RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman

RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Mistress

Message

LadyAngelika -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/3/2010 8:14:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady I admit that I have only skimmed the entire thread, but honestly, I don't see this as a one sided issue. I believe the OP and many posts to come saw it as a multifaceted issues. Perhaps you would enjoy reading the thread :-) quote: The real issue is whether or not there is a need to constantly worry about such things as whether or not something is "over-fetishized" or if it even qualifies as a "fetish." Constantly worry, no. I agree. And thankfully I have so many other things to worry about to keep me distracted ;-) However, over 260 posts and over 4000 views in 4 days kind of has me thinking it's an issue that others find this issue as concerning as I do. - LA

ElanSubdued -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/3/2010 8:20:56 PM)
LA, --- However, over 260 posts and over 4000 views --- in 4 days kind of has me thinking it's an issue that --- others find this issue as concerning as I do. Actually, I'm just here for the feet and the shoes. Many lovely feet and pairs on display! begin: light bulb moment Objectify the shoes, not the woman. So does this mean if all the boys start hanging out/fetishizing the isles at Aldo, all the dommes will be happy? :-) end: light bulb moment Elan.

LadyAngelika -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/3/2010 8:22:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued LA, --- However, over 260 posts and over 4000 views --- in 4 days kind of has me thinking it's an issue that --- others find this issue as concerning as I do. Actually, I'm just here for the shoes. Many lovely feet and pairs on display. Elan. Elan! You can be a bad boy on the wanker threads but not on these serious ones! Are you trying to active some sort of "punish the boy for being bad" reaction in me? Hmmmmm? - LA

ElanSubdued -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/3/2010 8:31:55 PM)
Lady Angelika, --- Elan! You can be a bad boy on the wanker --- threads but not on these serious ones! Are you --- trying to active some sort of "punish the boy for --- being bad" reaction in me? Hmmmmm? It's on topic! Truly! I was still editing while you were replying. See the "light bulb" notion above. Perhaps a solution for the OP? flutters eyes ever so innocently :-) Elan.

LadyAngelika -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/3/2010 8:51:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued It's on topic! Truly! I was still editing while you were replying. See the "light bulb" notion above. Perhaps a solution for the OP? flutters eyes ever so innocently :-) Elan. Umm... "A" for effort... but No ;-) - LA

Lockit -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/3/2010 8:52:13 PM)
[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

stiv2009 -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/4/2010 12:43:19 AM)
Just to offer an alternative explanation: perhaps the reason the over-fetishization happens, is because it works and makes sense from an economic point of view. In simple terms: if I am to craft a sufficiently "personalized" response to a user's profile, then I have to take time to isolate points of common interest, develop some "hook" questions (e.g. "you mentioned this (xyz) - I also think (xyz) is interesting...but have you ever thought that maybe (xyz)?...etc.etc) and come up with original and unusual compliments. This is probably likely to take me some time (potentially up to an hour or more). However, if I were to write some generic but interesting paragraph and then copy and paste it - I could probably send up to 20 in the same time (5 minutes each for some minor personalization each). This is therefore like going to a casino and either placing one large bet, or 12 small ones. In a situation like BDSM where the connection odds seem to be long for most people, then large numbers of small bets might be more sensible than big wagers. Also, most kind of rejection is painful, but the rejection of a lovingly crafted and witty approach is likely to be greater than the rejection from a bulk approach. Given that most people's interests and preferences in others are often highly specific and usually arbitrary, it probably does not make a huge amount of sense to spend too much time on writing such an approach to someone who may have non-explicit criteria for evaluating you which means you don't have cat in hell's chance anyway. Finally, there does seem to be a large amount of boiler-plating in a lot of the Domme profiles on here. The kind of stuff I am thinking about is "My ideal submissive is proud of his desire to serve his Lady. He is alpha in his professional life but behind closed doors he defers to his mistress...Do you have those desires you have yearned for your whole life which only service to your Goddess can sate? ....Do you crave submission to a beautiful dominant woman?....I seek a service oriented sub....Your only interest is to serve your mistress...You are a refined gentleman as equally at home in the vanilla world as in.....You are the kind of guy who gets out of the bath to have a piss" etc etc (I was joking on the last requirement). However, this kind of stuff is depressingly common. And if you are a submissive guy, what can you possibly write in response to such bland and generic requirements? Not much. But then she starts talking about fetishes - and guess what - suddenly there is some specificity: whips and chains and shit. Since a basic precondition for dialog is specificity - it is not surprising what kinds of responses come forth. Therefore what I am saying is: people over-fetishize because it makes economic sense (it is quicker to write a fetishistic than a non-fetishistic introductory email)- moreover in response to many profiles, it is the only sensible topic for dialog since all the other requirements are couched in such cliched terms that meaningful exchange about them is nigh on impossible. Steve

