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RE: The Terrible Teens? Unemployment to remain high for... - 12/28/2009 4:07:31 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Instead of choking off the energy America needs to grow the economy we need to look at ways to open up more of our resources. We need to go in the opposite direction that we're headed! Cap and trade and all these other methods of slow national suicide such as high corporate taxes need to be scrapped. Anthropogenic global warming is based on fraud, and high taxes keep businesses overseas.

All this "climate change" hysteria isn't scientific, its political, and all the Democratic scaremongering is effectively driving industry offshore.

The polar bears are doing great, its our economy thats endangered.



growth is about a 95% Illusion.

The economy "grows" very little, never more than population increase.

The only thing that grows is monetary inflation.


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RE: The Terrible Teens? Unemployment to remain high for... - 12/28/2009 4:10:21 AM   
Sanity


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What growth occurs takes energy though, and that growth is hindered by an unfriendly business environment.

And we've never had an administration or a congress that was as unfriendly towards business than what we have currently.


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RE: The Terrible Teens? Unemployment to remain high for... - 12/28/2009 4:22:17 AM   
SilverMark


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Although your premise is correct Sanity as far as growth and energy, as a person who runs a rather substantial business the ones holding back growth are less likey in Congress or the White house but hold seats in those tall buildings in major cities called BANKS!.....
Credit makes the business world turn and until they loosen up the strings a bit, there will very little growth in what is considered small business, if you would care for some first hand knowledge I would gladly share a few stories I have personally been involved with. None of the issues I have experienced lately have anything to do with regulation or laws but, BANKS and their unwillingness to allow for credit line increases, lines based on property values and their lack of willingness to loan even to businesses with a strong record of achievement.

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RE: The Terrible Teens? Unemployment to remain high for... - 12/28/2009 4:26:19 AM   
Sanity


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Obama's been giving what he terms "fat cat bankers" reason to be worried, not reason to relax. He's coming at them with a huge strap on dildo, a huge sadstic grin, and not a drop of lube. How do you expect them to react?


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RE: The Terrible Teens? Unemployment to remain high for... - 12/28/2009 4:31:03 AM   
SilverMark


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I expect them to earn those dollars WE(you and I) gave them to keep them afloat!....To be responsible and responsive to the needs of those who keep them in business....to not take MASSIVE bonuses when they need the money we gave them to survive.....not to make a profit on the backs of the public!....
I understand why Obama refers to them as FATCATS.....I begrudge no man success, but for business to function they must LEND money!....if they were to free up the supply they would not incure the wrath of the President nor would they be looked upon as piriah in the eyes of the public.....

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RE: The Terrible Teens? Unemployment to remain high for... - 12/28/2009 4:39:07 AM   
Sanity


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With the anti growth, anti business, and anti economy climate in Washington today bankers are smart to worry about lending money out right now. What are the massive new deficits going to mean tomorrow, for example?

This socialist revolution is cause for concern, Mark. They can cut the "fat cats" down to size, sure - but they can't milk them at the same time.


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RE: The Terrible Teens? Unemployment to remain high for... - 12/28/2009 4:44:16 AM   
SilverMark


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Sanity they have the RESERVES.....they are public corporations....look at their quarterlies....this one in on THEM!....the new regulations have to do with the problems they created not Washington. It is easy to blame Washington for all the ills of the world but, the personal abuses,the corporate abuses they have continued are on those running the institutions....the environment you refer to was not created in Washington but by their own actions......

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If you have sex with a siamese twin, is it considered a threesome?

The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
- Arnold H. Glasow

It may be your sole purpose in life to simply serve as a warning to others!

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RE: The Terrible Teens? Unemployment to remain high for... - 12/28/2009 5:28:49 AM   
eyesopened


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


What growth occurs takes energy though, and that growth is hindered by an unfriendly business environment.

And we've never had an administration or a congress that was as unfriendly towards business than what we have currently.



Really?

Under Regan, in an effort to take Big Government out of Business, the Investment Tax Credit was eliminated.  I was an industrial equipment salesperson back then and watched my company nearly fold as small business started purchasing used and reburbished equipment because they could no longer afford new.  My husband and I moved to Wyoming where he was employed by a company providing oil-field support services.  After Regan deregulated oil... he lost his job and his company folded as oil exporation was stopped and wells shut in.  It took an extra 3 weeks for us to move out of Wyoming because all the U-Haul trucks within a 200 mile radius were all gone and no trucks returning.  The entire state became a ghost-town.

Not sure how that was so damn friendly to business.  Sure as hell wasn't friendly to workers.

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RE: The Terrible Teens? Unemployment to remain high for... - 12/28/2009 6:04:05 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


What growth occurs takes energy though, and that growth is hindered by an unfriendly business environment.

And we've never had an administration or a congress that was as unfriendly towards business than what we have currently.



Really?

