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RE: Bettering yourself for others - 12/20/2009 12:58:46 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: alittleevil

I don't see this as "continually changing" myself so much as simply doing what is required to please Master, which in itself is happy-making to me, even if it is not something i myself would choose to do for myself.

10 points.


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(in reply to alittleevil)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Bettering yourself for others - 12/20/2009 1:12:13 PM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline 		come to think about it, i better myself for myself. its me who has to live with me the whole time. i adapt and change for the Dominant im with, but even then, im pretty sure what i adapt and change is for my benefit ultimately.

there was a guy on here a week or so ago, whose idea of 'bettering' his sub was to make her fat, lazy and useless.

its an interesting thought maybe that when we fix up with a D im sure we spend a little time working out for ourselves if he is the sort of person we would wish to adapt and change for.

if the man has morals, scruples, ethics and a world view that suits our own then we are far more likely to go that way than with someone whose morals, scruples and ethics are a world apart from ours.

so really, how much are we really changing and adapting or 'bettering' - isnt it really that we are responding to the caring guidance of someone who sees our potential and has the self discipline we lack to get our fat bums to the gym and to stop us eating those sweeties.

< Message edited by lally2 -- 12/20/2009 1:13:43 PM >

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So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to NihilusZero)
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RE: Bettering yourself for others - 12/20/2009 1:12:40 PM   
Lucienne


Posts: 1175
Joined: 9/5/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23

That you can't see from the other perspective is self-evident from your question.  People do not ask others to explain what is clearly evident to them, and if you understood the other perspective that explanation would have been clearly evident.



Being able to see things from multiple perspectives is not the same thing as claiming omniscience.

(in reply to Psychonaut23)
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RE: Bettering yourself for others - 12/20/2009 2:07:06 PM   
alittleevil


Posts: 235
Joined: 10/25/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

10 points.



*happy Snoopy dance*

:-),
aj


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RE: Bettering yourself for others - 12/20/2009 2:10:36 PM   
Underumam


Posts: 485
Joined: 12/18/2008
Status: offline 		Ever since I was wee-laddie, I have been aware of the need for constant personal betterment. As a child,it resulted in gaining the acolaydes of parents, teachers etc. Now, as a mature submissive male, it shows through my devotion to "inner beliefs" of a spiritual nature, and ideally, guided by the Domina in my life. Finding one who underestands and needs this from her submissive is rare, but I won't rest until I find her.

I'm finally feeling the circular energy flow though Ms.Donna, as so much has been coming out naturally,and so far the inspiration seems to be endess. Trying to put words on this type of feeling not only can't do it justice,but is next to impossible. All I can say is that I feel blessed beyond my wildest dreams....

(in reply to Psychonaut23)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Bettering yourself for others - 12/20/2009 2:16:24 PM   
EbonyWood


Posts: 2044
Joined: 7/8/2005
Status: offline 		No one should batter themselves, unless they have some kind of fried fish fantasy.
 
I hope I got the topic right, I don't have my glasses.

(in reply to SomethingCatchy)
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RE: Bettering yourself for others - 12/20/2009 2:24:08 PM   
Lucienne


Posts: 1175
Joined: 9/5/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne
quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23
That you can't see from the other perspective is self-evident from your question.  People do not ask others to explain what is clearly evident to them, and if you understood the other perspective that explanation would have been clearly evident.

Being able to see things from multiple perspectives is not the same thing as claiming omniscience.


...that's true.  It doesn't address the point at all, but it is true.

Here's the issue:  The OP is claiming that she can see things from [perspective X] immediately after asking a question whose answer would be obvious to someone who could see things from [perspective X].



Since you don't claim to be able to see things from [perspective X], how is it that you are certain the answer would be obvious from that perspective? Do you really think there is only one, obvious, answer to the OP's question from a submissive perspective? If so, from whence did this certainty come?



(in reply to Psychonaut23)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Bettering yourself for others - 12/20/2009 2:44:19 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		I've heard that a lot of people can't maintain weight loss, exercise, stopping smoking, etc. if it is done to please a partner rather than for themselves. However, some people *are* very other-motivated, and certainly support from one's partner is helpful. I enjoy doing things to improve myself, but I also want to specifically make changes (whether or not I view them as improvements, necessarily) when my Master desires that of me. It's a very direct expression of submission, being molded by him in that way to better suit him. Even when I've dated a submissive man, or bottoms or tops or switches without any D/s component, I want them to have interests, hobbies, etc. that I don't have any experience with. It's good to stretch myself into new areas, try new things, and even better *with* someone I love. It makes me feel like *they* are a more interesting person/partner as well.

