RE: Collars when married to others

RE: Collars when married to others (Full Version)

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BitaTruble -> RE: Collars when married to others (3/20/2006 10:11:23 PM)
quote: ....we just work better as a vanilla couple, and I like it that way and He is happy so why not?? That's all that counts! I'm happy for you. :) On another topic ::addressed to all, not directly to Sub03:: Himself was Master long before he was my husband, so we already knew that part worked. This brings up a question for me though. If you have a Master, do you go looking for a husband? It seems a husband doesn't bar one from looking for a Master, but is the reverse all that common? For Masters/Mistresses - would you be ok with your slave being in the market for a vanilla spouse? What if it took too much of their time away from serving you? Is that ok? Celeste - just curious as to what others think about this one.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Collars when married to others (3/20/2006 10:28:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble quote: ....we just work better as a vanilla couple, and I like it that way and He is happy so why not?? That's all that counts! I'm happy for you. :) On another topic ::addressed to all, not directly to Sub03:: Himself was Master long before he was my husband, so we already knew that part worked. This brings up a question for me though. If you have a Master, do you go looking for a husband? It seems a husband doesn't bar one from looking for a Master, but is the reverse all that common? For Masters/Mistresses - would you be ok with your slave being in the market for a vanilla spouse? What if it took too much of their time away from serving you? Is that ok? Celeste - just curious as to what others think about this one. Funny you should ask.... Since i will not be my Master's wife, and he is concerned that A) i may become lonely living alone, and B) i will likely outlive him due to our age difference, he has spoken of finding a suitable partner for me down the road, at some point in time, out there in the future (i'm not quite thrilled about the idea yet, can you tell?!). In such a case, however it would be a joint effort (meaning he wants my involvement but he will ultimetely approve the person), and the future partner would know that He, Master, would be the priority. Not sure i will ever marry again, however. It is feasible this partner might be another submissive who also serves him.

slavejali -> RE: Collars when married to others (3/20/2006 10:34:55 PM)
quote: It seems a husband doesn't bar one from looking for a Master, but is the reverse all that common? For Masters/Mistresses - would you be ok with your slave being in the market for a vanilla spouse? What if it took too much of their time away from serving you? Is that ok? I'm not touching this one.[:)]

ownedgirlie -> RE: Collars when married to others (3/20/2006 10:35:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsIncognito I'm sorry, but let's be realistic. The scearios are for the most part unlikely and in the unlikely even that they do happen you do what you do in any other situation - you make the best choice you can with the information you have at that time! I'm beginning to wonder if no one except me has ever found themselves in situations in day to day life where they've had to make the best choice they could with the info they had at the time. Haven't you ever had to WAIT for your master to be there for you even though you needed him NOW? Great post. Yes i indeed have had to wait for him. This is why he has taught me to reach into my internal strength and deal with things until he can assist. i have experienced severe "sub drop" (i never knew of this term until coming here) and he could not be there. This was the impetus for teaching me to rely on myself if necessary, until he could provide what was needed. i have had occasion to go without aftercare, and have lived to tell about it. i don't recommend doing that a lot (!) but it has happened and i got through it. It doesn't mean he cares about me any less, nor do i take it as such. Like you said, i have also crawled into my own little hole until he could come pull me out. He always comes though, whether in my time frame or not. And that is the important thing when all is said and done.

kyraofMists -> RE: Collars when married to others (3/21/2006 4:44:42 AM)
Wow; this was a busy thread. Here are my thoughts on this topic and they are not directed at any one person but at the topic as a whole... What I see, is that we are discussing two very different thought processes, a monogamous thought process and an open and/or poly thought process. These two are very different from each other in certain aspects and neither is right or wrong as a whole, but they are what works for the individuals. It would be inaccurate to use one thought process and think that you could understand how someone using the other thought process thinks, feels or the value they place on themselves. I could not use my poly mind set and think that I would understand how a person with a monogamous mind set would feel in any given situation, just as it is equally impossible for someone to use a monogamous mind set to understand how someone who is poly would feel in a situation. Coming into the relationship with my Lord and alandra, I had quite a bit of monogamous thought process that I had to change and get rid of. What this thread has shown me is how very successful I have been at doing that. I can no more understand how a monogamous person feels and values themselves in their relationship than they can understand how I feel and value myself in my relationships. It would be very inaccurate for someone to presume that I think I have failed because my Lord has more than one slave. When in actuality, I think I have succeeded because have not attempted to be something I am not and we are all happier and healthier for it. Knight's kyra

