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RE: The GOP's Ugly 2010 Campaign: Pushing the Obacalypse - 12/30/2009 1:02:00 PM

Hillwilliam

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Joined: 8/27/2008
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Just My 1 cent worth here. (not even 2 cents worth) If you will look at the last 40 to 50 years, this country has been the best run when the Pres and Congress are of DIFFERENT parties. That way, noone can get a wild hair up their ass and just run with it.

Using that logic, maybe, we NEED the repubs to take control of congress in '10.

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 21

RE: The GOP's Ugly 2010 Campaign: Pushing the Obacalypse - 12/30/2009 1:04:31 PM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

A campaign that only needs to document the results and lack of improvement to succeed. But of course there are still some who think that a Democratic President, a filibuster proof Democratic majority in Congress can't accomplish anything is the GOP's fault. It's been a year. Considering how terrible and unprepared this Administration was for the disaster they found - you would think there would be at least one aspect improving. Can you point to one?

Yes.

Compare your link from January 20th, the day Obama took office to the market increases since.

In case you haven't been paying attention, the Dow that conservatives predicted would fall to between 4000 and 6000 by year's end has been trading over 10,000 for weeks now and steadily inching up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

The pragmatic response from an 'Obamarized' economy:

quote:

Jan. 20 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. stocks sank, sending the Dow Jones Industrial Average to its worst Inauguration Day decline, as speculation banks must raise more capital sent financial shares to an almost 14-year low.
The S&P 500 plunged 5.3 percent to 805.22. The S&P 500 Financials Index fell 17 percent to below its lowest closing level since March 1995 as concern European banks need more capital also weighed on the group. The Dow average slid 332.13 points to 7,949.09. Both the Dow and S&P 500 retreated to two- month lows.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aOYw.awwsNSg&refer=worldwide

Today's numbers:

Wed, Dec 30, 2009 03:53pm EST

Dow Jones 10, 548.51

Nasdaq 2291.28

S&P 1126.42

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 12/30/2009 1:12:01 PM >

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 22

RE: The GOP's Ugly 2010 Campaign: Pushing the Obacalypse - 12/30/2009 1:21:44 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
A campaign that only needs to document the results and lack of improvement to succeed. But of course there are still some who think that a Democratic President, a filibuster proof Democratic majority in Congress can't accomplish anything is the GOP's fault. It's been a year. Considering how terrible and unprepared this Administration was for the disaster they found - you would think there would be at least one aspect improving. Can you point to one?

Yes.

Compare your link from January 20th, the day Obama took office to the market increases since.

In case you haven't been paying attention, the Dow that conservatives predicted would fall to between 4000 and 6000 by year's end has been trading over 10,000 for weeks now and steadily inching up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

The pragmatic response from an 'Obamarized' economy:

quote:

Jan. 20 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. stocks sank, sending the Dow Jones Industrial Average to its worst Inauguration Day decline, as speculation banks must raise more capital sent financial shares to an almost 14-year low.
The S&P 500 plunged 5.3 percent to 805.22. The S&P 500 Financials Index fell 17 percent to below its lowest closing level since March 1995 as concern European banks need more capital also weighed on the group. The Dow average slid 332.13 points to 7,949.09. Both the Dow and S&P 500 retreated to two- month lows.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aOYw.awwsNSg&refer=worldwide

Today's numbers:
Wed, Dec 30, 2009 03:53pm EST
Dow Jones 10, 548.51
Nasdaq 2291.28
S&P 1126.42

Point taken RML - Shows what almost a Trillion dollars of payoff bailout money can do if spend on the right campaign contributers bonus plans! The following of Bush's economic failure bail-out program with the Bush II stimulus payout did a lot of good for the country! Just think how bad unemployment would be among the executives if that wasn't distributed to them. It's not easy replacing a $6 Million salary plus bonus - and you are correct to point out - we have the Obama Administration to thank for that.

As a beneficiary of this previously overlooked positive result - I hope to see more progress in that use of tax payer money.

Look at that! Just today another $3.5 Billion to GMAC! Put another yule log on the fire!

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 23

RE: The GOP's Ugly 2010 Campaign: Pushing the Obacalypse - 12/30/2009 1:40:26 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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Brain, I don't think Obama needs any "help" from the Republicans, he's doing a bang up job all by himself.
The Democrats got OWNED.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to Brain)

Post #: 24

RE: The GOP's Ugly 2010 Campaign: Pushing the Obacalypse - 12/30/2009 2:28:25 PM

rulemylife

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Joined: 8/23/2004
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So in other words, no matter what progress is made you will spin it into a statement of no progress to be able to criticize the Obama administration.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 12/30/2009 2:29:41 PM >

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 25

RE: The GOP's Ugly 2010 Campaign: Pushing the Obacalypse - 12/30/2009 3:04:48 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

So in other words, no matter what progress is made you will spin it into a statement of no progress to be able to criticize the Obama administration.