Under Regan, in an effort to take Big Government out of Business, the Investment Tax Credit was eliminated.  I was an industrial equipment salesperson back then and watched my company nearly fold as small business started purchasing used and reburbished equipment because they could no longer afford new.  My husband and I moved to Wyoming where he was employed by a company providing oil-field support services.  After Regan deregulated oil... he lost his job and his company folded as oil exporation was stopped and wells shut in.  It took an extra 3 weeks for us to move out of Wyoming because all the U-Haul trucks within a 200 mile radius were all gone and no trucks returning.  The entire state became a ghost-town.

Not sure how that was so damn friendly to business.  Sure as hell wasn't friendly to workers.

Carter springs to mind as well.

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RE: The Terrible Teens? Unemployment to remain high for... - 12/28/2009 9:54:55 AM   
LadyEllen


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As a business, if no one (or not enough people) want or can afford your service or product, you are doomed to fail. There is so much that creative marketing can do, but ultimately it cannot make up for a service or product that is too expensive or not as good as another.

As a worker the same things apply. If your salary need is too expensive or your work not as good as that of another you are not going to get the job.

Where one competes for business or a job against roughly equal competitors on the cost/benefit analysis in a small pool of competitors, supply and demand means that even the poorest competitor will enjoy some success at gaining business or employment; the availability of resource in the market will oblige some to buy from the poorest competitor or employ him.

Where one competes in a world wide market of competitors however, who will take a smaller salary or charge a lower price and provide more work or a product or service of acceptable quality, the same supply and demand influences mean that the poorest competitors may not receive any business or gain any employment, since the availability of resource in the market is so large that all buyers can buy from the more competitive and need not pay more or accept less simply in order to meet their need.

In short, unless we are prepared to accept one bowl of rice for an 18 hour shift, 7 days a week, give up our central heating, cars and the remainder of our western lifestyle, we must accept high unemployment. Global trade is here to stay, unfortunately for most; our personal choices amount to the above dismal prospect, finding something that simply cannot be outsourced (difficult) or catch a ride on the race to the bottom, dismissing any concern or interest for the plight of those whom you must thereby exploit.

This is the fulfilment of the free market that was rolled back slightly over the 20th century by the march of socialist and liberal ideas that held that the riches ought to be shared more fairly and the law ought to act to improve the lives of the poor and exploited by limiting their exploitation. It is no good now to complain that the game is rigged, when it is a game which most of us were winning until quite recently and held up as the ideal framework for any economy, and which some to this day - though they too must ultimately fall victim, stubbornly protest to be such.

E

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RE: The Terrible Teens? Unemployment to remain high for... - 12/28/2009 10:15:44 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

the economy is no good because the dollar is worthless, same thing they did in 29


Interest rates were dropped 0.50% in 1927. The Market took off. Responding to the sudden rise in the Market, the Federal Reserve Banks raised rates from 3.00% to 5.00% roughly in 1928. All major currencies were pegged to gold and the US had most of the gold. The dollar was really far from worthless. The crash came because like all bubbles it was based upon "irrational exuberance." Housewives and shoeshine boys were giving tips on stocks.

In a letter to the New York Fed Board of which he was a member in 1927, Herbert Hoover bitched about the interest rate cut and predicted a Depression.

I know, I know, I sound looney But I read it here in a book published this year Lords of Finance: The Bankers Who Broke the World by Liaquat Ahamed A big fat great read.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 12/28/2009 10:35:23 AM >


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RE: The Terrible Teens? Unemployment to remain high for... - 12/28/2009 10:32:05 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

This is the fulfilment of the free market that was rolled back slightly over the 20th century by the march of socialist and liberal ideas that held that the riches ought to be shared more fairly and the law ought to act to improve the lives of the poor and exploited by limiting their exploitation. It is no good now to complain that the game is rigged, when it is a game which most of us were winning until quite recently and held up as the ideal framework for any economy, and which some to this day - though they too must ultimately fall victim, stubbornly protest to be such.

E


May I raise an objection to your conclusion LE? We have experienced a credit recession as a result of the well known machinations of the Finance Sector and the speculative booms in housing and commodities. Apparently, banks are still not willing to lend to businesses to a great extent. When businesses go bust as many small enterprises have, people are thrown out of work. The unemployed can no longer afford to buy goods and services as before. Consequently, prices are reduced. This may lead to more business and job losses and could possibly still lead to a deflationary spiral, i.e. a Depression.

The Free Market was cut lose with Legislative changes at the end of the 1990s and persistent low interest rates after the dotcom crash. They continue low to encourage banks to borrow from the Fed and roll the money over into loans for business, but many banks are saying there are not many credit worthy businesses with whom they wish to risk their money. Meanwhile both residential and commercial mortgages continue to default. There is only one word for all this - HELP!