spankyslut -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/4/2010 1:05:24 AM)
I think a common form of RL over-fetishism of the Domme is when the submissive essentially uses Her to get their fantasies fulfilled and doesn't seem to care otherwise how they treat the person on the other end of the whip. This person is very likely to pick up a new Domme before they are done using the current one, once the need for emotional reciprocation becomes overwhelming to them. This self-serving type of behavior isn't likely to promote a stable, healthy relationship, before a great deal of personal growth is achieved and the submissive thinks in a capacity beyond meeting their own needs.

LadyAngelika -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/4/2010 2:59:07 AM)
quote: Therefore what I am saying is: people over-fetishize because it makes economic sense (it is quicker to write a fetishistic than a non-fetishistic introductory email)- moreover in response to many profiles, it is the only sensible topic for dialog since all the other requirements are couched in such cliched terms that meaningful exchange about them is nigh on impossible. Interesting approach. Won't work on me. A woman can tell if a boy is courting in every direction. We have our ways... The last man who courted me had an excellent approach. He wrote to one woman and awaited a response. Then, after a while, if she didn't or it was negative, he'd try another. Eventually he saw my profile. Throughout the whole time he courted me, he turned off his profile. That spoke volumes about the quality of this man. Also, you speak of economics, let me propose the following to you. If you are a submissive man, a real good one, of high quality, then you have become a rare commodity. Consider on bettering yourself rather than spreading yourself thin. - LA

LadyAngelika -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/4/2010 3:05:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: spankyslut I think a common form of RL over-fetishism of the Domme is when the submissive essentially uses Her to get their fantasies fulfilled and doesn't seem to care otherwise how they treat the person on the other end of the whip. This person is very likely to pick up a new Domme before they are done using the current one, once the need for emotional reciprocation becomes overwhelming to them. This self-serving type of behavior isn't likely to promote a stable, healthy relationship, before a great deal of personal growth is achieved and the submissive thinks in a capacity beyond meeting their own needs. That's a pretty good summary of one of the conclusions we came up with somewhere on page 3 :-) Welcome to the boards spankyslut! Now any ideas on we can help men get through their personal growth? - LA

LadyPact -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/4/2010 6:52:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stiv2009 Finally, there does seem to be a large amount of boiler-plating in a lot of the Domme profiles on here. The kind of stuff I am thinking about is "My ideal submissive is proud of his desire to serve his Lady. He is alpha in his professional life but behind closed doors he defers to his mistress...Do you have those desires you have yearned for your whole life which only service to your Goddess can sate? ....Do you crave submission to a beautiful dominant woman?....I seek a service oriented sub....Your only interest is to serve your mistress...You are a refined gentleman as equally at home in the vanilla world as in.....You are the kind of guy who gets out of the bath to have a piss" etc etc (I was joking on the last requirement). However, this kind of stuff is depressingly common. And if you are a submissive guy, what can you possibly write in response to such bland and generic requirements? Not much. But then she starts talking about fetishes - and guess what - suddenly there is some specificity: whips and chains and shit. Since a basic precondition for dialog is specificity - it is not surprising what kinds of responses come forth. Therefore what I am saying is: people over-fetishize because it makes economic sense (it is quicker to write a fetishistic than a non-fetishistic introductory email)- moreover in response to many profiles, it is the only sensible topic for dialog since all the other requirements are couched in such cliched terms that meaningful exchange about them is nigh on impossible. Steve I'm going to have to disagree with this. In fact, we had a thread in the spring of last year that specifically addressed what you mentioned here. You can find the thread here http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=2584960&key=cap%2Cquestion and though it comes from a different angle that what you may be thinking, it goes very much to the ways you don't have to go straight to your conclusion. At the time, it was being asked what questions were the type that would be more likely to get a response from Dominant women. I'm reposting the answer that I gave on that thread here. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I wanted to be fair about this, so I went back and looked at My own profile to see what information was and wasn't contained in it. I have what I consider to be a 50/50 profile. What I mean by that is that fifty percent of it is positive and fifty percent of it is negative. The fifty percent that is negative relates to those things that are put in there so as to automatically tell people that they do not suit My needs. Examples of this are the statements that I make regarding people in other locations, that I am not interested in CDs/TV/s/TGs, etc. I do have to pause here though, and say that I do agree with aidan. No, I don't put every unacceptable situation on My profile. In My experience, there are certain hard limits that an overwhelming majority of people have. I accept them to be a given. The same holds true for moral and ethical standards. You could go out on the street today and ask 100 people if they welcome or accept dishonest people in their lives. You're not going to find many that will happily say yes. That, I also think should be a given. Back to the subject. So, I opened My own profile and while automatically excluding the questions that could be related to the 50% that is negative (because that's never a good place to start) went for the questions that are related to the 50% that is positive. Some of these are questions that I have received, and been more than happy to answer. 1. Can you tell me about events happening near you? 2. What kind of classes have you presented on? 3. What are your requirements to consider someone to be a casual play partner? 4. What type of poly do you consider yourself? 5. Why are neither your husband or your sub living with you at this time? 6. Exactly what is a Master's Cap? 7. Where were your pictures taken? 8. How often do you get to the places you mention traveling to? 9. What public clubs are the places that you usually play? 10. I'd like to ask a question regarding something you've written on the forums. Now, take that list and compare it to My profile. All of the above questions make perfect sense and even open the door to the possibility of some opportunities. (It is important to note that My profile has changed since this response was written on that thread. Number five no longer applies since My husband was deployed at that time, but is home now.) Even though two of the questions I listed in that earlier response have the word 'play' in them, I don't consider them to be fetish oriented. There's more to focus on than the activities themselves.

