Heat released by the industrial revolution directly causes global warming.

Heat released by the industrial revolution directly causes global warming. (Full Version)

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Brain -> Heat released by the industrial revolution directly causes global warming. (1/4/2010 7:39:33 PM)
Interesting article. As I understand it, the actual heat released by the industrial revolution is a major factor in global warming. While the atmosphere may have gained heat, most of the heat is absorbed by the ground, ocean, and ice melting. It is a waste of effort to sequester carbon or utilize nuclear energy for generating energy thinking that it will reduce global warming significantly. Heat released by the industrial revolution directly causes global warming. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090713085248.htm

Sanity -> RE: Heat released by the industrial revolution directly causes global warming. (1/4/2010 7:46:13 PM)
Probably a good thing too. Check out these links from DRUDGE: Winter Could Be Worst in 25 Years for USA... CHILL MAP... 3 Deaths Due To Cold in Memphis... PAPER: GAS SUPPLIES RUNNING OUT IN UK... Vermont sets 'all-time record for one snowstorm'... Iowa temps 'a solid 30 degrees below normal'... Seoul buried in heaviest snowfall in 70 years... Historic ice build-up shuts down NJ nuclear power plant... Beijing -- coldest in 40 years... Miami shivers from coldest weather in decade...

sappatoti -> RE: Heat released by the industrial revolution directly causes global warming. (1/4/2010 8:16:17 PM)
Don't need to read any reports from Drudge to know that it's quite cold (for Florida standards ) outside tonight. My local area is expected to get down to 25 F ambient, 15 F with the wind chill. I'm from upstate NY originally so the cold isn't bothering me so much as it is the natives. However, this type of cold is expected for at least another four nights after tonight... something that hasn't happened in these parts in over 12 years (per one local TV station).

asyouwish72 -> RE: Heat released by the industrial revolution directly causes global warming. (1/4/2010 8:35:22 PM)
Wow. How'd that get past peer review? Does this journal even do peer review? Let's see... from publicly available sources: Total present-day annual energy consumption per year(by far the highest ever): 510^20 joules (thanks, BP) Incident solar energy flux to earth = 174 petawatts (10^15 watts... that's a lot of watts) 1 watt = 1 joule/second 365 24 * 60 60 seconds/year = 3.1510^7 seconds/year so... Incident solar energy/year = about 5.5 * 10^24 joules All human energy consumption NOW is less than 1/10,000th of the incident solar energy. Not all of that consumption is heat, a lot of it goes to push around trucks/ships/airplanes etc as work- heat is most often just a waste product to be minimized. In the fairly recent past, human energy consumption was very much less, so the 'cumulative effect' since the industrial revolution is consequently very much smaller than these figures (modest as the are) would suggest. The heat we generate is not the issue- small changes to the earth's radiative balance are. That's why the uninhabited poles are the places showing the most rapid warming- they are the places where the earth typically has the most negative radiative balance (more energy going out than coming in... it's the loss term that greenhouse gasses change slightly). If it was just heat from combustion, the places with the highest population densities would be the epicenters of warming. If these guys are legit, I'd like to know what they are smoking.

pahunkboy -> RE: Heat released by the industrial revolution directly causes global warming. (1/5/2010 12:00:14 AM)
Episode - "Global Cooling Machine" This video is from a company named Agion and stars Florence Henderson, a hamster named Fluffy and a wacky cast that keeps getting revoltingly sick from the microbes in their home. It was shot on the original set of the '70's sitcom that made Florence famous. www.ThatsRevolting.com has even more videos! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6SDIytCaqA http://www.youtube.com/user/flovidz

popeye1250 -> RE: Heat released by the industrial revolution directly causes global warming. (1/5/2010 12:39:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brain Interesting article. As I understand it, the actual heat released by the industrial revolution is a major factor in global warming. While the atmosphere may have gained heat, most of the heat is absorbed by the ground, ocean, and ice melting. It is a waste of effort to sequester carbon or utilize nuclear energy for generating energy thinking that it will reduce global warming significantly. Heat released by the industrial revolution directly causes global warming. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090713085248.htm Hey Brain, why don't you start some posts on some other scientific things like oh,..."Bigfoot" or "Flying Saucers?"

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Heat released by the industrial revolution directly causes global warming. (1/5/2010 10:25:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: asyouwish72 Incident solar energy flux to earth = 174 petawatts (10^15 watts... that's a lot of watts) I'd imagine this constant values effect on earth warming will be based on many factors such as the earth’s tilt (how concentrated the energy is over the area), whether or not the radiant heat from the sun is directed at a land mass or a body of water (rotation of the earth), or the cloud cover to a land mass or body of water. Your comparison is a bit simplistic in these respects. Most warming effects to the earth from the sun probably come about as the result of secondary effects such as land masses radiating heat, leading to convection currents within the air. I'm not saying you are wrong just that your comparison is too simplistic as solar energy has little effect until it hits something and what heat results from that will be dependent on the properties of the material, some solar radiation will bounce straight back out into space and some will be absorbed. The earth isn't a black body so even if it is absorbed it may be radiated back out at some saturation point. [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/57911main_Earth_Energy_Budget.jpg[/img]