MsIncognito -> RE: Collars when married to others (3/21/2006 5:17:59 AM)
quote: Well, sense I find myself single... and been single for over 10 years now.. I can't very well answer your question. But I can add this... depending on the situation.. of being an emergency, let me find out he didn't try to drop whatever at the drop of a hat and be there ,,,,,see how quickly he finds his ass seeking again.. instead of found. So basically he must jeopardize everything, including livelihood in order to run to your side in a crisis? Personally, I think that's a wee bit too demanding and "Me! Me! Me!" for my liking, but to each their own. Reality is that everyone runs into situations where their partner can't be right there that very second. They're not all life or death situations but they can be crises nonetheless. What matters most to me is that they are there as soon as they are able and are supportive in the ways that matter to me when they are there. Kicking someone to the curb because life got in the way (and let's face it, it does!) just doesn't even enter into the realm of possibilities for me. Chacun a son gout!

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Collars when married to others (3/21/2006 5:48:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slavejali Ok..so my point is...that I was trying to point out what I thought the OP was referring to. In each of those responses a choice had to be made, one that wouldnt arise if there was no "other", each situation would be resolved within the context and commitment of one relationship. While that PARTICULAR choice wouldn't arise, there certainly can and are other choices that arise in monogamous relationships. Monogamous people don't live in bubbles either and plenty of "perfect storm" events occur in their lives as well.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Collars when married to others (3/21/2006 5:51:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble It seems a husband doesn't bar one from looking for a Master, but is the reverse all that common? For Masters/Mistresses - would you be ok with your slave being in the market for a vanilla spouse? What if it took too much of their time away from serving you? Is that ok? Celeste - just curious as to what others think about this one. My former master encouraged me to be with others in all forms- including a vanilla boyfriend. And no, obviously if it took too much time away, that wouldn't be acceptable. But, like everything, he had goals in mind and he helped teach me how to acheive them. If he WANTS me to have relationships with others, he won't do things that prevent me from having those relationships- including managing my time to the point where I couldn't nurture those relationships as they should be. He also made sure I knew HOW to manage my time as best as possible.

Angeni -> RE: Collars when married to others (3/21/2006 5:53:46 AM)
This is not directed at anyone specifically: I married my Master. At the time of our marriage, he also had two other girls who lived with us. (true story coming up) The day I went into labor with our daughter, he was not present. He was in a hospital, 45 miles away with one of the girls. She had been in a serious car accident. So, instead of having him at my side during the birth, I had instead the other girl who lived with us. It was not until after that I learned why he had not come for the birth. It would have been nice to have him there with me, but she needed him more. Sometimes a tough choice has to be made. The important thing is that everyone involved recognizes that this possibility may arise, and be willing to deal with it when it does.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Collars when married to others (3/21/2006 6:02:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: classykindasassy Amazing. I sure got some righteous answers to my post when I posted a thread on the Poly board about being in a collared relationship with a man married to a vanilla lady. They asserted that I was stupid and wrong if I trusted HIM to be straight with me that the wife knows about me and accepts me. I have met her face to face. Well that certainly wasn't my advice- your situation was quite different being the "new girl" in the relationship AND a lot of underlying drama already going on AND your own blow-up added to the mix. At the time your responses to the advice you received included: Sensualips you got it - I had to look at my morality scenario and own it. LuckyAlbatross, you are right on the money - the drama has to go, and I have discovered what triggered me and we are in communication about that. JohnWarren, thanks for taking the time to check this out. I am looking to meet her and allay my reservations about her feelings and point of view. Not sure what has caused you to change your perspective so completely? http://www.collarchat.com/m_261141/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#261141

