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RE: The Existentialist Cowboy: Who Owns America and Why! - 12/30/2009 4:50:55 PM   
Brain


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Joined: 2/14/2007
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No wonder Alan Greenspan said Bill Clinton was the best Republican president. I'm not happy with either party but I think Democrats are a little better than Republicans.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

quote:

ONE PERCENT of the U.S. population owns more than 95 percent of everyone else combined.


The link clearly shows 1% owns 37% of the wealth, top 10% owns 72%.
Interesting is the first graph showing that the median wage last 10 years has been steady or declined.
We could extend it 30 years back and the result would be the same. We can not blame GOP alone; neither Democrat president (W. Clinton) nor Democrat led Congresses have done nothing to give some boost to lower classes. Corporate executive compensation increased 4 times during Clinton years (there is some decline after that).



(in reply to Fellow)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: The Existentialist Cowboy: Who Owns America and Why! - 12/30/2009 5:32:58 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline
I look to other countries and see how they do it. I might start with the Dutch and the French and the British and the Canadians. Usually, I think they do it through the tax system. I think if it were up to to me the first thing I would do is reverse the Bush tax cuts and then I would listen to well established economists like Paul Krugman or others who have won a Nobel Prize.

Paul Krugman has written some excellent articles in the New York Times. I know Canada taxes based on a persons world income so even if you live in another country like the Cayman Islands if you are a member of the Law Society in Canada you are still a Canadian resident and you still pay taxes to Canada based on your world income.

Here's an article I read a few weeks ago,

Op-Ed: Too Little of a Good Thing - Paul Krugman

The good news is that the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, a k a the Obama stimulus plan, is working just about the way textbook macroeconomics said it would. But that’ s also the bad news — because the same textbook analysis says that the stimulus was far too small given the scale of our economic problems. Unless something changes drastically, we’ re looking at many years of high unemployment.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/02/opinion/02krugman.html?_r=6


Here is another story,

David Obey Calls for War Tax on Wealthy


Rep. David Obey, a Wisconsin Democrat and the chairman of the House Appropriations Committee, is the latest lawmaker to call for a new tax aimed at the rich to pay for a troop increase in Afghanistan.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/latest-news/david-obey-calls-war-tax-wealthy

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I would love to here how you would redistribute the wealth and still be a democracy...Not being a smart ass I'm serious.

I have some ideas I've mentioned in past posts...love to hear your ideas instead of complaints.

Butch



(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: The Existentialist Cowboy: Who Owns America and Why! - 12/30/2009 7:09:45 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jackod

Who run the show??? Well Rotchilds own half of the world,with the help of hungarian Jew  Soros,then you have the Rockeffelers,,J., Morgans, Bushes Henry Kissinger,Zbignev Brezinski,etc.the "Federal reserve",with its criminal mob,called the irs  in puerto rico(all money collected go directly to the bankers to pay the "debt',nothing back to benefits the people,so you "should" be realy proud to pay the illegal taxes and called people who fight for freedom  "tax cheats") You have also several noble organization-the Bohemian Grove,Bilderbergers,council on foreing relantionship,the triangular comision,etc.Those are very concern about population grove,so system of population controll is in place,with the new world administrator,husein obama ,they have greatest chance to establish  new world order and is advancing dramaticaly,just to give the diplomatic immunity to shady criminal european interpol,should be great alarm to the SHEEPLE. The way it works:THEY create problem,then is reaction,the way THEY expect,like yes to patriots act,yes to war,etc and then is the mentioned solution  PROBLEM,REACTION SOLUTION,less,less freedom,total slavery,cashless society,the monarchy and the slaves,maxsist utopia. Im fighting it 55 years

You're a real winner there.  Hard to fit so many conspiracy theories in one paragraph - and nice touch with the "old school" Jewish banker one.

(in reply to jackod)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: The Existentialist Cowboy: Who Owns America and Why! - 12/30/2009 7:28:02 PM   
Fellow


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Joined: 9/21/2009
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My verdict: Too much Krugman, too little common sense and true leadership equals a very long recession or the Great Depression 2.

(in reply to thornhappy)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: The Existentialist Cowboy: Who Owns America and Why! - 12/30/2009 7:58:11 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

I look to other countries and see how they do it. I might start with the Dutch and the French and the British and the Canadians. Usually, I think they do it through the tax system. I think if it were up to to me the first thing I would do is reverse the Bush tax cuts and then I would listen to well established economists like Paul Krugman or others who have won a Nobel Prize.

