RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman

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LaTigresse -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 9:39:18 AM)
Let's put this whole thing into perspective. On one thread we will have a dozen male submissives whining about how they cannot find their dream dominant woman. Pissing and moaning about how lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggg they've been looking and they just do not understand WHY they haven't been snatched up by the perfect ONE. They get many, intelligent and well thought out replies from perfectly wonderful dominant women. Most of which, those whining men refuse to listen to, or waste hundreds of keystrokes defending their particular 'needs' they cannot seem to get met. On this thread we have dominant women attempting to have a discussion about the over fetishization they feel from submissive men. Then we have at least one, male submissive, saying that, in essence, it is the women's fault they are overly fetishized. What I see, in reading all of these threads...........is a lot of fetish bottoms masquarading as submissive/slaves, perhaps even fooling themselves and a few, very few, submissive men that really do 'get it'. And while I am not looking for a submissive male, I try to tell them that they are awesome men and that the woman that they end up with will be blessed with a treasure. In comparison, I see a lot of dominant women that are sorting through all of these bottoms, trying to find a compatible submissive male. And a few female tops that do not necessarily want or need a submissive but an honest bottom willing to play her way. To compound things, the bottoms are communicating with the dominant women, expecting them to be tops, AND cater first and foremost to their bottom kinks with less regard to their top needs, let alone their dominant needs. And, when they find the perfect fetish top, willing to service their bottom needs, they are mortified to learn that they might have to pay for the pleasure. If these bottoms want a fetish life support, they need to stop projecting their fetish kink onto the dominant women looking for a sincere submissive male. And THAT disjointed blah blah blah, is what is driving this thread and most others.

Lockit -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 9:42:08 AM)
Says the man with a back some would die for! And those women are willing to admit it... even publically! hehe But rarely do we disrespect you Peon, for showing your back! We love your brain and personality too! It's all a package deal! Now... someone who just wants your back or just wants you because of your back... well... we know where to file that don't we? What is so hard for people to understand here? We are all a package deal and when things are out of balance... it's a problem!

LaTigresse -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 9:43:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VeryMercurial You are so cute when you are mad LaT. I refuse to take responsibility for anyone that is not under my authority. You are a cutie. ; ) Good grief! If you think I am angry then you are seriously mistaken. But thank you for thinking I am cute. I assure you I am looking quite un-cute at the moment. Bed head to the tenth degree.

PeonForHer -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 9:44:51 AM)
Lockit, I've come to realise that I'm not very good at handling compliments. So, I'll stick to saying: Thank you. You're a kind lady. As well as a lot of other things that are good.

MMercurial -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 9:53:52 AM)
quote: What I see, in reading all of these threads...........is a lot of fetish bottoms masquarading as submissive/slaves, perhaps even fooling themselves and a few, very few, submissive men that really do 'get it'. ... In comparison, I see a lot of dominant women that are sorting through all of these bottoms, trying to find a compatible submissive male. And a few female tops that do not necessarily want or need a submissive but an honest bottom willing to play her way. To compound things, the bottoms are communicating with the dominant women, expecting them to be tops, AND cater first and foremost to their bottom kinks with less regard to their top needs, let alone their dominant needs. And, when they find the perfect fetish top, willing to service their bottom needs, they are mortified to learn that they might have to pay for the pleasure. ORIGINAL: LaTigresse AMEN. AMEN. If you can't give as well as receive, you're gonna have to do SOMETHING for the person that pushes your buttons the way you like. AMEN.