I criticized? Quite the contrary I said you were right. I actually said "point taken" but you are 100% correct! The stock market is up! Where is your disagreement, or the inaccuracy within my response?

I don't see how documenting the cause and effect of something can be taken as criticism. There was almost of Trillion dollars of tax money spent on a stimulus by the Obama administration that went primarily to the industries whose shares resulted in the positive result you pointed out. The individual companies avoided bankruptcy, except GM, as a result all the contractual obligations of those companies, including executive bonuses were fully funded.

Was the stimulus superfluous? Could the same results have been generated without it? I don't think so, and as you correctly pointed out - it was the Obama Administration that enabled it to happen.

Or was some other domestic economic policy implemented having that affect on the NYSE that I'm not considering? I missed this positive Obama result - I'm not confident I didn't miss more.

Meanwhile - Good, no GREAT JOB Obama keeping the NYSE over 10,000!!! What else, "in other words", do you want me to say? Maybe next spring he'll be up for a Nobel Prize in economics!

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 26

RE: The GOP's Ugly 2010 Campaign: Pushing the Obacalypse - 12/31/2009 8:08:29 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
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Now look what those damn Republicans did to President Obama's plans to release some more "isolated extremists" and close GITMO.

The 91 Yemenis at Guantanamo expecting a ticket home soon might as well unpack their bags - the Obama administration is taking another look at whether that's a good idea.

The Christmas Day underpants bomber has thrown their fate, and plans to close Gitmo, into limbo.

The Yemenis were among the 200 remaining prisoners at Gitmo being considered for a return to their home country.

But that was before Nigerian Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab boarded Northwest Flight 253 fitted with explosive briefs he said were provided by Al Qaeda militants in lawless Yemen.

But "the President will not release any detainee who would endanger the American people," the official added.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 27

RE: The GOP's Ugly 2010 Campaign: Pushing the Obacalypse - 12/31/2009 8:21:34 AM

mnottertail

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Joined: 11/3/2004
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well, I dont know that is a dem/rep thing (and I hope I got the scarcastic part right, Merc)

but for the rest, changing policy amidst changing conditions does not seem to me to be an inept move.

Ron

_____________________________

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(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 28

RE: The GOP's Ugly 2010 Campaign: Pushing the Obacalypse - 12/31/2009 8:50:17 AM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

have put our country on a dangerous path toward bankruptcy and strict government control.

America cannot survive on this new course.

We know. They spent the Bush years deregulating banks, starting expensive long term wars, cutting taxes to pretend they'd pay for themselves, used the Fed to bailout their asses so many times that interest rates now have nowhere left to cut, and took away several rights, from the Patriotic Act to Airline Security that actually accomplish nothing, created a huge new Homeland Security bureaucracy that costs a fortune and is only a smokescreen providing the illusion of doing something about security.

And now they believe Americans are dumb enough to believe this all happened afresh since Jan. 20. Fucking amazing.

(in reply to Brain)

Post #: 29

RE: The GOP's Ugly 2010 Campaign: Pushing the Obacalypse - 12/31/2009 8:57:15 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

True, Bush was no fiscal conservative, which Obama ran as a fiscal conservative... but still.

Bush did try to reign in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, but Senate Democrats Frank and Dodd ran interference against his efforts, claiming that the banking and the loan situation was just fine.

No problems at all, they said. Everything was just rosy and splendiforous.

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/barone/2008/10/06/democrats-were-wrong-on-fannie-mae-and-freddie-mac.html

Edited to add,

As far as the wars go, name one that the Democrats didn't vote in favor of. I can name you more quotes from Democrats who were in favor of taking out Saddam Hussein than I can Republicans, but I'm sure you've seen them yourself so I won't go there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

have put our country on a dangerous path toward bankruptcy and strict government control.

America cannot survive on this new course.

We know. They spent the Bush years deregulating banks, starting expensive long term wars, cutting taxes to pretend they'd pay for themselves, used the Fed to bailout their asses so many times that interest rates now have nowhere left to cut, and took away several rights, from the Patriotic Act to Airline Security that actually accomplish nothing, created a huge new Homeland Security bureaucracy that costs a fortune and is only a smokescreen providing the illusion of doing something about security.