Paul Krugman has written some excellent articles in the New York Times. I know Canada taxes based on a persons world income so even if you live in another country like the Cayman Islands if you are a member of the Law Society in Canada you are still a Canadian resident and you still pay taxes to Canada based on your world income.




Those systems and countries are having there own problems remember...I think we need to completely scrap the tax system and go to a Huckabee consumer tax...No deductions...every one pays tax on what they consume. That means drug pushers will pay tax...waiters will pay true tax...a return deduction for the poor would be easy to compute and regulate...No more need for the huge IRS...No corporate deductions… hidden tax shelters…no loop holes. You live in the US you buy goods overseas you will still pay a US consumer tax. Illegal aliens will pay tax.

I do believe it will raise more money with less stress on our personal budgets than the system we have today or the systems of other countries that are having the same problems as us to one degree or another.

OK I am not a fanatic I know such a huge change will not take place all at once…But I’ll bet you could get a few representative states for trials under the new system to see if it works and how it spreads the wealth. Then go from there.

Try other systems too in test states over say a 3 year period then completely scrap our system and have a totally new system to the world...that will be fair and raise the needed revenue.

Now my idea is a dream…just like yours…neither will happen sad but so unless we change lobby laws.

Butch


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Brain)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: The Existentialist Cowboy: Who Owns America and Why! - 12/30/2009 9:04:15 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
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Government by Goldman Sachs

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/674.html


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

this is old news.

so dude- who do you think runs the show?

/one does have to be careful about "soak the rich" modes.  because less then 250k 1/2 per Obama IS rich.  glunk.   and then what the meaning of is IS.

But really man- WHO do you think runs the show?



(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: The Existentialist Cowboy: Who Owns America and Why! - 12/30/2009 9:49:04 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
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It's not that, I think a lot about poor people who can't afford go to a doctor or dentist. And I think about people who go to bed hungry, which is something thankfully I've never experienced. The other day on the news I saw this young lady who owes $40,000 to nine different banks to pay back her college education and she lost her job and is behind in her rent of $900 a month. Everybody has problems, even Tiger Woods, I think he screwed up because his wife is the sexiest.

Tiger Woods' Birthday! Which Woman Does He Want To See? (PHOTOS)

Tiger Woods turns 34 today. It has been a tumultuous month for the golfer, as his previously untainted reputation has been sullied by an expansive array of alleged mistresses.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/30/tiger-woods-birthday-whic_n_406848.html



quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I think the OP should spend less time being jealous of those who have money and spend more time working to make his own life better. I see Brain as a very unhappy person, and having more money probably wouldn't make him happier.


(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: The Existentialist Cowboy: Who Owns America and Why! - 12/30/2009 10:46:59 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline
Are You Ready for the Next Crisis?
Greenspan may have bet our country on his free market ideology, but does anyone believe that Rubin and Summers were doing anything other than protecting the enormous fraud-based profits that derivatives were bringing Wall Street?

Income inequality in the US is now the most extreme of all countries. The 2008 OECD report, “Income Distribution and Poverty in OECD Countries,” concludes that the US is the country with the highest inequality and poverty rate across the OECD and that since 2000 nowhere has there been such a stark rise in income inequality as in the US.

The financial insiders running the Treasury, White House, and Federal Reserve shifted to taxpayers the cost of the catastrophe that they had created. When the crisis hit, Henry Paulson, appointed by President Bush as Rubin’s replacement as the Goldman Sachs representative running the US Treasury, hyped fear to obtain from “our” representatives in Congress with no questions asked hundreds of billions of taxpayers’ dollars (TARP money) to bail out Goldman Sachs and the other malefactors of unregulated derivatives.

Even after Long Term Capital Management blew up in 1998 and had to be bailed out, Greenspan, Rubin, and Summers stuck to their guns. Greenspan, Rubin and Summers, and a roped-in gullible Arthur Levitt who now regrets that he was the banksters’ dupe, succeeded in manipulating a totally ignorant Congress into blocking the CFTC from doing its mandated job.

Brooksley Born, prevented by the public’s elected representatives from protecting the public, resigned. Wall Street money simply shoved facts and honest regulators aside, guaranteeing government inaction and the financial crisis that hit in 2008 and continues to plague our economy today.



As Brooksley Born says, if nothing is done “it’ll happen again.”

But nothing can be done. The crooks have the government.


http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article23810.htm


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

My verdict: Too much Krugman, too little common sense and true leadership equals a very long recession or the Great Depression 2.