SDFemDom4cuck -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 10:22:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Let's put this whole thing into perspective. On one thread we will have a dozen male submissives whining about how they cannot find their dream dominant woman. Pissing and moaning about how lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggg they've been looking and they just do not understand WHY they haven't been snatched up by the perfect ONE. They get many, intelligent and well thought out replies from perfectly wonderful dominant women. Most of which, those whining men refuse to listen to, or waste hundreds of keystrokes defending their particular 'needs' they cannot seem to get met. On this thread we have dominant women attempting to have a discussion about the over fetishization they feel from submissive men. Then we have at least one, male submissive, saying that, in essence, it is the women's fault they are overly fetishized. What I see, in reading all of these threads...........is a lot of fetish bottoms masquarading as submissive/slaves, perhaps even fooling themselves and a few, very few, submissive men that really do 'get it'. And while I am not looking for a submissive male, I try to tell them that they are awesome men and that the woman that they end up with will be blessed with a treasure. In comparison, I see a lot of dominant women that are sorting through all of these bottoms, trying to find a compatible submissive male. And a few female tops that do not necessarily want or need a submissive but an honest bottom willing to play her way. To compound things, the bottoms are communicating with the dominant women, expecting them to be tops, AND cater first and foremost to their bottom kinks with less regard to their top needs, let alone their dominant needs. And, when they find the perfect fetish top, willing to service their bottom needs, they are mortified to learn that they might have to pay for the pleasure. If these bottoms want a fetish life support, they need to stop projecting their fetish kink onto the dominant women looking for a sincere submissive male. And THAT disjointed blah blah blah, is what is driving this thread and most others. This is why I love you LaT. I bolded what really jumped out at me. That is exactly what I think the problem is for many. While there is nothing wrong with being a bottom and wanting your fetishes met....they key is to make that clear that this is all one is searching for would be far easier. Rather than the facade of being a sub and wondering why those needs aren't being met...why not just simply advertise as a bottom and find the top that fits with those needs!!!!!!!

Underumam -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 10:29:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Panting over Me, LaT. My goodness, I had no idea. LOL. (I really do hope you know that's just good natured ribbing. I am still ingesting caffeine this AM and it doesn't seem to come out right.) quote: Now here's a couple of statements that are directed at someone. Are you denying or wishing us to believe that Dommes do not use sex as a means of attracting males? Don't use sex as a means of manipulating males? Do not dress sexy with intent to entice, and so on? If so, I'll check and see if there's an extra "dose of reality pill" lying around somewhere that I can give you. As for wearing leather because "it feels good"...lol.(Lady Pact) I used to hand-craft leather and love it myself. I can assure you that if you do not intent to project a sexy image there are many patterns available for making non-enticing leather wearables. Liking the feel of leather is not a good excuse IMHO...... I'm not going to waste My time attempting to speak for all Dominant women. That's an exercise in futility. It's the very same over generalization that I think was the basis for My earlier comment and I'm not going to get into that. I can only speak from My perspective and I'm not going to try to justify everyone's thought process on the subject. Why you seem bent on the fact that I have to justify what I wear or come up with an excuse that makes you happy, I honestly don't understand. Can you just not get what I'm saying at face value? Hey, but if you want to send Me leather outfits that conform to your ideas, I'll put you in touch with My boy and you can send to your heart's content. If you can come up with a leather skirt that fits properly and isn't 'enticing' (as you use the word), it's all good. From My point of view, if I'm someplace where leather is an appropriate fashion, chances are that I don't really care who else is looking at it or what's going on in their head. The exception to this is other females who like whatever corset that I'm wearing, so that I can refer them to the person who makes them. (Her name is MsMartha on this site, btw. Ask her how many referrals I've sent her over the years.) Usually, I'm wherever I'm at for either the social factor or because it's a chance to use a variety of equipment (dungeon furniture) that I don't have at home. When it's the latter, I'm there for the S/m and it's either with clip or one of My other play partners. If I'm playing, I really don't care who else is around or what they think. Maybe that's where the dose of reality pill should come in. Believe it or not, there really are some Dominant women out there who just don't care what other people think and know that they aren't responsible for whatever it is that other people dream up in their heads. Of course there are Lady Pact, and I never inferred all Femdoms are the same. And you know that you don't have to justify anything you wear to anyone. But yet somehow there's a double standard here. Because most of the time, we submissives have to continually justify ourselves. Of course some of us are wankers, and personally, I don't see many of this type as being truly submissive. But none the less, there are many sincere male subs here, and frankly, it gets old and redundant when were so frequently referred to as sex addicts and wank-offs who care nothing about the females in our life. The problems that Femdoms and male-subs face are as old as men and women themselves..lol. I guess we still have a ways to go..Peace and Happy New Year.

