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RE: opinion of Masters required please - 12/20/2009 3:40:54 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: persephonee

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

if a subbie submits and a slave submits, whats the difference?

The slave (in all likelihood) has surrendered a greater percentage of the available facets of hir life that are available for surrender.

Or, she just likes the bells and the harem pants.

I'm all about the bells and harem pants.

But I have a costume fetish.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to persephonee)

Post #: 21

RE: opinion of Masters required please - 12/20/2009 7:28:07 PM

elleX

Posts: 161
Joined: 10/24/2009
Status: offline

Greettings antipode
i was refering to mens profile that want a slave from the beginning with all the * what she will have to exptect and do*
, is there so many women that put themsleves available as slave from the firts talk or time spend with a potentiel Dominant
,,,

(in reply to antipode)

Post #: 22

RE: opinion of Masters required please - 12/20/2009 10:08:20 PM

sweetsub1957

Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

if a subbie submits and a slave submits, whats the difference?

I just see it as a continuum, with slave being toward the more extreme end of things. Then again, I could be wrong............

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to osf)

Post #: 23

RE: opinion of Masters required please - 12/20/2009 10:24:14 PM

Valyraen

Posts: 746
Joined: 2/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

I"m wondering how you get to require Masters to do something....

Glad I'm not the only person who caught that... but any dom commenting on it first would probably just sound pissy.

_____________________________

CM's Resident Fuzzy Kitteh

There is no creature more loving than a hungry cat.

Valyraen in ValyraenandAqua

(in reply to sunshinemiss)

Post #: 24

RE: opinion of Masters required please - 12/21/2009 6:19:48 AM

Retfirefighter

Posts: 10
Joined: 1/13/2005
Status: offline

Lets start this way.

Submissive you have rights can say no stop I don't want to .

Slave NO rights just do as told no back talk or at times no talking at all.

(in reply to antipode)

Post #: 25

RE: opinion of Masters required please - 12/21/2009 7:13:21 AM

osf

Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
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everyone has rights regardless of what they call themselves and whether they relinquish them to another, they can always be taken back

just a reality check

< Message edited by osf -- 12/21/2009 7:14:03 AM >

(in reply to Retfirefighter)

Post #: 26

RE: opinion of Masters required please - 12/21/2009 8:11:21 AM

sunshinemiss

Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
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quote:

everyone has rights regardless of what they call themselves and whether they relinquish them to another, they can always be taken back

just a reality check

Ding ding ding!!! We have a winner!

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

(in reply to osf)

Post #: 27

RE: opinion of Masters required please - 12/21/2009 8:57:31 AM

persephonee

Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline

quote:

... is there so many women that put themsleves available as slave from the firts talk or time spend with a potentiel Dominant

And that is entirely on them ( the women)....i came into this whole concept (WIITWD), completely devoid of knowledge of how to negociate (physically and emotionally navigate) safely...within the confines of the norms of this specific community.....

Within 15 minutes of research, online and with realtime friends, i had heard the basic story line of the poor girl who gave too much too fast to a total stranger and paid the emotional price.....coming into this at the ripe old age of 38, i had to call bullshit on that then, as i continue to do today.

i was new to the community, but not new to life in general.

And, im not denying that there are not a preponderance of stories out there....im just sayin, thats on them.

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to elleX)

Post #: 28

RE: opinion of Masters required please - 12/21/2009 9:05:22 AM

ElectraGlide

Posts: 1246
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: Maryland
Status: offline

I never figured out why there is 3 terms of Submissiveness. A Slave is to serve, a Submissive that does not want to serve is a Bottom to me. I am not knocking any Submissives, but when I see a profile from a Submissive and they state they don't do windows or dishes, I see a Bottom.

_____________________________

www.starhillcreations.com

(in reply to antipode)

Post #: 29

RE: opinion of Masters required please - 12/21/2009 9:51:43 AM

osf

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i disregard the labels and try to find out what shes really into

(in reply to ElectraGlide)

Post #: 30

RE: opinion of Masters required please - 12/21/2009 5:02:55 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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In my opinion, not to be confused with anyone elses, I think that the word "slave" has no real meaning. EVERYONE seems to define it differently. I think that "slave" has gotten some sort of cachet now and so doms and subs alike are streaming to it.