Mercnbeth -> RE: Collars when married to others (3/21/2006 6:42:08 AM)
Good Morning to all! A few pages back someone addressed the baiting question regarding a husband hospitalized and a Dom who wanted to play as being representative of an insensitive Dom. That's exactly as I wanted him represented. Usually a Dom is by definition demanding, sometimes to the point of insensitivity. Speaking from my perspective, it's one of those 'worse case' situations that come to mind when I consider the scenario. The focus though has been on failure. It wasn't where I was hoping the conversation would go. Although it's been a great and civil debate that seems to have a few people thinking about their lives. I'll take the fault for bringing failure into the equation, but it's how I would perceive myself. Last night beth used an example someone else brought up, which was if beth had lesbian desires I couldn't fulfill them, ergo I'd be a failure. I may fail at being a woman, but when you can't physically do something I don't assign failure. If I jumped off the cliffs of Palos Verdes, I didn't fail at flying, I succeeded in proving the laws of gravity. Where I would fail in beth's scenario would be if I did not provide her an outlet. Emotional needs, mental needs, are something else entirely. What I want to learn though is not how anyone rationalizes failure. Failure has gotten a bad rap ever since we eliminated the 'F' grade in schools. Being accused of failure seems to trigger some emotional response. I like to know how the domineering, demanding Dom, especially those that represent an 'ownership' relationship shares that ownership. It goes beyond shoe tying skills, or being a lesbian. It's a mental state of acceptance that, to this observer, seems diametrically opposed to many of the traits associated with a dominant person. The points of the people who've debated this are respected but I haven't seen any address this issue. I don't believe it's just the opportunity for a physical sensation. I observe real passion and emotion with the people involved. It's to that passion and emotion that I am speaking. And it's not particular to monogamy. Using the same example of beth needing a woman in her life, that woman would be in our life all the time. If we were sharing her with a off-site husband I wouldn't, and couldn't represent ownership. It's that conflict, that rationalization that I don't understand. Same as I don't understand a husband/wife giving up exclusivity of intimacy to a situation they are not involved. Sure, to each their own. I didn't imply any judgment. I'm comfortable in my failure at some things, I golf! One final question. Is everyone's definition of 'poly' now inclusive of those who have compartmentalized boundary defined relationships such as an non-understanding spouse? I always thought it to refer to people with complementary common partners commonly living together or coming together regularly. Should every 'cheating' spouse now just be considered 'poly'?

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Collars when married to others (3/21/2006 7:01:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth I may fail at being a woman, but when you can't physically do something I don't assign failure. Thanks for clarifying. When you said "Shoe tying like golf is a skill and yes, until he was able to do it he 'failed' at doing it" it sounded exactly like you were saying you were assigning failure, even when a 6 month old can't physically tie shoes. quote: It's that conflict, that rationalization that I don't understand. Same as I don't understand a husband/wife giving up exclusivity of intimacy to a situation they are not involved. There are things and experiences that you have wanted to give Beth- things that have made her become stronger, more confident, more fulfilled in your life together. Sometimes, the long term fulfillment of those things might mean taking away from your immedate desires, sometimes, fulfilling those specific experiences you want to give to Beth means you have to be aware and adjust to make them possible. Having a husband is just another example of this. If you felt that having a separate husband was in the best interests for beth and your relationship as a whole, you'd make damn sure that it happened. It's simply that her having a separate husband isn't something you consider important or good for the relationship. I'm sure there are many things that you require and encourage in Beth that many other masters consider pointless and that it would take away from their relationship. quote: One final question. Is everyone's definition of 'poly' now inclusive of those who have compartmentalized boundary defined relationships such as an non-understanding spouse? I always thought it to refer to people with complementary common partners commonly living together or coming together regularly. Should every 'cheating' spouse now just be considered 'poly'? I know for me, poly people can cheat. And no, poly and cheating are separate dynamics. I haven't seen someone admit in this particular thread that they are cheating.

Sensualips -> RE: Collars when married to others (3/21/2006 7:16:40 AM)
quote: I just cant see the scenarios as the same as if they played out with partner/s. Kids have to understand that there parents cant be in two places at once. Partners dont necessarily have to accept that when it comes to another partner. Actually, they do -- if they have chosen to be part of a multiple partner relationship. That is part of accepting a poly lifestyle. (I do consider having a Dom and a husband/wife a poly relationship, even if there is no sexual interaction.) If you can not accept that, then it is not a compatible situation so you don't enter into it. Unless, of course, one partner is designated as the primary and all understand that partner/relationship comes first in every single circumstance. And even in monogamous relationships a partner generally has to understand they do not always get to have their needs met at every time they would like, in the exact way they would like. Work, family, friends, and life in general tends to interfere. It is all about balance.

