RE: Saudis to Kill TV Advice Show Host for Sorcery (Full Version)

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LadyEllen -> RE: Saudis to Kill TV Advice Show Host for Sorcery (12/22/2009 12:04:26 PM)

Meanwhile in China next Tuesday theyre going to execute a Brit for smuggling heroin; regardless that such Brit has raging bipolar disorder and has even less idea of the difference between reality and imagination than the Saudi Courts system.

E




tsatske -> RE: Saudis to Kill TV Advice Show Host for Sorcery (12/22/2009 12:18:52 PM)

And we are more than happy to put up mothers who kill their inncent children in the rages of post partum depression for the death penalty, while the Brits send them off to get treatement. We regularly excute those of severely lowered mental capacity. Bet the Europeans think we are barbarians. Oh, wait, that would be because we are.




LadyEllen -> RE: Saudis to Kill TV Advice Show Host for Sorcery (12/22/2009 12:26:59 PM)

Indeed Tsatske - we hear of such cases quite regularly over here, through a bunch of lawyers we have who try to sort them out.

But barbarians? No. I am confident that its the system thats at fault from what I have heard, in most of these cases; so often we hear that the evidence presented by the prosecution is lamentably poor and evidence for the defence often not presented at all, still less often is any account taken of the serious psychological problems or low IQ of the person convicted at sentencing.

Add to that the problems of a system that doesnt have sufficient flexibility in it and where adequate defence relies on having the money to pay for it and the recipe is prepared. Mind you that same factor is present here too - but then although people do get serious sentences of imprisonment any errors are much easier to rectify later than they are if someone is wrongly executed.

E




Musicmystery -> RE: Saudis to Kill TV Advice Show Host for Sorcery (12/22/2009 12:30:08 PM)

Just kill 'em!

Humanity's magic solution.




Aneirin -> RE: Saudis to Kill TV Advice Show Host for Sorcery (12/22/2009 12:52:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

How amusing that some ascribe the benign presence of modern Christianity to the very nature of Christianity itself, whilst condemning another religion they know even less about as being inherently evil and wrong.

Make no mistake, without the castration it suffered through the renaissance and the enlightenment periods and since, Christianity would be no different today than it was for its first thousand years or so in Europe, a vicious, jealous, covetous and unholy justification for every sort of ill and violence available to it in its progress to total domination.

The really amusing part is that it was Islam that maintained and developed the science and learning of the ancient world, that Christianity had suppressed with fire and sword for centuries, and it was from that source that the renaissance and subsequent enlightenment sprang, all the way down to our modern world. Without it, we'd likely be suicide bombing Muslims and fleeing Muslim troops right now and vilified as Muslism are today by some.

E




You have it backwards. It is not ascribing the current benign presence of Christianity to its roots. Everyone recognizes the atrocities committed in the name of Christ. the point is that it IS different today. Islam (as practiced by the extremists who have at least the implicit support of the moderates) is not, it is the same barbaric moral code it always was.


Not so,

If you consider to look into the past, to a town called Cordoba of the then Moorish Al Andalus, circa 850 ad, you will see the conquerors, the Moors lived in peace with the conquered of the region, even the conquered people's religion was tolerated, churches were permitted in Islamic held towns, and worship at these churches was permitted, no problems. Now, insulting Islam was a crime punishable by death for both Muslim, and Non Muslim, the law, Sharia law was in use, and everyone knew where they stood. Now something happened, a Christian priest I believe made his intentions clear that he wished to convert to Islam, just like many other non muslims of the region were doing to take advantage of the elevated status Moslems held in the conquered territories. So the authorities gave him lessons on Islamic scripture, but when it came to his conversion, instead of converting, he let rip insults and blasphemies toward the God of the Muslims, Allah. Now, the penalty for such crimes for anyone was death, but the priest was not immediately put to death, the authorities believed he was off his head, so he was given a chance to convert, but he let rip insults and blasphemies again, I believe he even got another chance after that, but in the end, the authorities unhappily had to implement the law. From that point on the Cordoba Martyrs set off the anti Muslim feeling, and all of it caused by breaking the law, and insulting another person's religion, something we know not to do now.