And now they believe Americans are dumb enough to believe this all happened afresh since Jan. 20. Fucking amazing.

< Message edited by Sanity -- 12/31/2009 9:00:03 AM >

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 30

RE: The GOP's Ugly 2010 Campaign: Pushing the Obacalypse - 12/31/2009 8:57:20 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

well, I dont know that is a dem/rep thing (and I hope I got the sarcastic part right, Merc)
but for the rest, changing policy amidst changing conditions does not seem to me to be an inept move.
Ron

I'd agree Ron. The inept move was committing to the idea with the limited knowledge he had as 'candidate Obama'. President Obama can't live up to all those corners the candidate painted for himself. Gitmo is not the only one.

Obama's lack of political, as well as administration experience is proving to be a very difficult hurdle for him to overcome. There have been too many 'clarifying' speeches necessary; the Detroit attack only the latest example of him having to come back one day after the first speech to tell us what he really meant to say.

His delegation skills, his choices for people in his Administration. It's difficult to hear a President having to rationalize statements like Nepolitano's "the system worked!" when the factual evidence, or the situation alone, made it so obvious that it didn't. The man is intelligent. It must really frustrate him having to deal with these things but the bottom line is these are his choices, his results, and his problems.

He has set himself and his Administration up for failure, the GOP isn't. He's just made their task easier.

As far as the 'sarcasm' goes; I don't know. Was the OP being sarcastic with the thread title?

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 31

RE: The GOP's Ugly 2010 Campaign: Pushing the Obacalypse - 12/31/2009 9:27:13 AM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

In case you haven't been paying attention, the Dow that conservatives predicted would fall to between 4000 and 6000 by year's end has been trading over 10,000 for weeks now and steadily inching up.

The DJIA is only half of the picture. It was at around 9000 at the beginning of 2009, and plunged to a low around 6500 in early March when the value of the US Dollar spiked on confidence in the new administration. But that confidence was gone by the end of March. Until early December, the value of the US Dollar dropped like a stone and stocks became more and more expensive to purchase with our eroded currency.

The dollar has rebounded a little now, and the rise in the Dow has stalled a bit. But there's nothing to cheer about when stock prices are going up because the value of your currency is going down the drain.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 12/31/2009 9:47:20 AM >

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 32

RE: The GOP's Ugly 2010 Campaign: Pushing the Obacalypse - 12/31/2009 10:41:40 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

And now they believe Americans are dumb enough to believe this all happened afresh since Jan. 20. Fucking amazing.

Ignorance isn't so amazing...

quote:

The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act (GLBA), also known as the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999, (Pub.L. 106-102, 113 Stat. 1338, enacted November 12, 1999) is an act of the 106th United States Congress (1999-2001) which repealed part of the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933,

The House passed its version of the Financial Services Act of 1999 on July 1st by a bipartisan vote of 343-86 (|Republicans 205–16; Democrats 138–69; Independent/Socialist 0–1),[3] [4] [5] two months after the Senate had already passed its version of the bill on May 6th by a much-narrower 54–44 vote along basically-partisan lines (53 Republicans and one Democrat in favor; 44 Democrats opposed.

Who was President in 1999?

Of course it was a Republican controlled Congress right? Not one with a filibuster proof majority like now that can't change this Administration's failure to date; but a 5 member plurality in the Senate and 20 seats in the House was a majority. The signature on the bank deregulation Bill was whom?

You must be very blissful.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 12/31/2009 10:44:44 AM >

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 33

RE: The GOP's Ugly 2010 Campaign: Pushing the Obacalypse - 12/31/2009 10:50:55 AM

Musicmystery

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Joined: 3/14/2005
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And Bush rushed in to fix that, right? Oh, er......oops.

And there's the rest of the list. Point was, and is, this didn't all happen starting Jan. 20. Thanks for confirming that.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 34

RE: The GOP's Ugly 2010 Campaign: Pushing the Obacalypse - 12/31/2009 10:57:58 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
And Bush rushed in to fix that, right? Oh, er......oops.

And there's the rest of the list. Point was, and is, this didn't all happen starting Jan. 20. Thanks for confirming that.

No - I only confirmed you were wrong.

The fact that Obama is following in the footsteps of Bush's incompetency is obvious and didn't need confirming for me.

You?

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 35

RE: The GOP's Ugly 2010 Campaign: Pushing the Obacalypse - 12/31/2009 11:03:33 AM

Musicmystery

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Joined: 3/14/2005
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Learn to read. I made no claim regarding current competence.

