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RE: Obamacare sparking 10th Amendment rebellion, action... - 12/27/2009 9:10:30 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		FR

Horatio Bunce for President. I don't care if he's dead, he's way better than any possible choice offered today.

T

(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: Obamacare sparking 10th Amendment rebellion, action... - 12/27/2009 9:39:15 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Well, dead people do get elected.

It's worth a try.

Seems the VP pic will be important. Whom will he choose? When will he announce his choice?



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 12/27/2009 9:40:47 AM >

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: Obamacare sparking 10th Amendment rebellion, action... - 12/27/2009 9:55:48 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Well, dead people do get elected.





It'll be a lot tougher with Acorn disabled.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: Obamacare sparking 10th Amendment rebellion, action... - 12/27/2009 10:00:50 AM   
gift4mistress


Posts: 165
Joined: 6/30/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mefisto69

the republicants will shoot themselves in the arse if they pursue this


Your right. They should be doing this after Obama signs this bill. All the poles show that the majority of people are against it. If Obama signs the bill; it will hurt his chances of getting elected again in the future.

(in reply to mefisto69)
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RE: Obamacare sparking 10th Amendment rebellion, action... - 12/27/2009 10:01:51 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline 		What was the name of the dead man who defeated John Ashcroft in the Senate race? I can't recall. Maybe we could run him - he's got a proven track record.

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RE: Obamacare sparking 10th Amendment rebellion, action... - 12/27/2009 10:03:00 AM   
gift4mistress


Posts: 165
Joined: 6/30/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

OK, look, guys..........

Barack Obama is a Constitutional Law scholar.

Whatever this thing is, isn't, should be, shouldn't be, tries to do, fails to do...I'm certain it will pass constitutional scrutiny.

I'm also certain Republicans will throw everything they can think of at it, true or false. It's what they've always done, it's what they're doing now, and it's what they'll do through November.




You seem to think that Obama wrote this bill. He didn't!

< Message edited by gift4mistress -- 12/27/2009 10:05:19 AM >

(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: Obamacare sparking 10th Amendment rebellion, action... - 12/27/2009 5:47:32 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		the insurance companies wrote it

(in reply to gift4mistress)
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RE: Obamacare sparking 10th Amendment rebellion, action... - 12/27/2009 9:01:19 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
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Status: offline 		and thats why the insurance companies have spent over a million dollars .... your dollars... a day to fight this... all because they wrote it.

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RE: Obamacare sparking 10th Amendment rebellion, action... - 12/27/2009 10:32:13 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		each revision give the ins companies MORE.

If this were so good- they would simply expand medicare.   There is a reason why they dont.

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RE: Obamacare sparking 10th Amendment rebellion, action... - 12/27/2009 10:34:48 PM   
gift4mistress


Posts: 165
Joined: 6/30/2009
Status: offline 		The insurance companies didn't write the bill. Senators and their staff being paid by pharmaceuticals and left interests wrote the bill. 

< Message edited by gift4mistress -- 12/27/2009 10:38:23 PM >

(in reply to pahunkboy)
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RE: Obamacare sparking 10th Amendment rebellion, action... - 12/28/2009 7:50:20 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

You seem to think that Obama wrote this bill.


Where did you get that idea?

He's rather publicly left it in the hands of Congress right from the start.

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RE: Obamacare sparking 10th Amendment rebellion, action... - 12/28/2009 8:29:54 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

You seem to think that Obama wrote this bill.


Where did you get that idea?

He's rather publicly left it in the hands of Congress right from the start.

Which might have a lot to do with the fact that it seems to be a mish mash of compromises and half measures which won't achieve enough, and certainly won't stop insurers from hiking their prices and offering less medical care for the preniums.

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RE: Obamacare sparking 10th Amendment rebellion, action... - 12/28/2009 8:40:47 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5Y9X5ggxzA  Senator Baucus drunk on c-span

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RE: Obamacare sparking 10th Amendment rebellion, action... - 12/28/2009 11:23:35 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

The states do have to make a statement.   Washington has run amuck.

