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RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/1/2010 4:55:12 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Well then... you call it a whine or crying if you like. I called it more... directly addressing something.

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(in reply to pollux)
Profile   Post #: 141
RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/1/2010 4:55:51 PM   
SDFemDom4cuck


Posts: 2809
Joined: 5/23/2005
From: P'burgh PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Thank you for taking the time to post that. I really enjoyed it.


I'm so very glad!


quote:

ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck

LA

That happens to be one of my favorite books as well.

I've always translated it more as "time one is unable to get back but not regretted" more so than wasted. Yes spent would be closer to what I'm thinking. Perhaps invested would be a better word?


My mom used to read me this book when I was little. She read it to me a lot. I read it again as teenager and now a few times as an adult in French, and eventually in English.

As I've read it at different times in my life, I see different things in it as it's so rich. I'm not surprised some stuff would be lost in translation.

- LA


LA I read it, and a few other books as well every year about this time to get the right mindset for the year to come. I won't derail by posting them here but yes, the language or the intent behind the language often does not translate. Perhaps a bit like the language of males and females themselves does not always translate so well even though both are speaking English. It is the intent and heart behind the words themselves that does not translate so very well.

But I digress....


_____________________________

Ms Jo

She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
How glittering they shone -
And every One unbared a Nerve
Or wantoned with a Bone -

I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 142
RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/1/2010 4:56:12 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux
My point's pretty simple, really.  If you don't want to be objectified, don't emphasize the aspects of yourself that feed into objectification. 

Isn't that a bit like asking black people to "act white" so they'll be more accepted by the so-called mainstream?

I thought the whole point of this thread was to ponder the question: "How can I be a sexual being, and still be appreciated as whole person?"  Your (non)answer seems to be: "Be an asexual being, so you appreciated as less than a whole person."  I don't see how that's on point.



_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to pollux)
Profile   Post #: 143
RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/1/2010 4:59:02 PM   
SDFemDom4cuck


Posts: 2809
Joined: 5/23/2005
From: P'burgh PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux

quote:

ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck

pollux

Wow I'm really surprised by this from you...

The point may be that we would like for subs to see past the outer window dressing...whatever that may be...and see us for who we are as human beings. As Women. As Dominant Women and every other facet of who we are as people that inhabit the same little green and blue ball of dirt that you do.

I dont look at your picture and judge your abilities as a sub by how you are dressed or undressed. I get to know you as a person and evaluate your abilities at being a sub by your actions. Your appearance has little to do with who you are and what your abilities are as a sub.



You're surprised that I'm encouraging a female dominant who's complaining that she's been objectified that she might want to emphasize other aspects of her person-hood instead of the "femdom/fetish" aspect, if she expects to be treated as something other than a fetish object?

I didn't really think this was all that controversial.



While you may have read what I wrote I think that what is missing is the comprehension of what I said.


_____________________________

Ms Jo

She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
How glittering they shone -
And every One unbared a Nerve
Or wantoned with a Bone -

I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

(in reply to pollux)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/1/2010 5:01:01 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux


My point's pretty simple, really. If you don't want to be objectified, don't emphasize the aspects of yourself that feed into objectification.


Such as? Clothing? Hair style? Make-up? Perfume? What about brushing your teeth or wearing a bra? Maybe dominants should walk around barefoot in torn, dirty clothing smelling of cigarettes and days old beer just to keep from being objectified? Maybe get a tooth or two pulled just so those who are unable to help themselves will have an easier time exhibiting even a modicum of self-control?

Where should the line be drawn? Where does personal responsibility come into play and where does individual self-expression and the choice of what to wear and when to wear it fall?

I agree with you, though. Your point is very simple. Too simple. That's the problem with it. There is no standard that will please all the people all the time, so who should the dominant try to please.. the nameless, faceless masses who may or may not objectify a particular characteristic or body part .. or themselves?

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 1/1/2010 5:02:50 PM >

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to pollux)
Profile   Post #: 145
RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/1/2010 5:04:29 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

You're surprised that I'm encouraging a female dominant who's complaining that she's been objectified that she might want to emphasize other aspects of her person-hood instead of the "femdom/fetish" aspect, if she expects to be treated as something other than a fetish object?


What you (and a few other men, but certainly not all) are missing is the point of the OP. I reponded the following to you here (http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=2980370) which you might not have seen and though it's not my style to repeat things I've already written, I feel this time it is merited.

And for the record, if you look at the OP, this was not a complaint about pervy wankers. This was a thread about what creates the horny wanker (the fetishization) and why can't he get over it to be a gentleman (maturity and great role models).

Edited because I think I was unecessarily harsh.

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 1/1/2010 5:15:18 PM >

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(in reply to pollux)
Profile   Post #: 146
RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/1/2010 5:14:27 PM   
pollux


Posts: 657
Joined: 7/26/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux
My point's pretty simple, really.  If you don't want to be objectified, don't emphasize the aspects of yourself that feed into objectification. 

Isn't that a bit like asking black people to "act white" so they'll be more accepted by the so-called mainstream?


A little bit, actually, yeah.  But my point's a little more nuanced than that.  Let's say I was advising an inner-city youth about what it takes to get a decent job.  Would I advise him to go into the interview with gangsta clothes, and answer questions from the interview in slang from the hood?  It's all about what's appropriate, and what mask to wear at a given time, given what you want to achieve.

quote:

I thought the whole point of this thread was to ponder the question: "How can I be a sexual being, and still be appreciated as whole person?"  Your (non)answer seems to be: "Be an asexual being, so you appreciated as less than a whole person."  I don't see how that's on point.