Insofar as entering into a slave relationship from the beginning, Carol and I did that (well, if you discount 13 years of relationship before the collaring *laughs*). But honestly, even after 2 years now, it's more a statement of intent than an actuality. At the 2 year mark, I am beginning to see her as my property, not my wife in a consistent way. At the 2 year mark, she's beginning to think of herself the same way. That doesn't invalidate everything that went before. Life is a journey.

In a more vanilla sense, we are not any more married now than we were 13 years ago. It's just that now that marriage has a lot more color, richness and depth to it than it did then.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to elleX)

Post #: 31

RE: opinion of Masters required please - 12/21/2009 5:21:27 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

I don't know about their being many women that want to be a slave or submissive... but I know what I want within my intimate relationships at this stage in my life. When Kyra came into my life there was no doubt what kinda of relationship was appropriate for me. Kyra though was very new to it all and she had to learn alot of what was good for her. We never started out with intentions to live a M/s dynamic. In fact... she was rather unsure of everything. But she did have some inclinations to a degree. In the beginning Kyra was just an online contact and it grew from there. I never had intentions or expectations of where we are now... in fact.. I am still rather in awe of where we are at this point in our life.

With Alandra... we intuitively walk the path without really knowing all the labels that so many use today. Even back then... I know that I wanted what I called a traditional relationship and Alandra was very much of the same mindset. We didn't call it M/s or anything... the labels didn't matter then and well even with the knowledge of the labels now.... it still doesn't matter. We know what works for us in having a thriving and fullfilling relationship for both of us.

I would say ... that I have been Extremely lucky. Living this way with Alandra and Kyra is extremely easy. A good friend of mine said that In some ways... with Alandra I was extremely lucky but in some ways it wasn't so good. With Alandra it was extremely easy... but I never really understood why it was so easy. I didn't have the knowledge of why our relationship works so well until we ended up in a relationship with some what that dead opposite. When all you know is white... the concept of black is really hard to understand or even appreicate. Because of that experience.... it was much easier to understand what I needed for an appropriate partner for my relationship style as well as HOW I can help them in that relationship. When Kyra came into my life... I was very self-aware and as such.... I think it made it alot easier for Kyra than it otherwise would of been.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to elleX)

Post #: 32

RE: opinion of Masters required please - 12/22/2009 9:41:30 AM

sunshinemiss

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Joined: 11/26/2007
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Best definition to differentiate between submissive and slave that I have read:

If she's mine, she's a slave. If she's yours, she's a submissive.

YMMV

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 33

RE: opinion of Masters required please - 12/24/2009 1:48:06 AM

relaxedlondon

Posts: 1
Joined: 12/5/2009
Status: offline

There are probably as many definitions of the difference between submissive and slave as there are raindrops. It's about the relationship between dominant and submissive, that's all that matters. Too many people have read The Story of O or the Gor books and think that's what it means to be a slave. Well, it can be, but for most people that's simply impractical.

Most of us live in the real world where we have to strike a balance between D/s or M/s and the rest of life.

(in reply to sunshinemiss)

Post #: 34

RE: opinion of Masters required please - 12/24/2009 7:00:51 AM

osf

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Joined: 10/19/2009
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a working definition i use is a slave is someone that becomes so needful and dependent on the person and relationship that they will do most anything to preserve it

using this definition it's not about the type of relationship, just the need of the one they're in, d/s or nilla

(in reply to relaxedlondon)

Post #: 35

RE: opinion of Masters required please - 12/24/2009 7:10:07 AM

Rednekcol

Posts: 15
Joined: 4/3/2006
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I am completely aware that this is only my opinion, and is like different from many others. I expect, however, that there are others that look at it this in a similar respect.

Let me begin by saying that that which I am looking for is probably what many people would call a Master/slave relationship. TPE, 24/7, any of the other terms people use for it. That said, I am usually much more attracted to those on this site that indicate themselves as submissives than as slaves, but I have seen profiles in both categories that appeal.

