Are We To Bomb Iran's Nuclear Facilities ?

Are We To Bomb Iran's Nuclear Facilities ? (Full Version)

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vincentML -> Are We To Bomb Iran's Nuclear Facilities ? (12/24/2009 5:03:23 AM)
This opinion piece is in today's NYT. The author advocates the bombing of Iran's nuclear facilities. Please read his arguments before you answer. Is this a righteous action? What do you believe? This is his argument in summary: "There’s Only One Way to Stop Iran Negotiation to prevent nuclear proliferation is always preferable to military action. But in the face of failed diplomacy, eschewing force is tantamount to appeasement. We have reached the point where air strikes are the only plausible option with any prospect of preventing Iran’s acquisition of nuclear weapons. Postponing military action merely provides Iran a window to expand, disperse and harden its nuclear facilities against attack. The sooner the United States takes action, the better." Alan J. Kuperman is the director of the Nuclear Proliferation Prevention Program at the University of Texas at Austin. Here is the link Not a pleasant Holiday contemplation I'm afraid.

Arpig -> RE: Are We To Bomb Iran's Nuclear Facilities ? (12/24/2009 5:48:55 AM)
I certainly hope you don't...that would be one hell of a can of worms to open. Iran has plenty of troops with easy access to both Afghanistan & Iraq, as well as Pakistan....and perhaps more importantly they have mucho dineros, enough to fund jihadists from now to kingdom come. The US (or even all of NATO for that matter) don't have enough troops to occupy the whole middle east and you can be damned sure the Russians will have something to say about any serious US intervention into Iran, something that is often overlooked. When we went into Afghanistan, we had the world's sympathy & Russia was on our side, something that isn't quite so clearcut anymore. I may be wrong, maybe the Russians are more worried about nukes next door in Iran than we are, I know I would be if I were them, but these days its hard to guess just what they are thinking. It seems to me that every time the west intervenes somewhere it just seems to drag us into yet another intervention...Afghanistan, then Iraq, now most probably Pakistan, and possibly Iran....where next, Syria? Saudi? Kazhakstan?

housesub4you -> RE: Are We To Bomb Iran's Nuclear Facilities ? (12/24/2009 6:38:17 AM)
Because Bolton started this screwing line of thinking??? We should listen to him??? I mean he was so right when it came to Iraq, and how if we explain to the people we are not bombing them, but the powers that be, the people will suppoort us like heros??? Give me a break http://thinkprogress.org/2009/12/23/bolton-iran-public-diplomacy/

LadyEllen -> RE: Are We To Bomb Iran's Nuclear Facilities ? (12/24/2009 6:44:23 AM)
Best get Russia, the Asian former Soviet states and China on side first. And best get that started now, because the Israelis arent going to wait around for us to catch up from what I hear. E

vincentML -> RE: Are We To Bomb Iran's Nuclear Facilities ? (12/24/2009 6:54:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig I certainly hope you don't...that would be one hell of a can of worms to open. Iran has plenty of troops with easy access to both Afghanistan & Iraq, as well as Pakistan....and perhaps more importantly they have mucho dineros, enough to fund jihadists from now to kingdom come. The US (or even all of NATO for that matter) don't have enough troops to occupy the whole middle east and you can be damned sure the Russians will have something to say about any serious US intervention into Iran, something that is often overlooked. When we went into Afghanistan, we had the world's sympathy & Russia was on our side, something that isn't quite so clearcut anymore. I may be wrong, maybe the Russians are more worried about nukes next door in Iran than we are, I know I would be if I were them, but these days its hard to guess just what they are thinking. It seems to me that every time the west intervenes somewhere it just seems to drag us into yet another intervention...Afghanistan, then Iraq, now most probably Pakistan, and possibly Iran....where next, Syria? Saudi? Kazhakstan? My guess is the Russians are not comfortable having our troops near their borders. Perhaps not so much they fear an invasion (although American troops did invade Russia to fight on the side of the White Army in 1918 or so) but as a matter of National image and self-esteem. Perhaps strategically as there has been the continuing threat of NATO Alliance attempts to include nations in what Russia considers it's sphere of influence, the near abroad. (Georgia, Ukraine) etc. Wonder if we should be ready for the day China forms a military alliance with Cuba? Probably not until they have built up their Carrier fleet.

vincentML -> RE: Are We To Bomb Iran's Nuclear Facilities ? (12/24/2009 6:58:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: housesub4you Because Bolton started this screwing line of thinking??? We should listen to him??? I mean he was so right when it came to Iraq, and how if we explain to the people we are not bombing them, but the powers that be, the people will suppoort us like heros??? Give me a break http://thinkprogress.org/2009/12/23/bolton-iran-public-diplomacy/ I sympathise with your distrust. But Kuperman points to dire consequences if no action is taken. The Iranian Premier has taken to bragging of Iran's nuclear enrichment progress. So, despite the distrust, would this be a righteous action?

vincentML -> RE: Are We To Bomb Iran's Nuclear Facilities ? (12/24/2009 7:01:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Best get Russia, the Asian former Soviet states and China on side first. And best get that started now, because the Israelis arent going to wait around for us to catch up from what I hear. E I wonder how you get them all on board. I have read there is great angst amonst the "moderate" Arab nations at the prospect of a nuclear armed Persian State. But has China showed any concern, do you know?