Andalusite -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/4/2010 8:05:37 AM)
Underumam, the comment you made about 5th grade girls seemed really inappropriate, IMHO. LA, I don't think what you describe is a bottom vs. submissive divide at all. I've had LTRs with a couple of bottom and switch men who weren't selfish, wanted to please me, were interesting to talk with about non-kink things, and so forth. Nobody wants selfish jerks, regardless of their BDSM orientation. FR to the rest of the thread, I once went out to my car dressed in an oversize t-shirt with an unshaven duck on it, sweat pants, my hair unbrushed, and no make up on(had to run out for the tow-truck first thing in the morning, and some random guy stopped to hit on me in the 15 seconds I was crossing the street to my car).[:'(] I had a few HNG-type e-mails, almost all from submissives, back when I was looking and didn't have photos up yet here. For some reason, I had very few in the same time frame from switch and dominant men here, and I don't really understand the disparity. In general, I like looking good and feeling sexy for myself and my partner. I don't mind strangers thinking I'm hot or sexy if they aren't rude or pushy in the way they express it. Complimenting me on my picture, or even paying me a compliment on my legs or some such is fine, but going into explicit detail, especially now that I'm involved with someone, isn't appropriate. I doubt that any guys are jerking off to my photo, since there are a lot that show far more skin and are more explicit, but if they are, I figure it's none of my business and I don't want to hear about it. In general, I think that it's perfectly reasonable for submissive men to be attracted to dominant women, and for any man to be attracted to women who are wearing corsets, fetish fabrics, or other alluring things. However, if they aren't involved at all with the woman/women in question, she's not likely to be happy if he contacts her just to say so, without adding anything about other aspects that are important to her. Effusive compliments and letting her know how sexy you find her is good in a relationship! However, I agree with LA that if a man always expects fetish gear, even in vanilla venues on first dates, or is seemingly uninterested in any other aspect of who she is, she'll probably get sick and tired of that pretty quickly, too.

spankyslut -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/4/2010 8:54:41 AM)
LA am I slow or what? Maybe it puts emphasis a very important point, perhaps even the most important points. To answer our question, Help them? The kind of personal growth I refer to is such that they can only come to understanding on their own. Simply put, IMO you can't help them, they have to help themselves.They will continue to use people as they see fit until they come to a realization about the net effect upon those in their sphere of influence.