Leaving tho is not so cut and dry.   Likely the fed will say- you are free to go- just pay your tab on the way out.  Of course no state can actually pay its debt.

On many levels- the govt is shackled by debt.

A number of issues could tip the scale.  Gun control comes to mind.

Alaska and Texas might be able to survive with out the other states.

When you send money to any govt - there is an overhead that can never be regained.

States leaving is not a bad thing.  It is more that the sum of the parts will be greater then the whole.
All the world treaties could also be a impetus for some to leave.

..such as NAFTA, CAFTA, GATT, WTO and the like.



PaHunk, agreed there, Nafta-Cafta has to go!
The best thing to do about the healthcare plan is to let people "try it on" for a year or two and if it doesn't work, "The People" will be screaming about it.

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RE: Obamacare sparking 10th Amendment rebellion, action... - 12/28/2009 11:35:28 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

You seem to think that Obama wrote this bill.


Where did you get that idea?

He's rather publicly left it in the hands of Congress right from the start.

Which might have a lot to do with the fact that it seems to be a mish mash of compromises and half measures which won't achieve enough, and certainly won't stop insurers from hiking their prices and offering less medical care for the preniums.


Yes, I'd have liked to see him take a leadership role.

On the other hand, I think he's learned from the Clinton debacle.

We'll see. I'm glad to see any progress at this point, but it's far, far less than I would like. The main problem, of course, is that the right way to do this, a single-payer approach, just isn't going to happen, and everyone knows that. So we're constructing a band-aid from the start.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 12/28/2009 11:44:33 AM >

(in reply to Moonhead)
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RE: Obamacare sparking 10th Amendment rebellion, action... - 12/28/2009 11:53:19 AM   
luckydawg


Posts: 2448
Joined: 9/2/2009
Status: offline 		If Obama didn't write the bill or have much if anything to do with crafting it, why would his expertise in constituional law have any relevance as to whether or not the bill is constituional?

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RE: Obamacare sparking 10th Amendment rebellion, action... - 12/28/2009 11:56:30 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		I'm going on the presumption that these guys talk to each other.


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RE: Obamacare sparking 10th Amendment rebellion, action... - 12/28/2009 1:40:04 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I'm going on the presumption that these guys talk to each other.



Which seems a fair assumption: as evil liberals they're going to be all talk, aren't they?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Obamacare sparking 10th Amendment rebellion, action... - 12/28/2009 1:46:18 PM   
Fellow


Posts: 1486
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		I think there is a conflict of interest here: the bodies of citizens are not the government property to care for. 
Research has  found conventional medicine  to be responsible for an estimated 783,936 deaths annually, including 106,000 deaths from adverse drug reactions, 98,000 from medical errors, and 88,000 from infection.

The economist point of view ( http://neweconomicperspectives.blogspot.com/2009/10/healthcare-diversions-part-3.html ):

"Here’s the opportunity, Wall Street’s newest and bestest gamble: there is a huge untapped market of some 50 million people who are not paying insurance premiums—and the number grows every year because employers drop coverage and people can’t afford premiums. Solution? Health insurance “reform” that requires everyone to turn over their pay to Wall Street. Can’t afford the premiums? That is OK—Uncle Sam will kick in a few hundred billion to help out the insurers. Of course, do not expect more health care or better health outcomes because that has nothing to do with “reform”. “Heckuvajob” Baucus is more concerned about Wall Street’s insurers, who see a missed opportunity."

(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: Obamacare sparking 10th Amendment rebellion, action... - 12/28/2009 2:08:00 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		I'd feel more sympathetic is so many Americans hadn't been coming out with this shit about socialised medicine being evil, frankly.
You have a stupid system, and vested interests who are opposed to any changes being made to it. At least the trivial changes that are being proposed at the moment will set a precedent for the government intervening in the free enterprise system the insurers have set up, so if it achieves nothing else it's at least got that in it's favour. Of course, that's the main reason that the neocons are so opposed to it. It's bizarre that in a country that started with a rebellion against an oligarch there's so many people who think that feudalism would be a good idea. Still, I suppose it's natural given that they're the people with most of the money.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Fellow)
Profile   Post #: 40
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