(in reply to SomethingCatchy)
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RE: Bettering yourself for others - 12/20/2009 2:49:42 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23

quote:

Actually, I'm a switch, I just don't meet many people who inspire submission from me. I can see everything from both points of view.


Allow me to piss off a bunch of people by suggesting that isn't being a switch, and that is actually entirely normal for a dominant.  Being dominant doesn't mean you can't recognize and respond to people with more natural authority than you have when you happen to run across them.  It just means you don't wake up in the morning thinking "I wish someone would tell me what to do with my life."  And you don't seek those people out.

And no, you can't see from both points of view.  If that were true, you'd never have asked the question you asked.

Now that's just silly. Someone who is both Dominant and submissive in the context of their romantic relationships is by definition a switch. There are plenty of people who have natural authority who I wouldn't want to be involved with.

(in reply to Psychonaut23)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Bettering yourself for others - 12/20/2009 4:41:28 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite
quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23
Allow me to piss off a bunch of people by suggesting that isn't being a switch, and that is actually entirely normal for a dominant.  Being dominant doesn't mean you can't recognize and respond to people with more natural authority than you have when you happen to run across them.  It just means you don't wake up in the morning thinking "I wish someone would tell me what to do with my life."  And you don't seek those people out.

Now that's just silly. Someone who is both Dominant and submissive in the context of their romantic relationships is by definition a switch.


Okay, but you're talking about role-playing.  If two partners can switch roles back and forth, then neither is ever actually dominant or submissive.  They're egalitarians, existing somewhere on the continuum between dominant and submissive.



Perhaps you should consider that just beccause you can't imagine it as being so, that doesn't mean that it can't be someone else's reality.

The beauty about identity is that it is absolutely 100% true for the person in question. And in the end, that is all that matters, that and being able to convey to those who matter to them who it is that they are.

- LA

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RE: Bettering yourself for others - 12/20/2009 4:43:43 PM   
GoddessImaginos


Posts: 1493
Joined: 8/5/2009
From: A small blue planet near Alpha Centauri
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quote:



Perhaps you should consider that just because you can't imagine it as being so, that doesn't mean that it can't be someone else's reality.

The beauty about identity is that it is absolutely 100% true for the person in question. And in the end, that is all that matters, that and being able to convey to those who matter to them who it is that they are.

- LA


~*AMEN*~

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(in reply to LadyAngelika)
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RE: Bettering yourself for others - 12/20/2009 4:45:55 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23
I think there is only one answer to the question of why someone would write "...for the glory of HER master." and expect a response from submissives, and that answer is "Because Doms who understand what they are doing understand that what submissives want is the sense of something outside of themselves that is greater than themselves, that will give them purpose and meaning."


That is definitely one way of seeing a D/s dynamic. I consider myself to be a Domme who understands what she is doing and I see it slightly differently.

Firstly, I refuse to be what gives a boy purpose and meaning. He has to have discovered this before coming to me. I am however willing to embark in a partnership with him where the Dominant and submissive roles are clearly defined because it is what suits our personalities and desires the best. Together, we will encourage one another to be the best that we can be.

For the OP, I think this was a very valid thread to start. You show your intelligence by the questions you ask, by teasing apart the subtleties in the hopes of better understanding.

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Bettering yourself for others - 12/20/2009 4:55:45 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I'm 54 years old, nearly 55. My appearance isn't going to get better but worse as father time shows his ravages on my skin. Exercise or not, joints get old and creaky and gracefulness decreases not improves.

Beyond that, the stuff I'm good at I happen to be more than good enough at. I don't need to be obsessive that when I cut a tray of brownies, they are all perfectly even and good enough to be on a bakery shelf. Because they're not for sale, they're for my family to eat. And there is no good reason for me to waste half an hour on presentation when nobody would notice it. I can do a lot of other stuff in that half hour including getting off my feet.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Bettering yourself for others - 12/20/2009 5:16:25 PM   
Lucienne


Posts: 1175
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne
Since you don't claim to be able to see things from [perspective X], how is it that you are certain the answer would be obvious from that perspective?


My intuition tells me so.  Cheap answer, but I doubt you want to read a long, braggy explanation of how being a writer has highly tuned my skill for synthesizing perspectives other than my own.


On the contrary, I bet I'd be pretty amused by what a guy who thought it was impressive and/or relevant to mention that he was a criminal justice major considers to be a braggy explanation.

quote:

quote:

Do you really think there is only one, obvious, answer to the OP's question from a submissive perspective?