LaTigresse -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/4/2010 8:59:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: spankyslut LA am I slow or what? Maybe it puts emphasis a very important point, perhaps even the most important points. To answer our question, Help them? The kind of personal growth I refer to is such that they can only come to understanding on their own. Simply put, IMO you can't help them, they have to help themselves.They will continue to use people as they see fit until they come to a realization about the net effect upon those in their sphere of influence. That is pretty much how I look at it. You can lead the horse to water but if that horse doesn't think it needs the water, it's not going to drink. Based upon what I've read, these s-types will continue to blame the dominant women in one breath and whine about being alone in the next breath. You cannot educate the willfully stupid.

LadyAngelika -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/4/2010 9:12:18 AM)
quote: LA, I don't think what you describe is a bottom vs. submissive divide at all. I've had LTRs with a couple of bottom and switch men who weren't selfish, wanted to please me, were interesting to talk with about non-kink things, and so forth. Nobody wants selfish jerks, regardless of their BDSM orientation. I've never espoused the idea that a "bottom" is less sincere than a submissive. If you don't mind, can you please direct me to the post where you got this impression so that I might perhaps see why you might have come to this conclusion. Thanks in advance. - LA

LadyAngelika -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/4/2010 9:16:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse quote: ORIGINAL: spankyslut LA am I slow or what? Maybe it puts emphasis a very important point, perhaps even the most important points. To answer our question, Help them? The kind of personal growth I refer to is such that they can only come to understanding on their own. Simply put, IMO you can't help them, they have to help themselves.They will continue to use people as they see fit until they come to a realization about the net effect upon those in their sphere of influence. That is pretty much how I look at it. You can lead the horse to water but if that horse doesn't think it needs the water, it's not going to drink. Based upon what I've read, these s-types will continue to blame the dominant women in one breath and whine about being alone in the next breath. You cannot educate the willfully stupid. Thanks for your info spankyslut, and no, I have no reason to think that you are slow. I was just pointing a fact out to you. LaTigresse, at the risk of beating a dead horse (pun intended), I am fully aware that there is no way that I can force the horse to drink. There are however some more effective ways of leading it to water. What I'm asking is if anyone has insights on what those might be. We can't change people but we can definitely inspire them. - LA

LafayetteLady -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/4/2010 9:42:59 AM)
LadyAngelika, You talk about the "images" that promote such "over-fetishization" of dominant women, but you play right into it with your own avatar. I find it odd that you are concerned about male submissives seeking the type of dominant they see in the media, but you present them with that same type of image in your avatar. Yes, you have had many views of your thread and many responses. So do osf on his threads. The point is that "fetish" is a word, nothing more, nothing less. On this and your other thread there is much talk about the "improper" use of the word, but there is more than one definition of the term, and only ONE relates to anything sexual. Sure we can debate on whether these other meanings were always the case, but typically the first definition is the one that was "original," and for "fetish" that one isn't about sex. If you were to set up a "play date" with someone are you going to meet them wearing a housecoat and slippers? I seriously doubt it. Even if you didn't deck yourself out all in leather and chains, you are going to prepare yourself to look your best. Is it over-fetishizing because when a man thinks about submitting to a woman the doesn't imagine her in flannel pajamas, curlers and cold cream on her face? My point is that if you believe that something is happening, such as the over-fetishization of dominant women, the way to attempt to correct that problem begins with yourself. Every picture on your own profile presents the same image that you say helps to cause the problem. Sure you can say that's because the "media" has made those the types of image that men want. But in the end, you are buying into the same image you want to condemn.

spankyslut -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/4/2010 9:46:30 AM)
LA - Do you hope to inspire them? Don't you think the inspiration has to come from within themselves? Changing for you is not a real change, it's a false sense of complacency. Those who are good at playing "the game" will have you blissfully unaware of just just how much they haven't changed at all. Leading them to water is a level of hand-holding that just isn't desired within my relationships. They will change because they will soon be unfulfilled operating under the same premise. The people around them will be unfulfilled, and the challenge to obtain a quality relationship will increase. Perhaps then, they will take a good long look at themselves and how they've objectified those around them and maybe not, but it has to come from within them. Not you.

