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How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active service. - 12/25/2009 10:47:34 PM

kdsub

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Joined: 8/16/2007
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I have read articles lately about veterans returning home and having problems getting jobs and fitting back into society.

I have an idea and wonder if it would help or work.

In my day most deployments, especially in combat zones, ended with at least 6 months of active duty remaining. I always figured it was to help soldiers adjust from a war footing to a peace footing.

Now I believe one problem with soldiers is they entered the service right from school and had no chance to acquire a life long skill they could use when they returned from the service.

SO…why not set up vocational schools, in these last 6 months or longer before discharge, that could be optional to teach skills that are in need in the general population, lets face it many jobs learned in the service are of no use in the general work force.

In six months imagine the carpenters, plumbers, heavy construction equipment drivers, nurses, X ray techs. These are just a few skills of many in need. It would be great to get companies and unions involved to employ them as apprentices until their skills progress.

What do you think?... Hell for all I know this is already being done but if so on a small scale...I think it should be a large scale…imagine the new skilled workforce based on the needs determined by Health and Human services department or the Department of Commerce.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/25/2009 10:50:19 PM >

_____________________________

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

Post #: 1

RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/25/2009 11:38:08 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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We already have something a hell of a lot better than that, KD. It's called the GI Bill. They'll send you a nice little check every month for years.

Besides, serving an enlistment and collecting an honorable discharge, already guarantees you have some serious job skills sadly lacking in so many applicants. The ability to be on the job, on time, ready to go. A willingness to bust ass without whining, to get dirty, and put the job first. Those alone can carry you far.

I suppose someone who wants to write an article can find whatever they want among veterans. We are a diverse lot. For every guy who came out of infantry, with a drinking problem and can't get a job, there is a guy from artillery who got a bachelors in something marketable without accumulating any student loan debt. I can only guess at what the author of what you were reading wanted to say in his piece.

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 12/25/2009 11:39:11 PM >

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 2

RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/25/2009 11:55:39 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Besides, serving an enlistment and collecting an honorable discharge, already guarantees you have some serious job skills sadly lacking in so many applicants. The ability to be on the job, on time, ready to go. A willingness to bust ass without whining, to get dirty, and put the job first. Those alone can carry you far.

If I have two candidates for the same position, so evenly matched that I can't really give one the edge over the other, I'm almost always going to go with the honorably discharged vet. I've been burned a couple of times that way, but it's paid off a lot more often than not.

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In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
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(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 3

RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 9:49:38 AM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I have read articles lately about veterans returning home and having problems getting jobs and fitting back into society.

I have an idea and wonder if it would help or work.

In my day most deployments, especially in combat zones, ended with at least 6 months of active duty remaining. I always figured it was to help soldiers adjust from a war footing to a peace footing.

Now I believe one problem with soldiers is they entered the service right from school and had no chance to acquire a life long skill they could use when they returned from the service.

SO…why not set up vocational schools, in these last 6 months or longer before discharge, that could be optional to teach skills that are in need in the general population, lets face it many jobs learned in the service are of no use in the general work force.

In six months imagine the carpenters, plumbers, heavy construction equipment drivers, nurses, X ray techs. These are just a few skills of many in need. It would be great to get companies and unions involved to employ them as apprentices until their skills progress.

What do you think?... Hell for all I know this is already being done but if so on a small scale...I think it should be a large scale…imagine the new skilled workforce based on the needs determined by Health and Human services department or the Department of Commerce.

Butch

I have said before and I'll say it again--I'd readily support free education for exactly this and similar reasons.

Gov. Cuomo tried to do it early in his tenure in NY. He was crucified for it.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 4

RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 10:53:55 AM

flcouple2009

Posts: 2784
Joined: 1/8/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

We already have something a hell of a lot better than that, KD. It's called the GI Bill. They'll send you a nice little check every month for years.

Besides, serving an enlistment and collecting an honorable discharge, already guarantees you have some serious job skills sadly lacking in so many applicants. The ability to be on the job, on time, ready to go. A willingness to bust ass without whining, to get dirty, and put the job first. Those alone can carry you far.

I suppose someone who wants to write an article can find whatever they want among veterans. We are a diverse lot. For every guy who came out of infantry, with a drinking problem and can't get a job, there is a guy from artillery who got a bachelors in something marketable without accumulating any student loan debt. I can only guess at what the author of what you were reading wanted to say in his piece.

Yep, just a couple off the top of my head. My Uncle came back from Vietnam, turned his GI Bill into an Electrical Engineering degree. My sister-in-law's brother was in the marines, went into the reserves after his enlistment to attend college, was called up and served in Iraq. He is finishing up his degree on his GI Bill.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 5

RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 11:02:56 AM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

Sadly I will bet the vast majority of vets do not take advantage of the GI bill. But if you are setting on your ass or doing drills and playing in the mud you may want an alternative such as vocational skill training.

Once out of the service life often gets too complicated to use the GI bill... I know I immediately got a family and had no time to take advantage of the benefits.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/26/2009 11:50:15 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 6

RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 11:23:50 AM

Arpig

Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline

I am 100% in favour of free higher education for vetrans, seems to me the least we can do

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RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 11:26:28 AM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Sadly I will bet the vast majority of vets do not take advantage of the GI bill. But if you are setting on your ass or doing drills and playing in the mud you may want an alternative such as vocational skill training.

Once out of the service life often gets too complicated to us the GI bill... I know I immediately got a family and had no time to take advantage of the benefits.