MrDiscipline44 -> RE: Collars when married to others (3/21/2006 7:34:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth What I want to learn though is not how anyone rationalizes failure. Failure has gotten a bad rap ever since we eliminated the 'F' grade in schools. Being accused of failure seems to trigger some emotional response. I like to know how the domineering, demanding Dom, especially those that represent an 'ownership' relationship shares that ownership. It goes beyond shoe tying skills, or being a lesbian. It's a mental state of acceptance that, to this observer, seems diametrically opposed to many of the traits associated with a dominant person. Ah, I think I see your train of thought behind the "failings" statement. Correct me if I'm correctable but you seem to see marriage as a mans ownership of his wife. So, ergo if the woman has a husband and a master, you're saying that she is owned by two men. Correct? If so, I have to say you are incorrect in your original "failures" statement. I, for one, do not share ownership of my slave and my slave does not see her husband as an owner. This was something discussed between us all and we came to understanding about. My slaves husband is a parental partner. That is the extent of their relationship. I'm not trying to be her husband, ergo I'm not failing to being her husband. Her husband is not trying to be her master so, therefore, he is not failing her there. As for this question: quote: Her husband is hospitalized, does she come to a play party with you if it was scheduled and you really wanted to go? She would do what ever I think is best for her to do. As an owner, I think you would understand this answer. I already stated which she values more when looking at her ring and her collar. But as her owner, she does look to me to make what I think are the best decisions for her. My decision is based on more variables then what you presented in you question. Why is he hospitalized? What's his diagnosis/prognosis? Where is the rest of the family? How long ago was he hospitalized? All these and probably more play a part into the decicsion of whether or not she will go to a play party. And of course there is always the question of just how much fun could she be at a play party if she was emotionally distraught?

Mercnbeth -> RE: Collars when married to others (3/21/2006 7:46:16 AM)
quote: If you felt that having a separate husband was in the best interests for beth and your relationship as a whole, you'd make damn sure that it happened. LA, Thanks for that focus. My "making it happen" would be to release her. she'd then be free to have her husband and I wouldn't have to deal with leasing her instead of owning her. "Husband" in your example is harder to assign an absolute definition than "slave/submissive". Is husband synonymous with associate child raiser, monetary source, housing? These are all material issues. Is the need material? Is is comfort level? Is it complacency? Again we are still not taking it from the part time Dom or part time husband's perspective. My black and white or pragmatic "solution" of releasing beth is the only way I could remain true to my dominant nature, my possessiveness and absolute relationship goal. The qualifier is the use of "my". It has nothing to do with our physical relationship. It's reference to the integrity, honestly, and unqualified trust we share with each other. I would have to release her because I would consider that 'worse case' of her husband hospitalized and me wanting to play. I wouldn't want to put her in that position. There is no option considering it but to release her. Yet, people represent that then can. I want to know how. Also thanks for adding that poly people can cheat. I've witnessed that dynamic and in those situations the hurt is just as intense as in an one-on-one relationship. I also don't think that seeking others because you are not fulfilled by your spouse should be rationalized by calling yourself 'poly'.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Collars when married to others (3/21/2006 7:53:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth There is no option considering it but to release her. Yet, people represent that then can. I want to know how. I know for my ex owner it was because he wanted me to, he felt it would help me grow, he felt it would be the right thing for myself and our relationship and take us where he wanted in the long term. For the dynamics that he wanted in his life, it fit perfectly. All a matter of priorities and focus. quote: I also don't think that seeking others because you are not fulfilled by your spouse should be rationalized by calling yourself 'poly'. I agree with that, however understanding that one is not fulfilled by a vanilla monogamous marriage and coming to a mutual decision that becoming poly and intimate with other person is not the same thing as rationalizing. It could be growing and becoming fulfilled.

thetammyjo -> RE: Collars when married to others (3/21/2006 9:01:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble On another topic ::addressed to all, not directly to Sub03:: Himself was Master long before he was my husband, so we already knew that part worked. This brings up a question for me though. If you have a Master, do you go looking for a husband? It seems a husband doesn't bar one from looking for a Master, but is the reverse all that common? For Masters/Mistresses - would you be ok with your slave being in the market for a vanilla spouse? What if it took too much of their time away from serving you? Is that ok? Celeste - just curious as to what others think about this one. Actually when I own someone (or am just training them) I encourage them to date others and to scene with others. I mean, I may not be what is best for them and I consider part of my job as the dominant to be helping the other become the best they can be. Fox does some scening with some gay and bi rubber men in knows and has a few kinky friends but he isn't interested in a vanilla relationship with anything and tells me he isn't interested in any other women either. He might change his mind down the line. I'm be a huge hypocrite if I had other partners but said he couldn't and I try very hard not to be a hypocrite.