Moonhead -> RE: Are We To Bomb Iran's Nuclear Facilities ? (12/24/2009 7:12:29 AM)
On a related note to that, the moderate arab states are very happy for Israel to be there and propped up by the 'States as it gives the idiots who think it's still the fourteenth century somebody else to pick on. As soon as Israel's gone, Qatar won't be around for very long, and Palestine is going to get carved up between whoever turns up first. quote: The Iranian Premier has taken to bragging of Iran's nuclear enrichment progress. So, despite the distrust, would this be a righteous action? I take your point, but Ahmenidenejad is notoriously full of shit. Why is anybody believing him any more about this than they were about his claims that the Iranian election wasn't rigged?

LadyEllen -> RE: Are We To Bomb Iran's Nuclear Facilities ? (12/24/2009 7:28:35 AM)
I have no idea what the Chinese think regarding Iran, but I'd be fairly sure they wouldnt appreciate more US/western involvement in the region; "we" are already in Iraq, Saudi, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India and those Whatsitstan former Soviet states in central Asia as well as Japan, S Korea and so on. I would also not be at all surprised if China didnt have some good trade going with Iran too and regard them as friends in the diplomatic sense. I would expect the Russians see things in a similar way for similar reasons. There is no question that "we" have to take action here if diplomacy fails. The only real question is as to the risk/benefit analysis - what will the fallout be and how will it affect us, will we achieve our aims in deterring proliferation? If all we achieve is delaying and inconveniencing Iran whilst stirring up more radical Muslim attacks on us then one has to question the proposal for air strikes and if one is serious about the threat one must consider escalation - with the potential for even greater fallout of even greater impact on us. E

housesub4you -> RE: Are We To Bomb Iran's Nuclear Facilities ? (12/24/2009 7:41:43 AM)
Well, Thank G. Bush for making us stronger by starting a war based on lies, so if this is a "real" threat we are in no position to have a third war started. I can't believe any of the people who told us how dire was our need to invade Iraq, they got everything wrong and now they are crying wold once again, As to the "dire consequences", we have heard that line before about Iraq, it turned out dire but for all the wrong reasons

Anarrus -> RE: Are We To Bomb Iran's Nuclear Facilities ? (12/24/2009 7:47:20 AM)
~FR~ War...it's what we do best! Peace loving nation my ass.

vincentML -> RE: Are We To Bomb Iran's Nuclear Facilities ? (12/24/2009 7:47:54 AM)
ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: On a related note to that, the moderate arab states are very happy for Israel to be there and propped up by the 'States as it gives the idiots who think it's still the fourteenth century somebody else to pick on. As soon as Israel's gone, Qatar won't be around for very long, and Palestine is going to get carved up between whoever turns up first. Nowhere is this future scenario discussed in the popular media. I wonder if there exists a contingency plan amongst the US military. We seem to be planning for most eventualities. You make an interesting point. quote: vincentML: The Iranian Premier has taken to bragging of Iran's nuclear enrichment progress. So, despite the distrust, would this be a righteous action? quote: I take your point, but Ahmenidenejad is notoriously full of shit. Why is anybody believing him any more about this than they were about his claims that the Iranian election wasn't rigged? He refuses access for the UN Nuclear Inspectors to at least one reactor and will not shut down another per their demand according to the OP-ED

vincentML -> RE: Are We To Bomb Iran's Nuclear Facilities ? (12/24/2009 7:49:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen I have no idea what the Chinese think regarding Iran, but I'd be fairly sure they wouldnt appreciate more US/western involvement in the region; "we" are already in Iraq, Saudi, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India and those Whatsitstan former Soviet states in central Asia as well as Japan, S Korea and so on. I would also not be at all surprised if China didnt have some good trade going with Iran too and regard them as friends in the diplomatic sense. I would expect the Russians see things in a similar way for similar reasons. There is no question that "we" have to take action here if diplomacy fails. The only real question is as to the risk/benefit analysis - what will the fallout be and how will it affect us, will we achieve our aims in deterring proliferation? If all we achieve is delaying and inconveniencing Iran whilst stirring up more radical Muslim attacks on us then one has to question the proposal for air strikes and if one is serious about the threat one must consider escalation - with the potential for even greater fallout of even greater impact on us. E A bloody damn pickle