(in reply to Fellow)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: The Existentialist Cowboy: Who Owns America and Why! - 12/30/2009 11:14:03 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: jackod

Who run the show??? Well Rotchilds own half of the world,with the help of hungarian Jew  Soros,then you have the Rockeffelers,,J., Morgans, Bushes Henry Kissinger,Zbignev Brezinski,etc.the "Federal reserve",with its criminal mob,called the irs  in puerto rico(all money collected go directly to the bankers to pay the "debt',nothing back to benefits the people,so you "should" be realy proud to pay the illegal taxes and called people who fight for freedom  "tax cheats") You have also several noble organization-the Bohemian Grove,Bilderbergers,council on foreing relantionship,the triangular comision,etc.Those are very concern about population grove,so system of population controll is in place,with the new world administrator,husein obama ,they have greatest chance to establish  new world order and is advancing dramaticaly,just to give the diplomatic immunity to shady criminal european interpol,should be great alarm to the SHEEPLE. The way it works:THEY create problem,then is reaction,the way THEY expect,like yes to patriots act,yes to war,etc and then is the mentioned solution  PROBLEM,REACTION SOLUTION,less,less freedom,total slavery,cashless society,the monarchy and the slaves,maxsist utopia. Im fighting it 55 years

You're a real winner there.  Hard to fit so many conspiracy theories in one paragraph - and nice touch with the "old school" Jewish banker one.



So tell me.  How are things at the office?   Goldman Saches loves your refuting this spectacular and cogent post.

(in reply to thornhappy)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: The Existentialist Cowboy: Who Owns America and Why! - 12/31/2009 12:11:17 AM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline

Ralph Nader: Bohemian Grove
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZMlIo0rQK0&feature=related


Ralph Nader: Bohemian Grove Pt2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCAiokLusI8


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

this is old news.

so dude- who do you think runs the show?

/one does have to be careful about "soak the rich" modes.  because less then 250k 1/2 per Obama IS rich.  glunk.   and then what the meaning of is IS.

But really man- WHO do you think runs the show?



(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: The Existentialist Cowboy: Who Owns America and Why! - 12/31/2009 1:34:00 AM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline
This idea might work:

Robert Reich and the Elimination of Corporate Criminal Liability

Corporate income tax? Out.

Corporate social responsibility? Out.

Corporate criminal liability? Out.

Milton Friedman? No.

Try Robert Reich.

Yes, the liberal, Robert Reich - Bill Clinton's Secretary of Labor.

In his new book, Supercapitalism: The Transformation of Business, Democracy and Everyday Life (Knopf, 2007), Reich says corporate social responsibility is a diversion and an illusion, the corporate income tax is inefficient and inequitable, and corporate criminal liability is based on an anthropomorphic fallacy that hurts a lot of innocent people.

But with Reich, it's a package deal.

Yes, he would eliminate corporate criminal liability. Yes he would get rid of the corporate income tax.

But he would also strip corporations of their constitutional rights.

"Corporations should have no more legal right to free speech, due process, or political representation in a democracy than do any other pieces of paper on which contracts are written," he writes.

"Legislators or judges who grant corporations such rights are not being intellectually honest, or they are unaware of the effects of supercapitalsim. Only people should possess such rights."

Reich says that while supercapitalism delivers products galore at low, low prices to the American consumer - at the same time it undermines democracy by flooding the public arena with private lobbyists, cash, and corporate influence.

The cure?

Reich wants a bright line separation between the corporate and the public arenas.

In return, he'd zero out corporate criminal liability and the corporate income tax.

"Companies cannot act with criminal intent because they have no human capacity for intent," Reich says. "Arthur Andersen may have sounded like a person but the accounting firm was a legal fiction. . . how can any jury, under any circumstances, find that a company 'knew' that 'its' actions were wrong? A company cannot know right from wrong. A company is incapable of knowing anything. Nor does a company itself take action. Only people know right from wrong, and only people act. That is a basic tenet of democracy."


Reich also says it makes no sense to treat companies as persons with legal rights to challenge in court democratically enacted laws and regulations.

"That should be left to real citizens," he writes.

Noncitizens should have no right to sue to overturn a law or regulation in American courts unless the law or regulation breaches some international treaty.

"Otherwise, decisions arrived at democratically can be overturned by people who are not even American citizens," he writes.

In January 2005, nine global automakers sued California to block a new clean car law which required cars sold in California to reduce greenhouse gas emissions 30 percent by model year 2016. A majority of the shareholders of at least seven of those car companies were not American citizens, "yet the court gave them standing to challenge, and to potentially overturn, a law enacted by the citizens of California," he writes.

"This is nonsensical," Reich says. "Real citizenship should be the criterion - and by allowing only people rather than companies to sue, it can be."