LadyAngelika -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/4/2010 10:10:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady LadyAngelika, You talk about the "images" that promote such "over-fetishization" of dominant women, but you play right into it with your own avatar. I find it odd that you are concerned about male submissives seeking the type of dominant they see in the media, but you present them with that same type of image in your avatar. LafayetteLady, again, if you read the thread, then you'll see there has already been quite a bit of discussion about my avatar. I particularly like this commentary by Panda and this commentary by Elan, two men who have earned over time the reputation for being mature, well-balanced and strong submissive men. That said, you, like many, take a picture out of context. Have you read my profile? I highly doubt it. And are you of the camp of women that think that the moment I show facets of my sexuality that I should be treated like a whore? I would hope that as a strong woman you would not espouse such archaic and mysoginistic views. quote: Yes, you have had many views of your thread and many responses. So do osf on his threads. Oh come on. Really? You don't see a difference. Come LadyLafayette, surely you are brighter than this. quote: The point is that "fetish" is a word, nothing more, nothing less. On this and your other thread there is much talk about the "improper" use of the word, but there is more than one definition of the term, and only ONE relates to anything sexual. Sure we can debate on whether these other meanings were always the case, but typically the first definition is the one that was "original," and for "fetish" that one isn't about sex I offered up one definition of the word. I am always open to debating definitions. Take a look at some of my recent threads where I've actually told people that I welcome a new definition. I do prefer however when someone offers up a new definition with a soupçon less of hostility ;-) This is supposed to be an intelligent debate. quote: If you were to set up a "play date" with someone are you going to meet them wearing a housecoat and slippers? I seriously doubt it. Even if you didn't deck yourself out all in leather and chains, you are going to prepare yourself to look your best. Is it over-fetishizing because when a man thinks about submitting to a woman the doesn't imagine her in flannel pajamas, curlers and cold cream on her face? I think you are confounding over-fetishizing with sensuality. There is nothing wrong with fetishes. I wrote on another thread yesterday that I've been known to raise a level of concern when it comes to what I call the over-fetishization of something and this has been known to stir debate. But a certain degree of fetish is fine, even fun, as long as we don't lose track of the human aspect (this is a value judgement, I know, and I openly admit I have a bias). quote: My point is that if you believe that something is happening, such as the over-fetishization of dominant women, the way to attempt to correct that problem begins with yourself. Really. Me, holder of the handle "LadyAngelika" on suck sites like Collarme, is the cause of the over-fetishization of dominant women? Wow, I didn't realize I was so influential! Damn! Ok, sarcasm aside. Let me rewind to page 1... quote: To the Dommes, how do you deal with this? Does this ever discourage you? What do you do get out of that headspace? Is there anything that can be done to get a man who you think is worth the time and effort out of this headspace? To the submissive men, have you ever felt torn about this? Have you ever honestly felt you were over fetishizing a Domme? Why do you think that was? How did you work through this? If applicable, how did a Domme help you work through this? To everyone else, constructive and practical advice as well as your perspective is always welcome of course :-) Are these the words of a woman who's complaing or are these the words of a woman who is looking for solutions? quote: Every picture on your own profile presents the same image that you say helps to cause the problem. Sure you can say that's because the "media" has made those the types of image that men want. But in the end, you are buying into the same image you want to condemn. See an earlier point in the post about this. Or better yet, read the thread! I guaratee you that if you read it with an open mind, you'll be enlightened by it because there have been some fabulous responses by others. - LA

LadyAngelika -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/4/2010 10:16:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: spankyslut LA - Do you hope to inspire them? Don't you think the inspiration has to come from within themselves? Changing for you is not a real change, it's a false sense of complacency. Those who are good at playing "the game" will have you blissfully unaware of just just how much they haven't changed at all. I know some people will never change. I've given up trying to change people a long time ago. But sometimes I see a man who I feel that deep down may have a great deal of potential and a lot to give but is confused. Surely there are things that I can do to help him get through this confusion? Aren't there things that I can do to help him get over some personal hurdles? I've had friends help me. When I first started out as a dominant, I was terrified of the sadist in me. I had a good friend and mentor help me work through this and today I'm quite well balanced about my D/s side. What I was hoping to get were insights from people who have helped each other move beyond this. I'm still hopeful I might get some. Afterall, isn't the point of connecting with others in part about learning and growing as individuals? quote: Leading them to water is a level of hand-holding that just isn't desired within my relationships. They will change because they will soon be unfulfilled operating under the same premise. The people around them will be unfulfilled, and the challenge to obtain a quality relationship will increase. Perhaps then, they will take a good long look at themselves and how they've objectified those around them and maybe not, but it has to come from within them. Not you . Ok. Point well taken. And for the record, I'm not looking to play out any Pygmalion fantasy. I'm simply looking for insights on how I might help men who want to figure this out, figure this out. - LA

Page: << < prev 12 13 [14] 15 16 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875