Hillwilliam -> RE: Heat released by the industrial revolution directly causes global warming. (1/5/2010 10:31:32 AM)
The other day, My dad was talking about what a buncha crap Global warming was. I said "Hold it..... didnt you used to tell me how when you were a kid it was colder and the snow was deeper as you walked 5 miles barefoot to school......uphill...BOTH ways"

vincentML -> RE: Heat released by the industrial revolution directly causes global warming. (1/5/2010 10:50:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam The other day, My dad was talking about what a buncha crap Global warming was. I said "Hold it..... didnt you used to tell me how when you were a kid it was colder and the snow was deeper as you walked 5 miles barefoot to school......uphill...BOTH ways" Sigh. But William, your dad lived during the Little Ice Age. It is damn cold here is south Fla and we actually have crop warnings issued for the central part of the state once again. Global warming? Bring it on. Hope we do not cycle into a second LIA. Cold kills. Heat is sweet. [sm=blasted.gif]

Arpig -> RE: Heat released by the industrial revolution directly causes global warming. (1/5/2010 11:19:47 AM)
quote: walked 5 miles barefoot to school......uphill...BOTH ways" Oddly enough, where my daughter lives is on the flood plain of the Ottawa river, and there is a ridge pretty much encircling the area, so it IS uphill both ways to her school. [:D]

Fellow -> RE: Heat released by the industrial revolution directly causes global warming. (1/5/2010 1:35:49 PM)
I agree, too much noise have been raised around the global warming issue. Also, people have difficulties with quantitative thinking. Sometimes controversial solutions are offered by scientists. For example, the British plan to plant trees to combat global warming. I like the idea to plant trees but it will definitely contribute to more global warming rather than reducing it. The right solution would be to cut trees off and paint the surface white. So, I would like to see elimination of the politics and hysteria out of the problem and to address it the way that makes sense. Albert Gore should shut up and keep quiet for a while.

breatheasone -> RE: Heat released by the industrial revolution directly causes global warming. (1/5/2010 1:37:51 PM)
i wouldn't mind a little global warming right about now....Its cold as shit here![:'(]

popeye1250 -> RE: Heat released by the industrial revolution directly causes global warming. (1/5/2010 1:50:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fellow I agree, too much noise have been raised around the global warming issue. Also, people have difficulties with quantitative thinking. Sometimes controversial solutions are offered by scientists. For example, the British plan to plant trees to combat global warming. I like the idea to plant trees but it will definitely contribute to more global warming rather than reducing it. The right solution would be to cut trees off and paint the surface white. So, I would like to see elimination of the politics and hysteria out of the problem and to address it the way that makes sense. Albert Gore should shut up and keep quiet for a while. But Fellow, you can't have a "solution" to this ..."problem"... unless it involves the extraction of hundreds of billions of dollars from the Taxpayers, the "involvement" of the "U.N." who would then "transfer" many of those Taxpayer dollars to third world countries and of course "funding" for perpetual "research" into this "problem."

Brain -> RE: Heat released by the industrial revolution directly causes global warming. (1/5/2010 2:03:40 PM)
I thought it was a pretty good article and I'm open-minded as to whether global warming is caused by man or not. I will defer to the scientific experts to decide this because they're the ones with the expertise. I think it's important, regardless whether global warming is caused by man or not; I think it's important not to pollute the planet. I don't think I want to talk about Bigfoot any more than I want to talk about professional wrestling. Finally, I just wanted to say I'm not interested in using fossil fuels anymore because I think using oil causes wars as well as pollution. quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: Brain Interesting article. As I understand it, the actual heat released by the industrial revolution is a major factor in global warming. While the atmosphere may have gained heat, most of the heat is absorbed by the ground, ocean, and ice melting. It is a waste of effort to sequester carbon or utilize nuclear energy for generating energy thinking that it will reduce global warming significantly. Heat released by the industrial revolution directly causes global warming. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090713085248.htm Hey Brain, why don't you start some posts on some other scientific things like oh,..."Bigfoot" or "Flying Saucers?"

Brain -> RE: Heat released by the industrial revolution directly causes global warming. (1/5/2010 2:17:07 PM)
I really don't understand all the numbers you presented because I'm not that scientific. But I do understand when you say how did that get past peer review. I don't know if it does review or not. It looked authentic to me and not just a bunch of rubbish. I just assumed because it was from sciencedaily and because I read sciencedaily a lot for legitimate science stories, I just assumed it was legit. I didn't think sciencedaily would put anything on their website that wasn't authentic. quote: ORIGINAL: asyouwish72 Wow. How'd that get past peer review? Does this journal even do peer review? Let's see... from publicly available sources: Total present-day annual energy consumption per year(by far the highest ever): 510^20 joules (thanks, BP) Incident solar energy flux to earth = 174 petawatts (10^15 watts... that's a lot of watts) 1 watt = 1 joule/second 365 24 * 60 60 seconds/year = 3.1510^7 seconds/year so... Incident solar energy/year = about 5.5 * 10^24 joules All human energy consumption NOW is less than 1/10,000th of the incident solar energy. Not all of that consumption is heat, a lot of it goes to push around trucks/ships/airplanes etc as work- heat is most often just a waste product to be minimized. In the fairly recent past, human energy consumption was very much less, so the 'cumulative effect' since the industrial revolution is consequently very much smaller than these figures (modest as the are) would suggest. The heat we generate is not the issue- small changes to the earth's radiative balance are. That's why the uninhabited poles are the places showing the most rapid warming- they are the places where the earth typically has the most negative radiative balance (more energy going out than coming in... it's the loss term that greenhouse gasses change slightly). If it was just heat from combustion, the places with the highest population densities would be the epicenters of warming. If these guys are legit, I'd like to know what they are smoking.