LadyAngelika -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 11:02:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika *To the submissive men, have you ever felt torn about this? Have you ever honestly felt you were over fetishizing a Domme? Why do you think that was? How did you work through this? If applicable, how did a Domme help you work through this? - LA Okay LadyA, hands up, Im busted. Guilty as charged your honour. But, is it really so unexpected ? Some avatars, such as the one you are using, are dominant images. Yes it is exquisite, yes it is erotic, surely that is the whole point of it. So my initial thought, looking at an avatar like that, or a profile of a Domina with a whip, cane ect is, this Lady is dominant. You bring up an excellent point about the avatar. When I first came back to CM about a month ago, I used the avatar I had 5 years ago. It was much more loaded with harsh sexual undertones but I left it there for a while as I searched for something that was more fitting for me. I tried a few on for size but when I found this Sardax portrait, I realised that it represented so much of what I wanted. In one hand she holds his chin lovingly, in the other hand she holds a whip. That's the duality in me. I mean after all I am a Domme. This isn't the only thing I am, but it is a big part of who I am and it's best any man I'm going to get involved with knows this from the get go. quote:* As has been stated, media portrayal surely makes for stereotypes, at least for an intial perception about someone. If I see a profile of a woman holding a cane, it transports me back to school, where one had to obey the rules. It isnt a case of me fetishising, its just how it is, based on prior experiences. Gosh and I have my triggers too! Something about a man in a well tailored Italian leather suit just gets me purring. I want to grab him by the neck tie and... ok, I'll spare you all the details ;-) But it's so very, very normal. The idea is balancing it all out. quote: That said, if I want a relationship I look past that. I look to see what type of person I am interacting with. Is she honest, is she kind, does she make me laugh, are we a good match ect ect. The fact is we are all on a bdsm website, and by nature, intial perceptions will be one of dominance vs submission. By this I mean men looking for a very dominant woman, are more likely to gravitate to a very dominant photo.It seems to me that the problem is when we eroticise the clothing, persona ect, and that becomes the attraction, not the woman underneath the clothing. Maybe that is just how some, not all, submissive men are wired. I think this is tied into the maturity aspects discussed earlier in this thread. At some point, we have to look past the flashy stuff and get to the deep stuff. quote: If you take vanilla dating as an example, men are accused of being anal about looks. This isnt as suprising as it seems though. History shows us that all the things we find attractive point to one thing. A healthy partner. In days gone be this was essential for survival of the species. I could go into detail here about the ratio effect in what we consider attractive, faces ect ( its 1 to 1:6 ) IE the mouth is 1.6 times wider than the nose. I have never, ever had an issue with this and I agree with you 100%. I'm an attractive woman but I know I will not attract everyone. And that's a good thing for everyone, including me. I know from having in depth conversations with friends of mine who are painters and photographers about some of these features. It's funny how someone can totally be found attractive by someone and I'll be totally turned off by them. Being physically attracted to our partner is an absolute must. I could never imagine being in a relationship with someone I'm not physically attracted to. They don't have to be Gerry Butler (oh but wouldn't that be nice!) but I have to look at them and go yum! Of course, the yum factor will increase if I discover that deep down inside there is a man who I respect, admire and have deep compatibility with. quote: For myself, a "glance" or an "excuse me" grabs my attention just as quick as someone holding a whip ( Granted the whip probably works quicker..lol ) Either type of domination, either the soft approach or the bitch approach works with me. I think I prefer the former, although that could change. My view on the so called traditional Domina " Look " is its just that, a "Look". It isnt the person and it isnt a projection of what I am thinking. It is dominant though, and yes it is sexy. I know not all men hold my views so your experiences may differ. That's the thing, we need to get real a little bit about this. We have lives, we have jobs, I can't be in bitch mode 24/7, he can't be naked 24/7 because I live in the real world! The nice thing is when you can mix both the soft and the hard based on the mood and the timing. Just as if I were with a vanilla partner, he wouldn't expect that I put on a sexy corset and garters before every time we had sex, but would appreciate it when on special occasions I did, so goes any kind of erotic clothing. quote: What helps halt the confussion, at least those that bother with them, are threads such as this one. We can all read and learn from one another. Males and females often hold different perceptions of things and as ever, communication is the key. Which is what I was hoping for! quote: Anyhow, great question and some very insightful and helpful replies. The replies have been amazing!! - LA