I did point out the rather obvious point that these problems existed prior to Jan. 20.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 36

RE: The GOP's Ugly 2010 Campaign: Pushing the Obacalypse - 12/31/2009 11:18:58 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Learn to read. I made no claim regarding current competence.

I did point out the rather obvious point that these problems existed prior to Jan. 20.

quote:

They spent the Bush years deregulating banks,

Obviously I read, and assimilate information much better than you. If you did, you'd know and appreciate that the Banks were deregulated before Bush took office. Your agenda, or ignorance of the facts, needed to point to Bush. Maybe you can get treatment for that fixation.

Was there any argument made by anyone saying these problems didn't exist prior to January 20th? The "GOP's ugly 2010 Campaign" that is the topic isn't a result of those problems not existing. It is a consequence of the problems getting worse, not better, since January 20, 2009. How that can happen considering the political party make-up of Congress speaks to incompetency of the people elected to address those problems more than the problems themselves. Although unlike you, I'm not naive enough to assign blame at the representatives in Congress. The are only serving their paymasters - the 'special interests' PACS.

Whether Obama and the filibuster proof houses of Congress want to accept it or not; throwing up their hands and saying we can't fix all these things, is not acceptable to many. The number of those feeling disenfranchised, and disappointed grow every day. Noted - You are an obvious exception.

As far as reading goes; I suggest you try reading something that you can't head bob along with dogma being preached.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 37

RE: The GOP's Ugly 2010 Campaign: Pushing the Obacalypse - 12/31/2009 11:28:07 AM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

Fixation? It's the national anthem of Mercland.

The OP shared a campaign that claims all this happened since Jan. 20. It didn't. What came before? Eight years of Bush. Sure, we can go back to the 90s if you like--plenty of poor decisions there too.

Instead of agreeing that you clearly agree, you're back to Mercland strawman sculpture. You're misrepresenting the campaign's quotes in the OP. Go back and read. You're misrepresenting my words as well, including inventing positions I don't hold, as usual. As usual! You like to talk to imaginary people, not real ones with real views.

Now, if you were able to stay with reality (and if the campaign were too), and note that while inherited, the administration and the congress should have done X, Y, Z, but instead did A, B, C, fine. If you were able to construct an argument that here's the direction we should take, fine. If you were able to look at any position I actually hold, instead of inventing them--as you've done again just above--conversation could happen.

And you wonder why people put you on ignore. It's because you're a child crying for attention, not a poster discussing the issues of the day.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 38

RE: The GOP's Ugly 2010 Campaign: Pushing the Obacalypse - 12/31/2009 12:04:27 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

And you wonder why people put you on ignore. It's because you're a child crying for attention, not a poster discussing the issues of the day.

I'm wondering? It makes me smile to think that you and others are sharing notes about putting me on ignore. Do you do that at recess or exchange notes in homeroom?

However, you are projecting again. I can help with a therapist if you'd like. Only a child can't handle criticism or worse need to put their fingers in their ears and cover their eyes to avoid it. I am not a pedophile and have no desire to waste my time with such an insecure and immature individual. I'm grateful to those 'children' who have me on ignore and appreciate them no longer wasting my time.

Obviously you have problem when it's pointed out your are flat wrong. Your religious belief in global warming, Bush being President in 1999 when the Bank Reform Act was passed; are two that come to mind.

Unfortunately for you, you don't have the ability to argue on points of fact and need to delve into the fantasy belief that requires you to make up another world (speaking of childish), 'Merc-land' in this case, (and I LOVE the attention you give me BTW) to try and distract from your short comings.

I've provided ample alternative position to what this Administration and Congress have attempted.

quote:

If you were able to look at any position I actually hold, instead of inventing them

This last exchange a textbook example - Bush wasn't the President deregulating Banks, or to quote you; "They spent the Bush years deregulating banks." The paranoid reference to the every present "they" stands on it's own. The fundamental premise of it being a Bush initiative - flat out wrong. However it does provide a great example of your agenda, prejudice, naiveté, and ignorance of facts. Similar to the results of this Administration - I didn't have anything do to with their failure. I didn't "invent" that fact about you coming to light.

Feel free to cover your eyes, put your fingers in your ears, and sing loudly if that reality bothers you.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 12/31/2009 12:26:39 PM >

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 39

RE: The GOP's Ugly 2010 Campaign: Pushing the Obacalypse - 12/31/2009 12:22:14 PM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

Careful Merc, one of 'ems got an imaginary Master Su-Shi who will make you bow at the waist for such arrogance.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 40

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