Finally, Reich says that since only people can be citizens, "only people should be allowed to participate in democratic decision making."

"Consumers, investors, executives, and other employees all have a right to advance their interests within a democracy," he writes.

"But as Yale political scientist Charles Lindblom concluded many years ago, neither ethically nor logically do corporations have a legitimate role in the democratic process."

Supercapitalism has led to the decline of democracy.

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/09/07/3686

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: The Existentialist Cowboy: Who Owns America and Why! - 12/31/2009 2:48:28 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain


It's not that, I think a lot about poor people who can't afford go to a doctor or dentist. And I think about people who go to bed hungry, which is something thankfully I've never experienced. The other day on the news I saw this young lady who owes $40,000 to nine different banks to pay back her college education and she lost her job and is behind in her rent of $900 a month. Everybody has problems, even Tiger Woods, I think he screwed up because his wife is the sexiest.

Tiger Woods' Birthday! Which Woman Does He Want To See? (PHOTOS)

Tiger Woods turns 34 today. It has been a tumultuous month for the golfer, as his previously untainted reputation has been sullied by an expansive array of alleged mistresses.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/30/tiger-woods-birthday-whic_n_406848.html



quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I think the OP should spend less time being jealous of those who have money and spend more time working to make his own life better. I see Brain as a very unhappy person, and having more money probably wouldn't make him happier.




It's one thing to think about the poor and then look to something like "government" to make people not poor.  The poor exist.  This is a fact.  We as individuals have the power, not some "government" or "god" it's up to each of us to do what we can.  If each and evry person helped just one other person, it's possible to eliminate most if not all human suffering.

I saw on my local news about a woman who makes sandwiches every morning to distribute to the tent cities of the homeless.  I am deeply ashamed at myself for not doing likewise.  It is my resolution for 2010 to find volunteer programs in my community.  I'm ashamed of myself for sitting on my ass complaining how "other people" should fix the problem when there is so much I could be doing for others. 

Anyone else willing to join me?

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to Brain)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: The Existentialist Cowboy: Who Owns America and Why! - 12/31/2009 7:59:32 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

I've learned that there are local groups which can provide meals to those in need for around 18 cents per meal, and I've decided to make more of an effort this year to donate what I can to such groups. I don't have too much extra, but I've got that much. I realize that donating time take so much more than donating money, and so I've got to commend you for what you're doing.


quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
It's one thing to think about the poor and then look to something like "government" to make people not poor.  The poor exist.  This is a fact.  We as individuals have the power, not some "government" or "god" it's up to each of us to do what we can.  If each and evry person helped just one other person, it's possible to eliminate most if not all human suffering.

I saw on my local news about a woman who makes sandwiches every morning to distribute to the tent cities of the homeless.  I am deeply ashamed at myself for not doing likewise.  It is my resolution for 2010 to find volunteer programs in my community.  I'm ashamed of myself for sitting on my ass complaining how "other people" should fix the problem when there is so much I could be doing for others. 

Anyone else willing to join me?


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: The Existentialist Cowboy: Who Owns America and Why! - 12/31/2009 7:17:01 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline
I agree there should be a consumption tax and it should be national or a national general sales tax or consumption tax. I don't think they have to test it in some states to see how it goes because many countries have it already and the results would be predictable.

Additionally, I'm sure you know these consumption taxes are regressive and not progressive. I don't know what kind of economic background you have but a progressive tax is: Progressive taxes attempt to reduce the tax incidence of people with a lower ability-to-pay, as they shift the incidence increasingly to those with a higher ability-to-pay.

People have a tendency to avoid paying taxes so I prefer not to put all my eggs in one basket with a singular method to collect taxes. I think it's more wise to go with a mix or blended system because no matter how people try to shift their behavior to avoid taxes they would get caught using another tool in the tax code. So to summarize I like using various tools to get my tax revenue to run the government.

I think Obama should focus on tax reform during his second term in office when he would be most likely reelected for a second term and will not have to be concerned with running for the presidency again. Something needs to be done because it's important not to allow the Chinese to blackmail the United States since they finance the United States deficit. Republicans and their tax cuts and more tax cuts and more tax cuts as a solution to every problem!

Sen. Hatch admits GOP standard practice was to run up deficit

MSNBC's Rachel Maddow believes she has found the smoking gun proving Republicans' hypocrisy on health care and the budget deficit: an admission by Utah Republican Sen. Orrin Hatch that, during the Bush administration, "it was standard practice not to pay for things."

http://rawstory.com/2009/12/hatch-admits-gop-standard-practice/

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 34
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