LadyAngelika -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 11:04:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Underumam I'm still in shock......Women dress sexy, advertise themselves through the promotion of sexually explicit pics, suggestions and inuendo, then they chastise us for liking it. Go figure.......lol. That is not at all what any of us here in this thread said. You missed the point! - LA

mnottertail -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 11:07:57 AM)
my little bit is that women are portrayed mostly as art, not realism art, and the uber-fetishization of women is rather like the cartoon art that pervades society.... and there are some (in fact alot) of people out there that as 'connoisseurs of art' like the trashy shit and really have no appreciation of realistic art.......... Life is art. So, the masses like the surreal stuff. Somebody gotta come down to earth here. Ron

LadyPact -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 11:17:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Underumam Of course there are Lady Pact, and I never inferred all Femdoms are the same. And you know that you don't have to justify anything you wear to anyone. But yet somehow there's a double standard here. Because most of the time, we submissives have to continually justify ourselves. Of course some of us are wankers, and personally, I don't see many of this type as being truly submissive. But none the less, there are many sincere male subs here, and frankly, it gets old and redundant when were so frequently referred to as sex addicts and wank-offs who care nothing about the females in our life. The problems that Femdoms and male-subs face are as old as men and women themselves..lol. I guess we still have a ways to go..Peace and Happy New Year. For the record, I have only used the term 'sex addict' a very, very few times in darn near ten thousand posts around this place. Those rare times that I did, it was in response to someone who used the term first in describing their situation and I was replying to it. I think the last time around was in the submissive section. Also, I happen to think (I could be wrong) that I'm rather complimentary of the submissives who frequent this section regularly. I'll be the first to point out that not all submissives are quite as 'submissive' as they claim to be and some of them really would be better identified as bottoms. There really is a difference. There is also a group that, as I was saying on another thread, really just don't know yet because they don't have the experience of an actual long term dynamic with a Dominant woman. This is the group that I think (again, could be wrong) that LadyAngelika might have had in mind when she created the original. The folks that, for whatever reason, don't have the reality and are still in something of the fantasy stage and how do you sift through all of that. Some of them out there might have potential and some of them might be so focused on the other crap that they are about as submissive as My cat. Though I will admit, somebody who comes along and is mostly concerned about the leather, or the strap on, or the feet, or hundreds of other things that they put before the submission, is going to be spotted.

LadyAngelika -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 11:25:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VeryMercurial quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse So you are saying that women are responsible for how men behave. I am saying that is bullshit. Pick the hottest women I can imagine and put her right smack in front of me in the most sexually attractive dress/position/words possible and there is only ONE person responsible for how I behave towards her and it sure as hell isn't her. LaT, I am assuming you are a woman looking at other women. As a woman, how can you speak for how men think? If the two men above say that is how they think, how can you tell them HOW they think? That makes no sense to me. I am a woman, and I cannot think for men, because I am not a man. This is what is confusing me. If you are interested in research and writing on this topic, there is a boat load of literature on The Gaze. Here's a well written blurb from Wikipedia that give you an overall introduction to the concept: quote: In analysing visual culture, the concept of The Gaze (also gaze and Le regard in French) describes how the viewer gazes upon (views) the people presented and represented. As a concept of social power relations, the 1960s ascendancy of postmodern philosophy and postmodern social theory, as exposited by the intellectuals Michel Foucault (the medical gaze) and Jacques Lacan (the mirror stage gaze), popularised usage of the gaze as a term. Feminist theory developed The Gaze in describing the social power relations between women and men — how men gaze at women; how women gaze at themselves; how women gaze at other women; and the effects of these ways of seeing. Moreover, critical theorists, such as Cornel West, use the Normative Gaze concept in describing how a Euro-centric racial identity (being a white-skinned-ethnic) is an intellectual lens with which Europeans gaze at other human races as social constructs (coloured-skin-ethnics), and not as persons equal to a European. In cinema, Laura Mulvey identifies such gazes as the Male Gaze, analogously, Bracha Ettinger posits the existence of the Matrixial Gaze in Art, psychoanalysis, and French feminism. I've read Mulvey's writings and though I'm not a huge fan as she's way too highly critical of men in my opinion, basically reducing them to wankers. I'm also not aligned with second wave feminist theories that say that women conform to the interests of men when they welcome the gaze. But there are other theorists who write on the topic, but all this dates back to my undergrad studies quite some time ago. I'm also sure others have written on the topic since! - LA