Marc2b -> RE: Are We To Bomb Iran's Nuclear Facilities ? (12/24/2009 7:55:04 AM)
The whole “talk or bomb” notion is flawed. Information cannot be bottled up forever and fanatics cannot be reasoned with. Sooner or later Iran will get nuclear weapons. We should give up trying to stop them and instead adopt a new policy based upon the old MAD policy. We need to update our own nuclear forces and run a few underground tests so that they (and the rest of the world) has no doubt that we are ready to let loose the fires of Hell if need be. Then we should announce that if any weapon of mass destruction is ever used against the United States or one of our allies – and if it is not blatantly obvious that it was someone else (i.e. Russia or China launching a strike) – then we will blame Iran and launch a full scale retaliatory attack against all of their military facilities and all of their major cities. In other words the complete destruction of Iran will be the result. We might even want to lob a couple of inter-continental missiles (minus the nuke, of course) into downtown Tehran to make sure they get the point. We should include North Korea in this policy as well.

Arpig -> RE: Are We To Bomb Iran's Nuclear Facilities ? (12/24/2009 8:02:04 AM)
While I seriously dislike Marc2b's general strategy, there is no denying that it worked for 40 some odd years with the Russians...and Stalin was as insane as they come. If we are going to mess with the Jihadists & fundamentalists then we had better be prepared to emulate the Israelis...we better be the baddest asses in the sandbox

cuckoldmepls -> RE: Are We To Bomb Iran's Nuclear Facilities ? (12/24/2009 8:16:12 AM)
This administration is anti Israel and led by a Muslim pacifist, so you better believe they would never initiate another confrontation with a Muslim State. Hillary Clinton would have actually made a better President, since she at least has a get tough attitude. In my opinion it's way too late to do anything about Iran. Now if the liberals had not surrendered in Iraq so soon, we may have been able to provide Israel with the support they needed to do the job several years ago. Unfortunately, Bush thought it would hurt the republican party even more if they supported an Israeli strike before the election. I'm not saying Israel can't do anything on their own, but this administration is so anti-Israel that if they did you better believe there would be retribution in any way, shape or form possible. Here's proof that Obama is a muslim http://babelishere.webs.com

LadyEllen -> RE: Are We To Bomb Iran's Nuclear Facilities ? (12/24/2009 8:22:35 AM)
FFS - isnt it time for your nap? E

InvisibleBlack -> RE: Are We To Bomb Iran's Nuclear Facilities ? (12/24/2009 8:30:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML This opinion piece is in today's NYT. The author advocates the bombing of Iran's nuclear facilities. Please read his arguments before you answer. Is this a righteous action? What do you believe? I think that bombing Iran would be a bad idea. We're already bogged down in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. We've managed to destabilize (to use a polite word) the entire region. We've already stirred up the Russians by backing Georgia when that nation launched an unprovoked attack that resulted in the deaths of Russian troops. It's very debatable if Iran violated the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty and if they did, it was purely in the timing of their notification of the IAEA. Under international law, they are allowed to develop nuclear reactors and produce fissionable material. Beyond that, I suspect that any attempt to get the UN Security Council to sanction an attack on Iran would be blocked by either Russia or China. The shape of geopolitics in the past decade reminds me very much of the run-up prior to World War I. You can almost see an "alliance system" falling into place and lines being drawn. An unprovoked attack on Iran could well set off a war across the Middle East and that has the potential to spill out and drag in India, China & Russia. Were I the Commander-In-Chief and responsible for the global strategy of the United States of America, I'd want to be in a much stronger position before I kicked off another war.

LadyEllen -> RE: Are We To Bomb Iran's Nuclear Facilities ? (12/24/2009 8:40:15 AM)
Were I the Commander-In-Chief and responsible for the global strategy of the United States of America, I'd want to be in a much stronger position before I kicked off another war. The US and its allies has Iran surrounded as things stand, with troops and materiel in place for a ground war on two fronts and attack from the sea to the south. Not a bad starting point to be sure - but then such a position must influence Iran in its current position and attitudes seeing from their point of view that the power they kicked out of their country thirty years ago has such a presence and has revealed itself as being belligerent (some would say unlawfully so) over the last years in terms of regime change in the region. E

rulemylife -> RE: Are We To Bomb Iran's Nuclear Facilities ? (12/24/2009 8:57:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls Here's proof that Obama is a muslim http://babelishere.webs.com No, it is only proof that any moron can learn to create a website to tout his baseless opinions.

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