Then you've missed my point, entirely.  It's all a question of timing, and what one chooses to emphasize and reveal, and when.  It's like a hyper-intelligent bikini model with an oiled set of 36DDs walking into a bar and complaining that no one wants to talk to her about nuclear physics.  If she walks in with oiled boobies bursting out of her swimsuit, she's going to be ogled.  That's not right, or wrong, or good, or bad, it just is.  If she wants to talk nuclear physics (and be taken seriously), she might need to reconsider the bikini.  And the bar. 


_____________________________

Oppressed by massive structural violence.

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 147
RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/1/2010 5:17:45 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Wow... stone age's anyone?

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No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


(in reply to pollux)
Profile   Post #: 148
RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/1/2010 5:28:05 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux
It's like a hyper-intelligent bikini model with an oiled set of 36DDs walking into a bar and complaining that no one wants to talk to her about nuclear physics. 

Have you ever dated a model?  I have... and I don't look like one.  If you look at a ridiculously attractive woman's eyes (not her chest) and ask her about her hopes, dreams and aspirations -- and barely mention she's hot -- you've got a good shot at getting her phone number.  Why?  Because it's really hard to fake it if you're interested in her mind more than her body.  Women know the difference.  Care more about who she is than how she looks, and her body might follow.

Just look at these message boards.  Most of the people on them are kinky as hell, and have widely different educational backgrounds.  It's kind of a bar atmosphere.  Also, a lot of the women who post have smexy photos and avatars.  Which men do women flirt with more?  The guys who post things like, "Wow you have a great photo," or the guys who post things that are funny -- maybe even mild "put downs" of the women sometimes?  It's the men who treat women like human beings, instead of like bizarre alien creatures, who tend to get the attention.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to pollux)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/1/2010 5:30:38 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Wow... stone age's anyone?

Maybe you should cover up a little Lockit, something a little more like this.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/1/2010 5:32:46 PM   
seekingOwnertoo


Posts: 1323
Joined: 8/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

So because men are hungry... they aren't expected to act like adults and can just grab at anything that looks like a meal? When has hunger... sexual or otherwise given one the right to act like a beast?


Have W/we asked a different question .... if a man was soooo hungry .... wouldn't he learn to become a better hunter?

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 151
RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/1/2010 5:33:15 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		ROFL... hell, even there... someone would want up my skirt! Add glasses... and another type of fetish'er to the mix.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/1/2010 5:35:27 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo

quote:

So because men are hungry... they aren't expected to act like adults and can just grab at anything that looks like a meal? When has hunger... sexual or otherwise given one the right to act like a beast?


Have W/we asked a different question .... if a man was soooo hungry .... wouldn't he learn to become a better hunter?


LOL! One would think so... but I do believe that common sense has no place within the fantasy realm!

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


(in reply to seekingOwnertoo)
Profile   Post #: 153
RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/1/2010 5:50:12 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo

quote:

So because men are hungry... they aren't expected to act like adults and can just grab at anything that looks like a meal? When has hunger... sexual or otherwise given one the right to act like a beast?


Have W/we asked a different question .... if a man was soooo hungry .... wouldn't he learn to become a better hunter?


LOL! One would think so... but I do believe that common sense has no place within the fantasy realm!


It's like what seekingOwnertoo said many pages back, it's about the moment when they mature.

A mature hunter knows exactly how to capture what he wants. He's patient, he's skillful, has developed strategies and knows that to get the prize, it requires that he focusses his attention on only on the prize.

Why do I feel like Bambi all of a sudden? :-)

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 154
RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/1/2010 5:53:23 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		ROFL!

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/1/2010 5:56:00 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		What I find interesting is that some of the people on the forums I have found most appealing, I have never seen their face and certainly not a provocative photo.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/1/2010 5:59:49 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
Let me know who gets in the last word.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 157
RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/1/2010 6:04:14 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Let me know who gets in the last word.


I usually keep gag balls handy so that I do ;-)

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 158
RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/1/2010 6:16:51 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

task of growing up


Growing up: the world is not our easy EDEN.

To me the OP's issue is a universal one -- namely the tyranny of the superficial in dating and its trumping power over more substantive considerations.



< Message edited by cloudboy -- 1/1/2010 6:24:08 PM >

(in reply to pollux)
Profile   Post #: 159
RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/1/2010 6:44:57 PM   
pollux


Posts: 657
Joined: 7/26/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo

Have W/we asked a different question .... if a man was soooo hungry .... wouldn't he learn to become a better hunter?


Good question... And the same could easily be asked of the women here, too.

I wonder how many threads & posts we've had from female dominants bemoaning the fact that male subs aren't interested in them as human beings?  And always -- ALWAYS -- 100% of the blame lies with the men.   "Help!  My inbox is filled with email from horny wankers!"  "Help! The men I date don't see me as a whole person!"  "Help! My sub only sees me as a life-support system for their fetish!"

You'd think after a while that they might consider that the problem may not lie entirely with the men.  Heaven forfend the women turn inward for a nanosecond, and consider changing themselves, or *their* strategy.


_____________________________

Oppressed by massive structural violence.

(in reply to seekingOwnertoo)
Profile   Post #: 160
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