Butch

So it's the military's responsibility to protect us from our own choices and karma when we leave active duty? You made your own decisions, just as I made mine, and others made theirs. You could have made different ones. I could have made a few better ones, myself. Hell, some dumbasses don't even sign up because they don't want to pay out the $100 a month (or whatever it is now) for a year.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 8

RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 11:28:10 AM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

Rich,

Certainly ensuring they are informed and provided reasonably easy access would not be bad.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 9

RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 11:35:22 AM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Rich,

Certainly ensuring they are informed and provided reasonably easy access would not be bad.

They are, Muse. Within the confines of a gov't bureaucracy, of course. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't always make him put down the bottle and/or the bong, or keep his dick wrapped.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 10

RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 11:56:39 AM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

What difference should it make to you if they are not going to return for more duty...not going to be redeployed except in an emergency… or had the option of learning a skill that will be needed when they discharge.

There would be little difference in cost… I would say less cost in vocational training then continued battle training they will not be using.

Yes Rich these are kids... they know hothing else and half at leaset are not as smart as you but would make good plumbers... and they do need a kick in the pants. This program could give them a good life at no added expense to the government…cheaper then the GI bill I would say…IF anyone used it.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/26/2009 11:58:41 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 11

RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 1:39:18 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

We already have something a hell of a lot better than that, KD. It's called the GI Bill. They'll send you a nice little check every month for years.

Besides, serving an enlistment and collecting an honorable discharge, already guarantees you have some serious job skills sadly lacking in so many applicants. The ability to be on the job, on time, ready to go. A willingness to bust ass without whining, to get dirty, and put the job first. Those alone can carry you far.

I suppose someone who wants to write an article can find whatever they want among veterans. We are a diverse lot. For every guy who came out of infantry, with a drinking problem and can't get a job, there is a guy from artillery who got a bachelors in something marketable without accumulating any student loan debt. I can only guess at what the author of what you were reading wanted to say in his piece.

I'm 100% with Rich here. The government gives vets the opportunity for free education... and then sits back. Nobody forces the vets to take it. If they're too stupid to take advantage of free college...

I worked once with a vet who was working two jobs and going to school fulltime as well. He had a wife and family - if you want to use free education, you'll find a way.

I have seen some people who entered the military at 18, retired with a full pension at 38, got a civil service job that they got vet preference for, and retired from THAT job at 58 with two pensions and loads of government experience, and then got a job as a contractor.

The military is not for everyone, but if you have half a brain, you can make out well using that career path.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 12

RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 1:57:18 PM

WinsomeDefiance

Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline

I typically stay away from topics like this. Too volatile! My son just graduated High School and enlisted with the Marines. I like to think he knows what he's doing, in as much as any young adult can truly "know" what they are doing before being thrown into circumstances that can so drastically change their lives.

I dont' know about his being a plumber or construction worker. If he follows his plan to invest his bonus and takes advantage of the college funding he's been offered, I think he will do just fine. I hope so. However, as much as I love my son, and as worried as I am for him, and as much as I want the entire world for him - I believe he is a better man for making the most of his own opportunities.

I hope he doesn't fulfill his obligations as a soldier, and walk away believing he is 'owed' anything. At least, not owed anything other than what was consensually agreed upon when he originally signed up. I hope he makes the best of the opportunities he chose for himself, and stands on his own merit, hard work and good choices.

WinD

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 13

RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 2:33:47 PM

lazarus1983

Posts: 828
Joined: 2/25/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Rich,

Certainly ensuring they are informed and provided reasonably easy access would not be bad.

It can't possibly get any more informed or easily accessed than it is now. When I was using mine during school, I had to go online once a month and four clicks later on the VA site I had confirmed my enrollment and was good to go.

It's so easy, even a marine can do it. Anyone that can't figure out how to use the GI Bill...well, it's better for the gene pool if they just go off and disappear.

_____________________________

The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.

- Ayn Rand

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 14

RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 2:39:50 PM

tsatske

Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983
It's so easy, even a marine can do it.

Marines - Officail dating service to the 72 dancing virgins

Marines - affording the enemies of peace and freedom the opportunity to die for their cause since 1775

~ Proud Marine Mom

(My Hero, My Son)

Edited cause the Marine is smarter than his mom, and I can't spell, LOL

< Message edited by tsatske -- 12/26/2009 2:42:00 PM >

_____________________________

“If you never did you should. These things are fun and fun is good”
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Post #: 15

RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 2:42:10 PM

lazarus1983

Posts: 828
Joined: 2/25/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983
It's so easy, even a marine can do it.

Marines - Officail dating service to the 72 dancing virgins

Marines - affording the enemies of peace and freedom the opportunity to die for their cause since 1775

~ Proud Marine Mom

Muscles
Are
Required
Intelligence
Not
Expected

_____________________________

The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.

- Ayn Rand

(in reply to tsatske)

Post #: 16

RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 3:40:47 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

Careful, Laz. You might run into somebody eager to both defend the honor of the Corps, and prove how true that saying is.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to lazarus1983)

Post #: 17

RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 3:46:20 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

Yeah, that kind of our shit is better than their shit is cute in high school, but knocking an entire branch of the armed services is childish, not to mention out of line.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 18

RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 3:49:53 PM

lazarus1983

Posts: 828
Joined: 2/25/2006
Status: offline

Oh come now, Heretic, anybody who served or at least has an inkling of understanding of the military knows that it's just the usual competitive banter between the Marines and the Army.

If there were a Marine here, I'd expect them to fire back with Ain't Ready to be Marines Yet.

And anyone that gets offended by any of this does not understand the military, and should therefore not open their mouths and confess their ignorance.

_____________________________

The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.

- Ayn Rand

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 19

RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 3:52:24 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

And were you and some Marines chatting, that'd be one thing.

(in reply to lazarus1983)

Post #: 20

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