LadyAngelika -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 11:41:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Let's put this whole thing into perspective. On one thread we will have a dozen male submissives whining about how they cannot find their dream dominant woman. Pissing and moaning about how lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggg they've been looking and they just do not understand WHY they haven't been snatched up by the perfect ONE. They get many, intelligent and well thought out replies from perfectly wonderful dominant women. Most of which, those whining men refuse to listen to, or waste hundreds of keystrokes defending their particular 'needs' they cannot seem to get met. On this thread we have dominant women attempting to have a discussion about the over fetishization they feel from submissive men. Then we have at least one, male submissive, saying that, in essence, it is the women's fault they are overly fetishized. What I see, in reading all of these threads...........is a lot of fetish bottoms masquarading as submissive/slaves, perhaps even fooling themselves and a few, very few, submissive men that really do 'get it'. And while I am not looking for a submissive male, I try to tell them that they are awesome men and that the woman that they end up with will be blessed with a treasure. In comparison, I see a lot of dominant women that are sorting through all of these bottoms, trying to find a compatible submissive male. And a few female tops that do not necessarily want or need a submissive but an honest bottom willing to play her way. To compound things, the bottoms are communicating with the dominant women, expecting them to be tops, AND cater first and foremost to their bottom kinks with less regard to their top needs, let alone their dominant needs. And, when they find the perfect fetish top, willing to service their bottom needs, they are mortified to learn that they might have to pay for the pleasure. If these bottoms want a fetish life support, they need to stop projecting their fetish kink onto the dominant women looking for a sincere submissive male. And THAT disjointed blah blah blah, is what is driving this thread and most others. This might be the close to the most perfect summary of exactly what is going on here. Interesting how none of it addresses love, devotion and balance... This is why I walked away from kink about 4 years ago and dated vanilla gentleman who devoted themselves to me. The problem is, I was denying my sadistic side, which oddly enough, is one of the ways I like to show my love and affection. - LA

LaTigresse -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 11:53:02 AM)
Yes. I share my home with a totally vanilla male. Yet from him there is more service and submission than what I see most s-types talking about wanting. Just in the last 24 hours. I went to work and this house was cleaned well, errands run, some of my favourite foods purchased AND the most wonderful bottle of porto. The kitchen was spotless and ready for me to cook. I cooked because I wanted to, otherwise he would have. And the food was ready for the dogs when I got home. The drive and walk was shoveled from the snowfall the night before. I had a fabulous companion for the evening and even now. The kitchen was cleaned again. The floors swept. And, no sex expected... Just a question about an hour ago, if I was okay and having a good day off. Granted, I don't get to torment a nubile female body or have kinky sex...........but this isn't something I am going to complain about either.

LadyAngelika -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 11:59:29 AM)
quote: There is also a group that, as I was saying on another thread, really just don't know yet because they don't have the experience of an actual long term dynamic with a Dominant woman. This is the group that I think (again, could be wrong) that LadyAngelika might have had in mind when she created the original. The folks that, for whatever reason, don't have the reality and are still in something of the fantasy stage and how do you sift through all of that. Some of them out there might have potential and some of them might be so focused on the other crap that they are about as submissive as My cat. You nailed it LadyPact, the group that only have submission as a fantasy and lived it in their mind. A huge part of this is the clandestine nature of WIITWD, especially for a man, to want to go from the fantasy to the reality. It might be easier to live the fantasy in his mind or with the help of porn and be wed to a "normal" vanilla girl. Some might try it and realise it isn't their cup of tea. I recently met a man who's experience was only with Pros or lifestyle Dommes who didn't want any emotional ties to him. When we met, he realised he could be very emotionally and physically attracted to me on a whole bunch of other levels that had nothing do with being a Domme. And he told me subsequently that this scared him profoundly, enough so that he didn't want to see me anymore. I knew this was different from your average "he's just not that into you" blow off. I believe he was really into me, so much so that he freaked. Essentially, after talking a few hours about all this, we both came to the realisation that he wanted to keep the desire for a Domme and the desire for a relationship compartimentalized. He knew I was a whole woman looking for a completely integrated romantic female-led relationship and didn't want to just use me to get his rocks off. For this, I hold him in high regard. Will he ever be able to reconcile the two will be up to him to decide. The question is will he find the right resources or will he take the easy route and fall back into seeing this as a fetish. I'd like to help him, but he'll have to make the first steps. - LA P.S.: LP, my cat is a fake submissive as he only becomes submissive to me when he wants affection or treats! The rest of the time, he's a greedy little dom tom cat! Talk about being a player!