The bottom line, the law, is the law, Sharia law has the serious positive that penaties for wrong doing is set down, so everyone is forewarned, totally unlike western law, where a penalty can be anything, from big to small, depending on the minds of men, and so forth with politics, power, wealth, influence, all that stuff that comes into play in the west. Sharia is there for everyone, but penalties are not thrown about willy nilly, the muslims take into account madness, and the possibility of madness, they don't want to implement the so called atrocities, it is just those who uphold the law are subject to it, they have to implement it, because it is the law, Sharia law.





Brain -> RE: Saudis to Kill TV Advice Show Host for Sorcery (12/22/2009 1:22:26 PM)

Life in prison too, I don't suppose it's inappropriate.


BBC News - Pakistan court orders ears and noses to be cut off

A Pakistani court has ordered that two men have their ears and noses cut off, as punishment for doing the same to a woman who refused to marry one of them.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8425820.stm
.




Moonhead -> RE: Saudis to Kill TV Advice Show Host for Sorcery (12/22/2009 1:42:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
The really amusing part is that it was Islam that maintained and developed the science and learning of the ancient world, that Christianity had suppressed with fire and sword for centuries, and it was from that source that the renaissance and subsequent enlightenment sprang, all the way down to our modern world. Without it, we'd likely be suicide bombing Muslims and fleeing Muslim troops right now and vilified as Muslism are today by some.

It'd be amusing if it was true, Ellen, but it isn't. There's a load of libraries that were burned during the collapse of the Roman empire to expose that story as a pile of shit.
Sorry, but surely you've heard that story about the "if this heathen nonsense agrees with the prophet then it's redundant and if it doesn't it's an abomination" line that was used to justify destroying the library at Alexandria?




LadyEllen -> RE: Saudis to Kill TV Advice Show Host for Sorcery (12/22/2009 2:23:07 PM)

?

The library at Alexandria was burned down by Christian zealots, along with many others I should fancy.

The ancient science of the Eastern Empire was taken up by the Muslims; our first interaction with it as Germanics was during the Crusades during which we were exposed as ignorant, supersitious, illiterate and unwashed idiots next to the Muslim enemy.

If you have sources that point to the destruction of ancient science by Islam and the ignorance, superstition, illiteracy and lack of sanitation of the Muslims at the time then I'd be pleased to learn about it.

E




ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Saudis to Kill TV Advice Show Host for Sorcery (12/22/2009 2:37:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Indeed Tsatske - we hear of such cases quite regularly over here, through a bunch of lawyers we have who try to sort them out.

But barbarians? No. I am confident that its the system thats at fault from what I have heard...


Yes, but - who but barbarians would have such a system in the first place?




Moonhead -> RE: Saudis to Kill TV Advice Show Host for Sorcery (12/22/2009 3:02:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

?

The library at Alexandria was burned down by Christian zealots, along with many others I should fancy.

The ancient science of the Eastern Empire was taken up by the Muslims; our first interaction with it as Germanics was during the Crusades during which we were exposed as ignorant, supersitious, illiterate and unwashed idiots next to the Muslim enemy.

If you have sources that point to the destruction of ancient science by Islam and the ignorance, superstition, illiteracy and lack of sanitation of the Muslims at the time then I'd be pleased to learn about it.

E

Gibbons Decline And Fall Of The Roman Empire, for a start.
Christians have burned a lot of books, of course, but Muslims are no slouches in this regard either. Certainly they did their best to destroy any learning the Eastern Empire had preserved that was at odds with the Prophet's word. THe only reason they didn't burn the mathematics books is probably because there weren't any pictures in them.
I stand corrected about Alexandria, though. I was certain that library was burned during one of the muslim occupations (wiki cites the 642 one), but it seems there's some doubt about that.