justatoy2 -> RE: Collars when married to others (3/21/2006 9:37:44 AM)
Ok i have to post since this question does relate directly to my own situation. Quickly i will say, i am married to a submissive man. Wonderful man, wonderful father, doesn't fufill all my needs, etc. I also have a Dom..wonderful man. All parties involved are fully aware of each other, have met etc. Is it possible for me to love two men at the same time? absolutely. I love them in different ways. The relationship is different. Am i fully commited to my Dom? yes i am. In every way i possibly can be. He understands my limitations because of my commitment to my family and accepts that. It doesn't make our relationship any less of a D/s relationship because i can't serve him everyday. It doesn't make our bond any less because im married to another man. It certainly makes it challenging. Here is in important fact. I am not collared to my Dom. Its been over a year, and we have just begun to talk about what being collared would mean to us. Why have i waited so long? Because i feel so strongly about what a collar means, that i didn't feel emotionaly i was ready to make that kind of commitment. Would my husband understand a collar? yes he would we have discussed it many times. As far as the questions about if someone was in a car crash...ect..it has been understood from the beginning that my family comes first. As much as i may want to be there for him, my family and children will always come first. And some may disagree with this, but as my husband is the father of my children, he would have to come first. My dom understands this and accepts this. But it doesn't mean i am any less committed to him. I hope this helps some.

truesub4u -> RE: Collars when married to others (3/21/2006 10:35:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsIncognito So basically he must jeopardize everything, including livelihood in order to run to your side in a crisis? Personally, I think that's a wee bit too demanding and "Me! Me! Me!" for my liking, but to each their own. Reality is that everyone runs into situations where their partner can't be right there that very second. They're not all life or death situations but they can be crises nonetheless. What matters most to me is that they are there as soon as they are able and are supportive in the ways that matter to me when they are there. Kicking someone to the curb because life got in the way (and let's face it, it does!) just doesn't even enter into the realm of possibilities for me. Chacun a son gout! OK So should I do the same for him? If it seem so hard to think that he should be with me in my crisis.. why should I be there for his crisis? Would he not expect the same out of me? To drop what I am doing and come be with him, comfort him, be there for him. Vanilla or M/s, it's not all that much of a difference when one is going through a crisis, we would like to have the one we call our own there with us. So when you start balking.. about being too demmanding.. and it sounding too much like ME! ME! ME! Put that shoe on the other foot. It doesn't matter who was were when what happens. It's painful to know that when you needed somone, the one you call your own, your life... was down the road, for what ever reason. And one maybe able to forgive, but one never forgets. Off topic... Damn I got my 3 rd paddle... and evil at same time.... lol

Mercnbeth -> RE: Collars when married to others (3/21/2006 10:36:28 AM)
Mr. D-44, Thanks for your response. I don't equate marriage with ownership, however I equate the vows stated at the time of marriage to a M/s commitment, contract, or vows. On that level the marriage vows represent a similar commitment to the vows a Master and slave take on when formalizing their relationship. I would pose the question to the perspective slave why and how she would treat her vow to me, not legally recognized, compared to the one she took with her husband. It could germinate a seed of doubt regarding her commitment under any circumstance, especially when she wasn't residing in my home. I'm grateful that didn't have to deal with a similar situation; although during the search process their were plenty of opportunities. I'll again repeat, this isn't about a play partner, these thoughts concern the contemplation or the structure of an ongoing relationship complete with emotions and mental commitments. quote: If so, I have to say you are incorrect in your original "failures" statement. I, for one, do not share ownership of my slave and my slave does not see her husband as an owner. This was something discussed between us all and we came to understanding about. My slaves husband is a parental partner.(emphasis added) The "parental partner" aspect is, I suspect, common. Next in line are economic, medical, and just plain old complacency. I've already posted how I'd deal with the hospital situation. Contemplating that decision I wouldn't put myself in a position to make it and the many others that I'm sure come up routinely. I respect that you have to and do. I would feel that the process of having to make this type of decision, inclusive of consideration of someone other than your slave, contrary to your original representation of your slave having a "full commitment to me"'; but I see the thought process. I didn't see reference to it in your posts, and since it was interjected into the debate; do you consider yourself and/or the relationship with your slave 'poly'? Does your slave, her husband, or your life-partner? Can poly be differentiated from an "open" marriage?

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