I think there is only one answer to the question of why someone would write "...for the glory of HER master." and expect a response from submissives, and that answer is "Because Doms who understand what they are doing understand that what submissives want is the sense of something outside of themselves that is greater than themselves, that will give them purpose and meaning."


That answer is from the dom perspective. You stated, in a fairly abrasive fashion, that the OP clearly couldn't see it from a submissive perspective. Perhaps you think that submissives are blank slates awaiting the imprint of a dom, in which case I guess what you said to the OP almost makes sense. Except that it would seem that she should, by your terms and definitions, be able to grasp Ron's perspective. Unless you're stating that she's not a dominant who understands what she's doing. Which seems like a hasty conclusion given the small amount of information you have to work with. Kind of like that whole "liar or idiot" bit.

quote:

quote:

If so, from whence did this certainty come?


Certainty is my stock and trade.  I'm always right.  It's my twue Domness shining through.

I have to admit, I'm always a bit bewildered by this question.  What's it like to walk around in a haze of uncertainity, always wondering if you actually know what you're doing?  I've never experienced that.



Ah, we've apparently found the limit of your ability to "synthesize perspectives" other than your own. I understand that many people can't tolerate ambiguity and seek solace instead in an irrational sense of certainty. It's actually a pretty handy way to conduct one's life. Until it's not. Because it's not really necessary to be certain you are right to take action and move forward. And a false sense of certainty can cause you to miss a lot of information that might challenge your certitude.

(in reply to Psychonaut23)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Bettering yourself for others - 12/20/2009 5:34:01 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Therefore it's wrong.

And you are the authority on everything that is right and wrong? Good luck with that!

I love a healthy debate, but I learned a long time ago that debating with people who hold tight to absolutes is perhaps one of the most masochistic acts one can engage in. My subtle masochistic streak (oh shit, I just revealed one those paradox, self-contradicting claims) isn't strong enough to go head on with your over inflated sense of being right.

Since you are so keen in analysing people's profiles, how about this little tidbit in yours:
quote:

I have minimal BDSM experience, but have read extensively and am very ready to start putting some theory into praxis.


Maybe you want to get out of the theory and into the real world. You can sit back, read, ask question, gain the respect of intelligent submissive women rather than make a fool out of yourself.

- LA

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Bettering yourself for others - 12/20/2009 5:37:28 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
The beauty about identity is that it is absolutely 100% true for the person in question. And in the end, that is all that matters, that and being able to convey to those who matter to them who it is that they are.


Oh please, what a load of wank that is.

If that's the case, then identity is meaningless, a self-delusion and nothing more.  If people with complete disparate personality types can both identify as the same personality type, then it means nothing to say either of them is that personality type, because it means nothing.



Since you like theory so much, read Judith Butler, Eve Kosofsky Sedgwick and other post-structuralists on Identity Theory. Though it mostly tackles gender/queer identity, the basic tennets are transferable.

- LA

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Bettering yourself for others - 12/20/2009 5:55:27 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

My brief interaction with her mostly left me with the impression she was an idiot.


Funny, most of the posts that I've seen from her have been well received. I have a feeling many intelligent individuals on this board will be saying the same about you soon if you don't get rid of that God complex.

- LA

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Bettering yourself for others - 12/20/2009 5:59:48 PM   
Lucienne


Posts: 1175
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23
words



Well, aren't you just delightfully full of shit? Full of alleged insight as to the weakness of others but incapable of noticing that you're contradicting yourself from post to post.

Welcome to the boards. I suspect you won't learn much, but you should be entertaining.

(in reply to Psychonaut23)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Bettering yourself for others - 12/20/2009 6:01:22 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23
words



Well, aren't you just delightfully full of shit? Full of alleged insight as to the weakness of others but incapable of noticing that you're contradicting yourself from post to post.

Welcome to the boards. I suspect you won't learn much, but you should be entertaining.



Lucienne, at least he will provide amusement! I can't wait to see how long he lasts when the really smart submissive women et al. hand him his ass!

- LA

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Bettering yourself for others - 12/20/2009 6:05:00 PM   
Lucienne


Posts: 1175
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23

ETA: Methinks it may be bedtime.  I'm a good six or seven hours past the 24 hours awake mark, and I have a hangover.



Just to be clear, are you claiming cocaine or sleep-deprivation as your alibi?

(in reply to Psychonaut23)
Profile   Post #: 40
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