Why do I say I am looking for either one? In reality, for the simple fact I just stated: I have seen people on here who label themselves both ways that I would be interested in getting to know, and potentially trying to form such a relationship with. And so, when I search, I search for both; I only feel it is appropriate that others who might look at my profile see the same latitude. I would hate for someone who would be perfect for me but calls herself a slave to look at my profile and find out I am only looking for submissives, and thus turn away.

I do understand what the OP means about a slave being willing to be a slave from the onset. For me, that seems like an odd idea. Not that I believe things have to move slowly; I have known submissives who have the remarkable ability to trust and give very quickly, who can accept a very nearly complete power exchange right from the start. Does that make them a slave? Perhaps, by some definitions at least. I have also known those that take much longer to open up that far. I don't feel that they are any less a slave than the others, but perhaps some would consider them not to be slaves until they reach a certain level of power transfer.

I seem to be digressing, but there is one more semi-relevant note I would like to make. I commented that I find many more submissive profiles attractive than slave profiles. I feel this is because there is a larger percentage of slave profiles that simply put out there that they are looking to be used, degraded, and hurt in any possible extreme way. Not that I want to judge, but that isn't at all what I am looking for. While humiliation play, pain, and the rest can be great fun in play, that isnt what I really want as the basis of a relationship. Long before I connect with someone on that level, there would need to be an intellectual and emotional connection. Often times, I find submissive profiles to indicate that this sort of connection would be possible, more often than the slave profiles.

(in reply to relaxedlondon)

Post #: 36

RE: opinion of Masters required please - 12/24/2009 8:15:08 AM

osf

Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
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two movies i recommend

of human bondage, kinda maudlin

the remains of the day,, thought provoking

(in reply to Rednekcol)

Post #: 37

RE: opinion of Masters required please - 12/24/2009 9:05:49 AM

happylittlepet

Posts: 289
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

a working definition i use is a slave is someone that becomes so needful and dependent on the person and relationship that they will do most anything to preserve it

using this definition it's not about the type of relationship, just the need of the one they're in, d/s or nilla

As I have read in other threads as well, if this is the goal of the dominant partner, what happens to the submissive when the dominant is no longer able to function?

Is it in the best interest of the submissive partner to become this needy and dependent? Is it even beneficial to enter a relationship like this in the first place?

Any partner in an intimate relationship who seems addicted to being in that relationship would do good to think about why this 'need' exists.

This is, to me, where a submissive is most vulnerable, and where it becomes easy to be taken advantage of. Especially when a submissive does not know/understand herself in this area.

If the need to preserve the relationship exceeds the healthy judgement of the submissive/slave, I am hesitant to speak of a consensual relationship.

Also, I question the motives of dominants who foster this kind of dependency. To me, vulnerablity like this attracts predators.

_____________________________

There are no rules, there is only compassion.

Simple religion:
There is no need for temples,
No need for complicated philosophies
My brain and my heart are my temples
My philosophy is kindness (DL)

'There's a fire burning in my heart'

(in reply to osf)

Post #: 38

RE: opinion of Masters required please - 12/24/2009 9:25:01 AM

sexyred1

Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

to me the two are so open to interpretation as to have no difference in actual meaning

to say blonds were slaves and brunettes were subbies would give the words criteria

as it is there is no measurable criteria to tell the difference

if she obeys and makes an effort to pleas me, thats all i ask

Oy, osf....

Blondes are slaves and Brunettes are subs...so what are redheads?

If something is open to interpretation, then there is no actual meaning, get it? The definitions and labels that one places on themselves and their relationships are only defined by them and not others. Therefore it does not matter what the actual meaning is.

Unless you are taking an SAT or vocabulary test, then the standard definitions, ie. dictionary, etc. are relevant. But in defining relationships between people, I don't apply conventional definitions to anyone, including myself.

(in reply to osf)

Post #: 39

RE: opinion of Masters required please - 12/24/2009 9:39:22 AM

sexyred1

Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

two movies i recommend

of human bondage, kinda maudlin

the remains of the day,, thought provoking

Both great films, but what bearing on this discussion do they have? They are both about the choices people make in their lives; there are no D/s overtones.

If you are recommending a film from that genre, that does have D/s overtones, The Blue Angel is interesting. However, I don't entirely agree that the humiliation experienced by the protagonist is entirely consensual.

(in reply to osf)

Post #: 40

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