AAkasha -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 12:21:33 PM)
Great thread - I have a couple of thoughts to add. For those in this thread suggesting that femdoms may invite/be aware of the way they may be treated by subs/bottoms because of the way they dress and present themselves - fine. How on earth do you explain the fact that a woman with NO photos in her profile receives dozens of sexually laced "DO ME" emails from men groveling, offering to serve and submit, describing their fantasies and posturing as a submissive/slave to a woman he has never exchanged one word with? How is he sexualizing an image she chooses to put out there, when there is NONE? How is having a profile with no photo and no words inviting/enticing these innocent submissive men who are just responding in an predictable manner? The same question above applies to the fact that even those of us with photos and words on our profile receive roughly a ratio of dozens to one of men who took the time to "view profile" before sending a "do me" email, or posturing as a slave/submissive out of the gate - without even knowing what we like or what or who we are. The "fetishization" begins even before the word "hi." Finally, if you give in to the notion that if a woman dresses up, acts, portrays herself as "dominant" then she can expect some men may approach her in this manner. Fine - but the way he responds is to his fantasy of dominance, not her individual dominance. Every submissive "come on" is laced with predictable garbage that was born, bred and reinforced through stereotypes developed BY MEN! Everything from calling a total stranger "Mistress" to offering instant meek behavior, offering to kiss feet, lowering eyes when talking instead of traditional polite eye contact ettiquette, or adding any number of things he fantasizes that a dominant woman wants, expects and needs based on -- you got it, what he read/heard/saw in femdom porn developed by MEN. Women did not develop this ideal of female dominance that became the sexual stereotype - men did. By responding to a woman who portrays a dominant image by treating her like his blow-up-fantasy-dominatrix, rather than attempting to understand how/why she identifies as dominant, is as "fail" a strategy as assuming that a woman who enjoys dressing in a provacative manner means she's as sexually arbitrary as the porn actress in the flick he saw last night, "Debbie Does Everyone" and she must be an insatiable nympho, dressing like that because she wants to have sex with any/all and can be approached as such. Her dress style and behavior may be conveying ANY number of things, and a man can't complain about the results he gets if he just automatically treats her like a whore in his fantasies. STILL - in the femdom arena, really, it's a SMALL handful of women that "invite" this dilemma through the way they dress or behave. Femdoms that dress fetishy are in the minority. I stopped going to fetish parties in full fetish gear long ago, but continued to wear my favorite fetish clothes to dance clubs. I got treated far better by vanilla guys who thought it was "hot" - sure, some fumbled and thought latex/leather = sex and wild times, but the numbers were far fewer than in a fetish environment where fetish attire = "you can treat me like your fantasy Mistress, including all your fetishes, I do them all, and if you screw up and offend me when you come onto me, it's no problem because of course you will be punished - it's a win-win!" Akasha

LadyPact -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 12:34:20 PM)
If it's not too off topic, I want to say something about these last two. Both of which I really appreciated. I can so identify with you, LaT! MP is not submissive at all. Instead, he has a method of 'the intelligent husband's way' of making Me happy. People are often surprised that he often buys Me toys that revolve around kink, or is often My escort for play events/activities and such. It boils down to the fact that he loves Me and wants Me to be happy. That's not particularly a submissive only trait. That stuff isn't just in the D/s world. It happens in loving relationships everywhere. LadyA, you're spot on about the cat, which is why I tend to use that statement. If you met the cat, I'm sure you would agree with Me. LOL. Part of what you say here is true. See, I happen to be one of those Dominant women who isn't looking for some of the things that so many say they want. I don't especially put what could be termed as a romantic component into D/s. That's not to say there isn't emotional attachment, but it isn't what most people would consider romantic as a definition. The physically sexual isn't at the front for Me either. That's why submissives who base their desire to serve on the sexual (in the majority) drive don't work for Me. (And isn't it funny that in this thread, it was easiest to do the objectification based on My picture? LOL.) I do understand the position. I'd be looking at it from the two angles of 1) how much time do you want to invest through the online method which may not satisfy the relationship desires and 2) how much time do you want to attempt to find a way through vanilla channels, especially when it comes to your sadism. I often don't envy folks who are in this position regardless of role or orientation. It seems to be a very challenging proposition.