vincentML -> RE: Heat released by the industrial revolution directly causes global warming. (1/5/2010 3:15:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: asyouwish72 Wow. How'd that get past peer review? Does this journal even do peer review? Let's see... from publicly available sources: Total present-day annual energy consumption per year(by far the highest ever): 510^20 joules (thanks, BP) Incident solar energy flux to earth = 174 petawatts (10^15 watts... that's a lot of watts) 1 watt = 1 joule/second 365 24 * 60 60 seconds/year = 3.1510^7 seconds/year so... Incident solar energy/year = about 5.5 * 10^24 joules All human energy consumption NOW is less than 1/10,000th of the incident solar energy. Not all of that consumption is heat, a lot of it goes to push around trucks/ships/airplanes etc as work- heat is most often just a waste product to be minimized. In the fairly recent past, human energy consumption was very much less, so the 'cumulative effect' since the industrial revolution is consequently very much smaller than these figures (modest as the are) would suggest. The heat we generate is not the issue- small changes to the earth's radiative balance are. That's why the uninhabited poles are the places showing the most rapid warming- they are the places where the earth typically has the most negative radiative balance (more energy going out than coming in... it's the loss term that greenhouse gasses change slightly). If it was just heat from combustion, the places with the highest population densities would be the epicenters of warming. If these guys are legit, I'd like to know what they are smoking. Your comparison of incident solar energy vs human consumption seems flawed because most human consumption is fossil fuel - ancient solar energy, so it is not an apples to apples comparison. Very little, near zero current incident solar energy is in play. It comes and goes except for that captured by chlorophyll and that absorbed and converted to heat but has no industrial value. I think your last argument is far more compelling, matching the heat from industrial consumption with population centers. The counterpoint is of course that CO2 goes everywhere. Just my 2 cents.

submittous -> RE: Heat released by the industrial revolution directly causes global warming. (1/5/2010 4:02:23 PM)
What part of adding heat energy to the atmosphere disrupting normal weather patterns is confusing? Overall temperature rises but ground temperature will vary place to place, winds will be higher or lower, rain and snow will increase in some places and go down in others. Overall it is probable that there will be more storms and bigger ones than today because storms need energy and heat from the atmosphere and oceans provide it. Since we have a hell of a lot of infrastructure in place that depends on existing weather patterns the liklihood is changes will not be good for things like food production, transportation etc..... Saying 'I want more global warming because I'm cold tonite' is either a joke or a sign of not grasping how things work.

vincentML -> RE: Heat released by the industrial revolution directly causes global warming. (1/5/2010 5:02:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: submittous What part of adding heat energy to the atmosphere disrupting normal weather patterns is confusing? Overall temperature rises but ground temperature will vary place to place, winds will be higher or lower, rain and snow will increase in some places and go down in others. Overall it is probable that there will be more storms and bigger ones than today because storms need energy and heat from the atmosphere and oceans provide it. Since we have a hell of a lot of infrastructure in place that depends on existing weather patterns the liklihood is changes will not be good for things like food production, transportation etc..... Saying 'I want more global warming because I'm cold tonite' is either a joke or a sign of not grasping how things work. Firstly, is there such a thing as normal weather patterns? Overall, if there are more and greater storms will that not provide more cloud coverage, a cooling effect, and establish a new equilibrium? And will not the atmospheric heat energy be converted into kinetic energy which in turn could be utilized, if we are wise, to produce more electricity. Finally, you seem to assume that the existing infrastructure cannot be modified quickly enough to take advantage of more slowly changing climate contitions. That might very well be a faulty conclusion.

Brain -> RE: Heat released by the industrial revolution directly causes global warming. (1/5/2010 5:35:29 PM)
I'll take a look at it in the next couple of days. The main thing I'm looking for is objectivity and scientific evidence one way or the other. In any case, the bottom line for me is not polluting the planet regardless if global warming is caused by man or not, I don't want to pollute the planet when it's not necessary. Besides it would be good for the economy to get off fossil fuels and move towards a self-sustaining economy.

servantforuse -> RE: Heat released by the industrial revolution directly causes global warming. (1/6/2010 4:45:15 PM)
60 % of the U S is in a deep freeze. 28 degrees in the middle of Florida tonight. Europe and Asia, same story. Record cold. We haven't heard from Al Gore since the debacle in Copenhagen. Maybe he could send some endangered polar bears from the North pole to Orlando.

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