he does.

I generally abanbon My preconcieved plans for the session and vamp it down, focusing on basic techniques that have given him the release, the catharsis that he's felt in the past. It may be simple bondage, with or without sensory deprivation; it may be mild pain stimulation; sometimes it's simply a directive on how I want him to serve Me at the time and I just relax and enjoy Myself.

I never 'fret' over that "Domme-space" spark or even his sense of submission being temporarily burned out.

I go back to the basics, knowing that the next session will be much more fulfilling.

The remarkable thing about this is that in our after-session discussions, I usually learn that there was an activity or an interaction that bobbi enjoyed or responded to the most, even when I might have felt 'off the mark'.

Persevere. That's My Motto.

Texas Maam

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RE: When it doesn't - 3/18/2006 9:37:25 AM   
TexasMaam


Posts: 1467
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314

Let Me clarify, this is a question that My students often ask after their first or second "events" with a prospective Dom/me or submissive.



OH! *read all of the posts, TM, before you wax locquacious!* Sorry.

I think THAT specific issue is a reality check.

There's such a tremendous gulf between fantasizing about what will happen and what actually takes place.

The inevitable "damn!...that golden shower, flogging, bondage, fill in the blank here_______________ ' just didn't "do" for me what I thought it would....".

I think many a sub, if not every sub, goes through that 'reality check' initiation into the world of BDSM.

As a Domme, I have a credo that I never overlook:

Play a little, Talk a LOT.

When working with a new sub, I ask the sub to tell me how things felt, how he reacted, what he thought about X, Y, Z activity. We have the inevitable 'fantasy vs reality' conversation, where I instruct him to always confide in Me his innermost feelings about what transpired. I ALWAYS ask the sub about every single experience we shared throughout the session, every session. I tell him, quite plainly, that he's embarked on a learning experience and that he's going to find a lot of real experiences will be a let down from his fantasies, but that along the way he'll find activities and sensations that are more satisfying than he ever imagined. The key is in letting go of one to discover the other.

It's very difficult to teach a male sub to open up and talk about such things, especially since subs are generally shy and tend to internalize rather than communicate.

However, once the sub is comfortable answering My probing questions, he generally finds relief in being honest and having an outlet for his reactions, thoughts, expectations.

The sub has to learn to look past his fantasies and expectations and focus on what he's actually experiencing, instead. I would suggest to the sub that he tell his new Domme what he found to be disappointing. I'll give you an example:

A sub expected Anal play to be incredibly stimulating; he fantasized that it would crescendo into a shattering orgasmic experience that would leave him emptied, spent, exhausted and zoned out. (Because that's what he's been reading or watching on videos and that's what he hoped to experience.)

The reality was: it hurt like hell, he did not have even the slightest hint of an erection and the feeling of pressure/ejaculate/urinary-void/stone-ache that actually transpired was a new, unusual, not entirely pleasurable, not entirely painful, mostly "WEIRD" sensation that took a lot of getting used to!

Add to that his tension over having someone play with his bum at all, and you have a real recipe for BDSM training disaster.

The key is in discussing it all, every detail. I teach a sub that he will remember these feelings in our next session, and that now that he has some real experience to base his expectations on, I ask him to rethink his fantasies and find the REALITY BASED sensations that please him, satisfy him, satiate him, quench his needs and cravings and fulfill him.

Regardless of the activity in question, My approach remains the same:

Play a little, talk a LOT.
Play a little more, talk a LOT more.
Don't hold back, don't lie to Me, don't think you'll hurt My feelings:
Play a little, talk a LOT!

Texas Maam


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RE: When it doesn't - 3/18/2006 10:04:50 AM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		I have only to agree with everyone that posted before me.

In most intances I have no more of a plan than I'm going to use this and that and we are going to be playing over there. And everything after that is dictated by the energy created between me and my partners. We always discuss the scene a day or two later after we've had time to absorb and process the experience and the points discussed are what worked, what didn't work and how to make it better next time.

In the instance that I'm going to do something on the edge of extreme that I've never done before then there's more involved that a loose idea. As I've given everyone a small glimpse into the amount of planning and consideration I'm involved with for the scrotum nailing scene that I'm going to do...only 3 weeks to go!!!! I also venture into untread territory with no expectations other than to learn something.

I am fully aware that this scene may blow up in my face, or simply be far less exciting than it's potential. Whether it turns out to be completely unfulfilling or one of the most exhilarating scenes I have participated in to date, I will not take it personally. I won't feel like a better or worse Domme because of the feelings generated.

I think other than echoing the wonderful advice regarding communication before, during and afterwards, I would add that there should be no expectations before going into a scene.

_____________________________

Tress


"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother


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RE: When it doesn't - 3/18/2006 10:08:05 AM   
artglfr


Posts: 235
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline 		Very well stated." Play little and talk a lot "is very good advice. female submissives also seem to have a tough time truly telling what they are thinking/feeling. With ones I am working with for the first few times, until I get to know them, I ask them to rate on 1 to 10 how intense their feelings are...as well as making certain they remember their code words and I have had some tell me talking to them like this brought them out of "sub space" and killed the scene.

I tell them it is the only way I know to guarantee that I am getting to truly know what is happening and they will have to get used to it, having a disappointment or two at the early stages of a relationship I feel is good because then We talk and discuss their feelings. After I explain their safety and future enjoyment is the reason for me talking to them and asking questions usually they see I am trying to work with them and not just being cruel .

I have only had a couple of subs tell me again that I should NOT talk to them because it interfered with their fun and I obviously had to tell them to look elsewhere. Safety is important as well as learning the person before me.

One sub told me Immediately after I asked her what number she was at that I was NOT a Dom or I wouldn't have to ask "HER" !!! Then she left in anger never to return...breaking My heart LOL.

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