pollux -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 12:50:53 PM)
quote: To the submissive men, have you ever felt torn about this? Have you ever honestly felt you were over fetishizing a Domme? No and no. What you're describing in the OP is a phenomenon called projection, which is the process by which a person sees characteristics of themselves in others that they don't value, don't see, or won't acknowledge (yes, I'm saying that male subs have an "inner femdom"). These characteristics find form in various fantasies and images which the person then casts about unconsciously, looking for someone who has a "hook" that will "catch" some aspect of the projection. After a while, the objectified person, being a real human being, will assert their own individuality, and the projection will "rattle" and fall off -- this is usually where the person doing the projecting loses interest and falls out of love, or whatever. The object of their fascination is a real human being, and not the embodiment of their idealized image. Disappointment sets in. Then they start looking for another person to hook their projection on, until it starts to rattle and they get disappointed again, etc. As to why this happens (over fetishization -- and Dommes are guilty of it, too, in their own way), I think the people who understand it best are Jungian psychologists like Robert Johnson, who writes about it all very eloquently in the books "He", "She" and "We". Nothing to be done about it really, except invest in the laborious and largely unpleasant task of growing up, unfortunately. quote: As a consequence of all this, I'm finding more and more that I'm having issues finding strong submissive men who understand what a naturally dominant woman is.**** (the asterisks are mine --) Perhaps you might constructively aid the process by defining what that is, to potential partners? It might cause some of the projections people have hooked onto you to rattle and fall off, and then they'd be forced to deal with you as you are, and not as who they want you to be.

LadyAngelika -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 1:24:54 PM)
quote: I do understand the position. I'd be looking at it from the two angles of 1) how much time do you want to invest through the online method which may not satisfy the relationship desires and 2) how much time do you want to attempt to find a way through vanilla channels, especially when it comes to your sadism. I often don't envy folks who are in this position regardless of role or orientation. It seems to be a very challenging proposition. Oh gosh. Welcome to my world! The reason why I use online is many fold. I'm discreet and private. These forums are actually a great way for me to talk about things in an anonymous way. My anonymity here is as much a personal need as a professional need. Also, I don't like mingling so much - I can deliver a speech in front of 10000 people without breaking a sweat because of the distance or have an intense one on one conversation but I don't do well in small groups with strangers. When I said earlier on that I almost had hives in my OP, it had nothing to do with the space, it had to do with my level of discomfort. I don't want to paint the image that I'm a socially awkward person or a snob. I just tend to have my guard up when I meet people. This works amazingly well for me in business negotiations where I've earned quite a bit of accolades. However, it doesn't go so well in social circles. There is another dimension to public events that I found a little off-putting. Here in Montreal, many of the BDSM events are tightly linked to Fetish events (it's no surprise FetLife was born here). Not to distract too much, but Montreal is very much one of the fashion hubs and you'll find even the regular clothing boutique set up their windows with Fetish inspired scenes. Now put that into perspective with my issues about the over fetishizing issues. Clash! Recently, HeadMistressJade who is a pillar of the kink community in Montreal, who I met at a FetNite a few years back, had me almost convinced to go to a local club, stating that there was a no-play lounge where people sat and chilled and talked. But the kink nights there ended a few weeks ago... I'm sure something else will come up. You are right, it's not an easy position to be in. There are many aspects of me that make the pool of potential mates smaller: my inherent dominant nature, my sadistic urges, my level of education and career (this is about men being intimidated by them), my age group (there are a lot less single people in their 30s than in there 20s) as well as I'll admit, being somewhat set in my ways. None of this however is intended to come out as a lament. It is a reflection. I have a full life and when I find this perfect match, he'll just fit right in it. I'm more concerned that some of the barriers created by the clandestine and fetish aspects of all this are stopping me from meeting some wonderful suitable suitors. And that is the crux of my OP. - LA

CougarStud -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 1:25:08 PM)
I meet any male sub that is coming to help Me do yardwork in my shorts and polo shirt. It's not like they show up in leather chaps. But then again, I just posted a pic in my profile in high heels, bra & panties to attract male subs to wrestle with. So I am feeding the beast.

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