Moonhead -> RE: Saudis to Kill TV Advice Show Host for Sorcery (12/22/2009 3:06:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

?

The library at Alexandria was burned down by Christian zealots, along with many others I should fancy.

The ancient science of the Eastern Empire was taken up by the Muslims; our first interaction with it as Germanics was during the Crusades during which we were exposed as ignorant, supersitious, illiterate and unwashed idiots next to the Muslim enemy.

If you have sources that point to the destruction of ancient science by Islam and the ignorance, superstition, illiteracy and lack of sanitation of the Muslims at the time then I'd be pleased to learn about it.

E

Actually, while we're on this, wasn't Mohammed illiterate?




Moonhead -> RE: Saudis to Kill TV Advice Show Host for Sorcery (12/22/2009 3:07:57 PM)

And having another look at Wiki, the story about the Coptics burning the library of Alexandria doesn't seem to hold any water, so I'd better retract that retraction.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Saudis to Kill TV Advice Show Host for Sorcery (12/22/2009 3:54:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I wonder what the population of that Cathar town might have been? Could easily have been in the thousands. You know, that one where the Christian Taliban couldnt tell the Cathars from the townspeople and killed the lot as God would sort them out?

E


I think you missed my point about evolving.




Moonhead -> RE: Saudis to Kill TV Advice Show Host for Sorcery (12/22/2009 4:00:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I wonder what the population of that Cathar town might have been? Could easily have been in the thousands. You know, that one where the Christian Taliban couldnt tell the Cathars from the townspeople and killed the lot as God would sort them out?

E


I think you missed my point about evolving.

Either that or you're being deliberately obtuse in order to avoid understanding a point you don't like. I wonder which is the more likely?




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Saudis to Kill TV Advice Show Host for Sorcery (12/22/2009 4:50:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I wonder what the population of that Cathar town might have been? Could easily have been in the thousands. You know, that one where the Christian Taliban couldnt tell the Cathars from the townspeople and killed the lot as God would sort them out?

E


I think you missed my point about evolving.

Either that or you're being deliberately obtuse in order to avoid understanding a point you don't like. I wonder which is the more likely?



That you missed my point since the latter is patently false.




Musicmystery -> RE: Saudis to Kill TV Advice Show Host for Sorcery (12/22/2009 8:15:45 PM)

Either way, around here Ockham has a full beard.




Arpig -> RE: Saudis to Kill TV Advice Show Host for Sorcery (12/22/2009 8:18:56 PM)

quote:

Either way, around here Ockham has a full beard.
LMAO!!!!!!




Arrogance -> RE: Saudis to Kill TV Advice Show Host for Sorcery (12/22/2009 10:35:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Life in prison too, I don't suppose it's inappropriate.


BBC News - Pakistan court orders ears and noses to be cut off

A Pakistani court has ordered that two men have their ears and noses cut off, as punishment for doing the same to a woman who refused to marry one of them.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8425820.stm
.


Without reading the article, at least that seems fair.




GotSteel -> RE: Saudis to Kill TV Advice Show Host for Sorcery (12/23/2009 4:21:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
Exactly. A religion is a religion is a religion. I see no difference between one religious fundamentalist and any other religious fundamentalist.


While I agree with what you wrote after this, I do have to disagree with you on this, not all religions are equally harmful. The ones that go on and on about never doing any harm sometimes do less harm then the ones which go on an on about killing the infidel.




Aneirin -> RE: Saudis to Kill TV Advice Show Host for Sorcery (12/23/2009 5:14:23 AM)

Except in countries where to this day, they, albeit a large, powerful  and certain sect of, are there as aid to the people, various parts of Africa for instance and though they are fully aware of the major health risk to the people, they will not supply or advocate the use of condoms to help stem the impact of the disease. Is that not the same as allowing the suffering and deaths of people because of a stupid bit scripture, what is written and interpreted in yet another holy guide book.




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