< Message edited by vincentML -- 12/28/2009 10:37:20 AM >


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vML

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RE: The Terrible Teens? Unemployment to remain high for... - 12/28/2009 10:35:27 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


What growth occurs takes energy though, and that growth is hindered by an unfriendly business environment.

And we've never had an administration or a congress that was as unfriendly towards business than what we have currently.



energy is created with your pen and faith.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: The Terrible Teens? Unemployment to remain high for... - 12/28/2009 10:37:46 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

the economy is no good because the dollar is worthless, same thing they did in 29


Interest rates were dropped 0.50% in 1927. The Market took off. Responding to the sudden rise in the Market, the Federal Reserve Banks raised rates from 3.00% to 5.00% roughly in 1928. All major currencies were pegged to gold and the US had most of the gold. The dollar was really far from worthless. The crash came because like all bubbles it was based upon "irrational exuberance." Housewives and shoeshine boys were giving tips on stocks.

In a letter to the New York Fed Board of which he was a member in 1927, Herbert Hoover bitched about the interest rate cut and predicted a Depression.

I know, I know, I sound looney But I read it here in a book published this year Lords of Finance: The Bankers Who Broke the World by Liaquat Ahamed A big fat great read.


when people understand the banking industry they will understand that the rev war, civil wa, ww2, and 911 were all very predictable decades in advance.

The next 911 will be in or about 2065-2075 and you can go to the bank on that.  No pun intended

Interest rates drop with increased liquidity and inflation goes up.

I read money mechanics from the federal reserve.



Oh I didnt read your post close enough...

Yeh the european bankers foreclosed. 

Thats how money is extracted from a nation. 

First they easy credit so people mortgage themselves to the maximum they can AFFORD. 

Now they have their mortgage knowing they will have 1500 bucks a month for your housepayment coming in based on their job.

Then you increase liquidity and it costs twice as many dollar bills for everything else you need to survive.

You no longer have 1500 bucks per month to spen on your mortgage because gas went from 1.80 to 4.50, milk from buck 50 to 3+ and so forth and so on.  

Then we the stoopid people think voting in the other guy is going to fix what has been going on since the beginning of time when anyone who has tried is now a martyr.

the desert of the real ~morpheus






< Message edited by Real0ne -- 12/28/2009 10:59:38 AM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: The Terrible Teens? Unemployment to remain high for... - 12/28/2009 10:38:46 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


What growth occurs takes energy though, and that growth is hindered by an unfriendly business environment.

And we've never had an administration or a congress that was as unfriendly towards business than what we have currently.



energy is created with your pen and faith.


There you go bringing Religion into the discussion!

< Message edited by vincentML -- 12/28/2009 10:39:06 AM >


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RE: The Terrible Teens? Unemployment to remain high for... - 12/28/2009 10:39:23 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
energy is created with your pen and faith.


You've just changed one of the laws of thermodynamics: Energy can't be created or destroyed it just changes form.

< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 12/28/2009 10:40:16 AM >


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RE: The Terrible Teens? Unemployment to remain high for... - 12/28/2009 10:41:59 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
energy is created with your pen and faith.


You've just changed one of the laws of thermodynamics: Energy can't be created or destroyed it just changes form.


sorry but we are talking about banking man...not physics

It can in banking however.



quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


What growth occurs takes energy though, and that growth is hindered by an unfriendly business environment.

And we've never had an administration or a congress that was as unfriendly towards business than what we have currently.



energy is created with your pen and faith.


There you go bringing Religion into the discussion!


its not my words, read the UCC banking law etc


< Message edited by Real0ne -- 12/28/2009 10:43:48 AM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to SL4V3M4YB3)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: The Terrible Teens? Unemployment to remain high for... - 12/28/2009 10:44:43 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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Oh banking I know nothing about that.

In banking you can create your own laws, this is true

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RE: The Terrible Teens? Unemployment to remain high for... - 12/28/2009 11:29:03 AM   
LadyEllen


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Indeed Vincent - but  I ask myself, why did we have the boom in credit, the bubbles in housing and commodities?

Namely, I conclude, because we had nothing else with which to conjure the illusion of wealth having stripped our nations bare through supporting a mindless "market knows best" economic ideology by agreeing global trade deals and removing regulation. 

What happened was the fulfilment of the free market ideology so often found being pushed vigorously here. Its really quite ironic to hear some protesting the inevitable effects realised.

E



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RE: The Terrible Teens? Unemployment to remain high for... - 12/28/2009 11:57:04 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Indeed Vincent - but  I ask myself, why did we have the boom in credit, the bubbles in housing and commodities?

Namely, I conclude, because we had nothing else with which to conjure the illusion of wealth having stripped our nations bare through supporting a mindless "market knows best" economic ideology by agreeing global trade deals and removing regulation. 

What happened was the fulfilment of the free market ideology so often found being pushed vigorously here. Its really quite ironic to hear some protesting the inevitable effects realised.

E





L.E. you are correct, it's called "wealth for the few."

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